Carnivore diet and blood pressure

[trophy33]

I have had a higher blood pressure (around 150/90) my whole life, basically. Since I remember regular checks doctors measuring it (and later me measuring it at home).

I have started animal based diet (mostly meat and animal fat, some fermented goat/sheep dairy, a handful of berries a day) about a year ago.

I use common kitchen salt, but I try to balance it a bit with some potassium and magnesium added to water.

My blood pressure has been around 110/70, lately. No doctor ever advised me to do this simple change. I tried various things (green tea, fish oil, olive oil, nuts, potassium, magnesium supplements, vegetables, fruit...), but nothing worked so easily and so well like this diet.

And this is only one of many benefits I experienced since being on this diet.

 

[timewerx]

I start to get symptoms of hypotension (too low blood pressure) at rest blood pressure of 110/70.

My rest blood pressure only drop in that neighborhood with elevated levels of inflammation (usually after a bout of long, hard exercise) causing my blood vessels to dilate and my blood pressure to drop.

It doesn't happen with me anymore as my body have adapted to resist inflammation far better than before.

Due to this observation, I looked up online if consumption of red meat is causing inflammation. Search results are mixed. Some are telling me consumption of red meat is linked to higher incidence of inflammation while some says there is no link.

However, none of the search results tells that consumption of red meat reduces inflammation. None have classified red meat as "anti-inflammatory" food.

 

[trophy33]

I start to get symptoms of hypotension (too low blood pressure) at rest blood pressure of 110/70.

My rest blood pressure only drop in that neighborhood with elevated levels of inflammation (usually after a bout of long, hard exercise) causing my blood vessels to dilate and my blood pressure to drop.

It doesn't happen with me anymore as my body have adapted to resist inflammation far better than before.

Due to this observation, I looked up online if consumption of red meat is causing inflammation. Search results are mixed. Some are telling me consumption of red meat is linked to higher incidence of inflammation while some says there is no link.

However, none of the search results tells that consumption of red meat reduces inflammation. None have classified red meat as "anti-inflammatory" food.

I register no problems and no inflammation. I target to be in ketosis most of the time, too. Lower blood pressure is one of the most important things regarding the prevention of CVD.

 

[timewerx]

I register no problems and no inflammation. I target to be in ketosis most of the time, too. Lower blood pressure is one of the most important things regarding the prevention of CVD.

Good to know. Yes, less blood pressure and less visceral fat (smaller waistline).

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The only thing to watch out for....

I've said this about many of the "fad diets" (and while the carnivore diet people don't like it being called that, it's new enough that it hasn't graduated out of that category yet)... If someone's starting point is the S.A.D. (standard American diet), just about any of the fad diets are going to result in better numbers in terms of blood pressure and blood panels (as well as weight loss)

Doesn't matter if it's vegan, carnivore, paleo, pescetarian, keto, Mediterranean... you name it...

They're all cutting out a lot of the bad stuff that was in the S.A.D.

Since they're all diets of omission, they involve cutting out things that can have negative health effects, they'll all show some improvements in at least 2 or 3 of the key metrics doctors look at.


Meaning, if you're a person who's eating bacon cheeseburgers and fries, pizza, fast food chicken nuggets, and washing it down with Pepsi. Going on any one of those diets that makes you cut out a few of those things is going to be an improvement (at least in the short term)


The problem is, each of the fad diets has some "blind spots" and cognitive dissonance baked in (pun intended, lol)

In the case of the carnivore diet, I see that the in the form of cholesterol denialism, denial of the link between red meat and colorectal cancers, and the affinity for thinking that "grass fed instead of grain fed" is somehow the thing that makes all previous studies and metanalyses null and void, and for some reason, draws people into alternative medicine realms that have nothing to with a carnivore diet apart from the fact that they share the commonality of "both say to do the opposite of what mainstream doctors say"
(much like the vegan community will often have to find ways to claim their diet is the perfect human diet, while trying to rationalize the fact that they have to take B12 and iron supplements in order to stay on it long-term)

In short, if the carnivore diet is making you feel better, lose some weight, and improve a few metrics...great, but keep an eye on those LDL numbers, and if you plan on doing it long term, make sure you're getting screened for cancers of the digestive tract.



