Catholic Church and the Bible

[MoNiCa4316]

Hi.. I was wondering, are there any good sources about how the Church put together the Bible? I mean the formation of the Bible... with quotes from the Councils or ECFs and history? I tried googling it but I want to find a good reliable source and not just someone's interpretation of what happened.

thanks

 

[InTheCloud]

Believe there is a book on how we got the Bible.

 

[DD2008]

This is the one I have:
Amazon.com: Where We Got the Bible... Our Debt to the Catholic Church: Henry G. Graham: Books

It's called, "Where we got the Bible: Our debt to the Catholic Church" by Rev Henry G Graham.

Catholic apologists love it. However it doesn't have any notes to proove where Rev Graham got his information so it still falls into that "personal opinion" thing you were talking about. But there is plenty of praise for the Roman Church and insults of the protestant traditions within. Just notice as you read that all of the credit for the bible seems to go to men...I disagree with the overall view of reality drawn by the book. However, it has received high marks within the Catholic community.

Enjoy.

David

 

[JoabAnias]

Where We Got the Bible
Same book on sale at CA under the Bible and Theology section for $10.95 (I see the whole Navarre New Testament is out in one volume for $45 too!)

Also, www.lighthousecatholicmedia.com has a good CD by Matthew Arnold that has a lot of facts called "Which Came First, The Bible or the Church?" for just a few bucks.

 

[cowboysfan1970]

From what I understand from history the Bible that we use today was taken from one found in either the fourth or fifth century from the ruins of a church in Greece. It is currently at the Vatican and is called the Codex Vaticus.

 

[copesandcandles]

The Canon of Scripture was not formally defined until the 16th Century with the Council of Trent (necessitated by Luther's quibbles) but prior to that there was a general acceptance dating right back to the earliest years of the Church.

I'm not sure there's one source, except an early codex with all thebooks we have, but just immerse yourself in the Church fathers and you'll see that the books they use are the same as us

 

[JoabAnias]

Septuagint and Catholic Bible

The Septuagint (which comes from the Latin for 70, "septuaginta") was a translation of the Hebrew Books of the Old Testament into Greek, by 70 Jewish scholars.

The translation became necessary when it was found that most of the Israelites in exile, especially as a result of the Babylonian Captivity of 586-536 B.C., did not know Hebrew, but wanted to read the sacred books.

The work was done in Alexandria, Egypt, sometime between 250 B.C. and 100 B.C.. This translation was warmly welcomed by Jews outside Palestine, as was read by many Gentiles. Consequently, many Gentiles were familiar with the important ideas in the Old Testament and were thus prepared to hear and accept the teachings of Jesus Christ.

In the early Church no list of inspired books had been accepted or approved.

Christ, and then the Apostles, did not give us a list of books which were inspired. However, the Septuagint was extremely influential among Jews living outside Palestine (and some inside Palestine), and was the sacred writings adopted by the early Greek-speaking Christians.

Throughout the New Testament there are more than 300 direct quotations or paraphrases from the Septuagint Bible out of some 350 Old Testament references. Scholars regard this as an indication that the Catholic Christian writers of the Apostolic Era had adopted the Septuagint as their own.

The Christians took the Septuagint over so completely that the Jews decided to adopt their own version. This was done about 90 A.D..

The Council of Hippo (393), the Council of Carthage (397), and Pope Innocent I (405) listed the 46 books of the Septuagint as inspired. The Catholic, Greek, Russian and other Orthodox Old Testaments are based on the Septuagint.

Vulgate

The Vulgate is the Latin version of the Bible prepared by St. Jerome (382-404), at the request of Pope St. Damasus I.

He translated the Old Testament directly from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, and revised the existing Latin text of the New Testament.

"Vulgate" means "common" or "popular", since Latin was the popular language in Europe at the time. This translation was done in a language they could understand. Very few knew how to read.

The Vulgate was used through the centuries and was declared the official Latin text of the Bible for Catholics by the Council of Trent (1545-63).

It was from the Vulgate that almost all English Catholic translations were made until the middle of the 20th century, when scholars began to use original sources.