If you're into the "carnivore community", I'm sure you've heard of organizations like the Weston Price and Price-Pottinger foundation that encourages such diets. One of their evangelists (and also one of their VPs) by the name of David Getoff just died last year at age 70 of cancer.

When listening to his podcasts that were recorded in the last year of his life, it was sad. He was still trying to uphold his ideologies about his diet being the "perfect diet that historical indigenous tribes ate" and blamed his cancer on the fact that he had neglected his "liver detox regimen" (involving a bunch of nonsensical naturopathic supplements) over the previous 3 months leading up to the diagnosis. Basically, it came across as a guy who was trying to cling to his ideologies all the way to grave.

 

[timewerx]

will often have to find ways to claim their diet is the perfect human diet, while trying to rationalize the fact that they have to take B12 and iron supplements in order to stay on it long-term)

While these vitamins and minerals are good for the body, in concentrated form as supplements, they may harmful to the kidneys and liver.

A diet that requires food supplements isn't what I would see as "perfect" but rather defective, deceptive, and even dangerous. Promoters are probably making money from the supplements.

 

[trophy33]

I've said this about many of the "fad diets" (and while the carnivore diet people don't like it being called that, it's new enough that it hasn't graduated out of that category yet)...

We have been carnivores for millions of years. What is new is agriculture, todays vegetables, fruit, grains and of course industrially processed food with sugar, seed oils, colorants and preservatives.

If someone's starting point is the S.A.D. (standard American diet), just about any of the fad diets are going to result in better numbers in terms of blood pressure and blood panels (as well as weight loss)

I have tried many ways of eating, including standard European diet, vegetarian, vegetarian-keto, fitness-like etc. and this one is the easiest and most effective for me. Regarding mental health, joints health, teeth/gum health, gut health, energy, skin health, blood pressure, sleep, excellent body figure, fitness and overall health and feeling good. You can find thousands of people online witnessing the same, so its not just me.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

We have been carnivores for millions of years. What is new is agriculture, todays vegetables, fruit, grains and of course industrially processed food with sugar, seed oils, colorants and preservatives.

Slight point of correction "we" haven't been eating any particular diet for millions of years.

Modern Homo Sapiens showed up on the scene around 300,000 years ago.

To clarify, I wasn't advocating for processed food and seed oils, just pointing out that any omission diet (especially one that relies so heavily on red meat) isn't a "risk free endeavor" on a long term basis.

It should also be noted, every diet will have evangelists who swear by the diets based on some short term (as in 1-3 years) of being on the diet and feeling better in certain ways.

 

[timewerx]

We have been carnivores for millions of years. What is new is agriculture, todays vegetables, fruit, grains and of course industrially processed food with sugar, seed oils, colorants and preservatives.

I have tried many ways of eating, including standard European diet, vegetarian, vegetarian-keto, fitness-like etc. and this one is the easiest and most effective for me. Regarding mental health, joints health, teeth/gum health, gut health, energy, skin health, blood pressure, sleep, excellent body figure, fitness and overall health and feeling good. You can find thousands of people online witnessing the same, so its not just me.

The human digestive tract and teeth design seems to put us in the omnivore category. Mutational adaptation can produce far quicker adaptations in just few generations, instead of millions of years. "Epigenetics" driven by environment factors can switch genes on and off to suit a change in the environment (which may include change in nutrition) within one's lifetime. God designed our bodies with these incredible capabilities to ensure our survival even in the worst set of circumstances (including extinction-level events).

I have physically adapted to digest plant fiber in just few years for example. People normally can't digest the outer layer of corn kernels but my body have adapted/mutated to digest it.

I think my regular fasting habit with long workouts in a fasted state have fueled these rapid adaptations. It seems that adaptations happen or hastened when you push the body to the limits. Literally, "denying yourself" and "carrying your cross up a mountain" hungry and thirsty.