It remained the official Latin text of the Bible for the Catholic Church until Pope John Paul II replaced it with the New Vulgate in 1979.

Catholic Christians and non-Catholic Christians believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. This belief is based on their acceptance of the fact that the Catholic Church had the authority to declare which books were inspired and should be included in the list of sacred books or "Canon", and which should not be included.

The Catholic Church knew it had this authority and guidance because:

1. "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever - the Spirit of truth" (John 14:16-17)

2. "However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, as come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13)

3. "... I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20)

4. "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" (Matthew 16:19)

5. "... it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets" (Ephesians 3:5)

6. "... the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15)

For more than 1500 years the Catholic Church has accepted and taught that these 73 books of the Bible are inspired and make up the list of sacred books.

Jesus gave His Apostles and Church the gift of the Holy Spirit when He said. "... 'Receive the Holy Spirit.'" (John 20:22).

Jesus also said, "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13).

It is impossible that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, would lead the Church in an error for 1900 years. Such a promise was made to the Church alone.

Martin Luther decided to reject that and to accept the Hebrew Bible since it did not have the 2nd Book of Maccabees which says, "It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sin." (2 Maccabees 12:46 NAB).

Luther did not agree with praying for the dead. He did not accept seven books of the Old Testament, and also did not accept these New Testament books: Hebrews, 2 John, 3 John, James, Jude, 2 Peter and Revelation. These books contained teachings which did not agree with his teaching.

Though Luthers own bible contained all the books subsequent publishers removed them based on his teaching. If one looks into the Scottish bible society one will see removals based on prejudice toward Catholic teaching which they did not want supported by scripture.

By the year 1700, however, Lutheran scholars had restored these books to the New Testament but not the Old. We must remember that Jesus promised that His Spirit would be with His Church (John 14:11-12) and that the Spirit of Truth would guide the Church into all truth (John 16:13). Paul said, "... which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15).

So the Spirit of Truth guides the Church in all truth, not an individual person.

-Writings Which the Catholic Church decided to be the "Canon" of Scripture of the New Testament through the councils of Hippo and Carthage by the end of the 4th century:

Bolded Writings which the Catholic Church decided to be the "Canon" of Scripture of the New Testament

+ Writings (existing today) which the Church decided would NOT be included in the "Canon"

* Writings (no longer in existence) which the Church decided would NOT be included in the "Canon"

GOSPELS

*Andrew
*Apelles
*Twelve Apostles
*Barnabas
*Bartholomew
*Basilides
+Birth of Mary
*Cerinthus
*Eyptians
*Ebionites
*Encratites
*Eve
*Hebrews
*Hesychius
+Infancy of Jesus Christ
+Infancy (by Thomas)
John
*Jude
*Judas Iscariot
+Lost Gospel of Peter
Luke
*Marcion
Mark
Matthew
*Matthias
*Mernthus
*Nazarenes
+Nicodemus
*Perfection
*Peter
+Philip
+The Protevangelion
*Sythianus
*Titan
*Thaddaeus
+Thomas
+Truth
* Valentinus

REVELATION

*Cerinthus
John
*Paul
*Peter
*Philip
*Stephen
*Thomas

EPISTLES

+Barnabas
*Christ (to Peter & Paul)
*Christ (produced by the Manichees)
+Clement to the Corinthians (1)
+Clement to the Corinthians (2)
Hebrews
+Herod and Pilate
+Igantius to the Ephesians
+Igantius to the Magnesians
+Igantius to the Trallians
+Igantius to the Romans
+Igantius to the Philadelphians
+Igantius to the Smyrnaeans
+Igantius to the Polycarp
James
+Jesus and Abgarus
John (1)
John (2)
John (3)
Jude
+Paul to the Laodicians
+Paul and the Seneca
Paul to Romans
Paul to the Corinthians (1)
Paul to the Corinthians (2)
Paul to the Galatians
Paul to the Ephesians
Paul to the Philippians
Paul to the Colossians
Paul to the Thessalonians (1)
Paul to the Thessalonians (2)
Paul to Timothy (1)
Paul to Timothy (2)
Paul to Titus
Paul to Philemon
Peter (1)
Peter (2)
+Polycarp to the Philippians
*Themison (the Montanist)

ACTS

*Andrew
*Apostles (by Leucius)
*Apostles (by Lentitus)
*Apostles (by Leontius)
*Apostles (by Leuthon)
Apostles (by Luke)
*Apostles (used by the Ebonites)
*Apostles (used by Manichees)
*Apostles (used by Seleucus)
*John
*Paul
*Paul and Thecla
*Peter
*Philip
*Pilate
*Thomas

BOOKS BY

*Andrew
*Christ
*The Helkesaites
+Hermas (His Visions 1)
+Hermas (His Commands 2)
+Hermas (His Similitudes 3)
*James
*John
*Lentitius
*Matthew
*Matthias
*Paul
*Thomas

OTHER

+Apostles' Creed
+The Didache
*The Doctrine of Peter
*The Judgement of Peter
*The Preaching of Paul (and Peter)
*The Preaching of Peter
*The Traditions of Matthias

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Canon
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Canon of the Old Testament
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Canon of the New Testament
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Canon Law

 

[Fish and Bread]

Lots of neat info on this thread! Thanks.

A couple of notes here:

1. Wikipedia says that 3Maccabees is in the Septuagint, but it is not in the Catholic bible. However, the list that Wikipedia provides from the Council of Carthage seems to be the current Catholic list. So, the council affirmed the modern Catholic bible in the 4th century, not the complete Septuagint, it would seem, if Wikipedia can be trusted (Which is an iffy proposition )

2. The diagrams are neat, but include the RSV Catholic Edition as Catholic and the NRSV Protestant Edition as Protestant, but don't list the NRSV Catholic Edition at all. That's an odd exclusion, since the chart sets the precedent of including an ecumenical translation in the very same line of bibles as Catholic.

 

[G-Com]

Monica, check your PM's.

 

[JoabAnias]

Lots of neat info on this thread! Thanks.

A couple of notes here:

1. Wikipedia says that 3Maccabees is in the Septuagint, but it is not in the Catholic bible. However, the list that Wikipedia provides from the Council of Carthage seems to be the current Catholic list. So, the council affirmed the modern Catholic bible in the 4th century, not the complete Septuagint, it would seem, if Wikipedia can be trusted (Which is an iffy proposition )

2. The diagrams are neat, but include the RSV Catholic Edition as Catholic and the NRSV Protestant Edition as Protestant, but don't list the NRSV Catholic Edition at all. That's an odd exclusion, since the chart sets the precedent of including an ecumenical translation in the very same line of bibles as Catholic.

You can edit wiki and fix it yourself.

Don't take the charts to the bank. I noticed that last one stopped at 1970

There are CE editions of the NAB that are little better than a paraphrase and there are oodles of RSV's out there profanely floating around.

Current info would be here: Bible Versions - Approved

Catholic versus Protestant Bibles

Bible translations developed for Catholic use are complete Bibles. This means that they contain the entire canonical text identified by Pope Damasus and the Synod of Rome (382) and the local Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397), contained in St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate translation (420), and decreed infallibly by the Ecumenical Council of Trent (1570). This canonical text contains the same 27 NT Testament books which Protestant versions contain, but 46 Old Testament books, instead of 39. These 7 books, and parts of 2 others, are called Deuterocanonical by Catholics (2nd canon) and Apocrypha (false writings) by Protestants, who dropped them at the time of the Reformation. The Deuterocanonical texts are Tobias (Tobit), Judith, Baruch, Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), Wisdom, First and Second Maccabees and parts of Esther and Daniel. Some Protestant Bibles include the "Apocrypha" as pious reading.

Catholic Study Bibles:

The St. Jerome Biblical Guild
A Basic Bibliography for Biblical Studies (many resources at these two).

Navarre,
The Navarre Bible New Testament - Compact Edition
Sacra Pagina
Ignatius study bible
Collegeville Bible Commentary New Testament Set
New Jerome Biblical Commentary