Why do Herbivores have Longer Small Intestine than Carnivores - CBSE Class Notes Online - Classnotes123

why is small intestine in herbivores longer than carnivores explained with reason

classnotes123.com

 

[trophy33]

The human digestive tract and teeth design seems to put us in the omnivore category. Mutational adaptation can produce far quicker adaptations in just few generations, instead of millions of years. "Epigenetics" driven by environment factors can switch genes on and off to suit a change in the environment (which may include change in nutrition) within one's lifetime. God designed our bodies with these incredible capabilities to ensure our survival even in the worst set of circumstances (including extinction-level events).

I have physically adapted to digest plant fiber in just few years for example. People normally can't digest the outer layer of corn kernels but my body have adapted/mutated to digest it.

I think my regular fasting habit with long workouts in a fasted state have fueled these rapid adaptations. It seems that adaptations happen or hastened when you push the body to the limits. Literally, "denying yourself" and "carrying your cross up a mountain" hungry and thirsty.

Why do Herbivores have Longer Small Intestine than Carnivores - CBSE Class Notes Online - Classnotes123

why is small intestine in herbivores longer than carnivores explained with reason

classnotes123.com

I have seen many various opinions about this. But the animal-based diet works best for me, so far.

It also depends on how we define omnivores. "Being able to eat both without dying quickly" is not exactly the same as "both ways are equally optimal for our health".

 

[trophy33]

Slight point of correction "we" haven't been eating any particular diet for millions of years.

Modern Homo Sapiens showed up on the scene around 300,000 years ago.

Thats right, I should rather say "our ancestors".

It should also be noted, every diet will have evangelists who swear by the diets based on some short term (as in 1-3 years) of being on the diet and feeling better in certain ways.

Thats possible. I have tried various diet and this one works best for me. It also worries me the least, regarding nutrition (because meat has been our diet for so long).
I am also interested in anti-aging and basically all important anti-aging supplements (creatine, taurine, collagen, hyaluronic acid, protein, glycine, B-vitamins...) are found mostly or only in animal products. When eating enough of meat (cca 500g a day), it provides basically the same amount which is recommended in anti-aging supplements. This all together makes sense to me that its what we are designed to eat.

However, one of the most important issues for me is the ethical one. We must take care of our animals so they do not suffer. I support the initiatives to ban cages for all animals in the whole EU and I try to buy only bio animal products or at least the products from local farms that are open to public to see what they are doing with animals. I also prefer farms that do not transport their animals between places so their stress is minimized.

 

[timewerx]

I am also interested in anti-aging and basically all important anti-aging supplements (creatine, taurine, collagen, hyaluronic acid, protein, glycine, B-vitamins...) are found mostly or only in animal products. When eating enough of meat (cca 500g a day), it provides basically the same amount which is recommended in anti-aging supplements. This all together makes sense to me that its what we are designed to eat.

I eat only 75g of sardines each day, don't take any food supplements and AI recognition estimates of my age with multiple pictures taken this year averages at 27 years old. My real age is in the mid forties.

If I use pictures from earlier than 2020, AI gives an average age estimation of 35 years old.

What happened to me after 2020 is adopting exercise and from 2023 onwards, exercise with intermittent fasting (no food and no water) and from 2024 onwards, eliminated red meat from my diet. All my meat source now is from tuna and sardines. I still have high carb diet mainly with fish, cheese, rice, white bread, corn, and peas.

Ironically, my diet this year is similar to what the disciples and Jesus ate - fish and bread and my fitness routine is similar to Christ - climbing a high mountain to pray and probably doing it in fasted state. One of my workouts is climbing stairs with elevation gain from 3,800 to 5,600 ft in just one session while in fasted state with no food nor water. This used to be a 5,500 ft elevation gain with bicycle over 70 miles in fasted state, sometimes in scorching temperatures of 110 F.

 

[trophy33]

I eat only 75g of sardines each day, don't take any food supplements and AI recognition estimates of my age with multiple pictures taken this year averages at 27 years old. My real age is in the mid forties.

If I use pictures from earlier than 2020, AI gives an average age estimation of 35 years old.

What happened to me after 2020 is adopting exercise and from 2023 onwards, exercise with intermittent fasting (no food and no water) and from 2024 onwards, eliminated red meat from my diet. All my meat source now is from tuna and sardines. I still have high carb diet mainly with fish, cheese, rice, white bread, corn, and peas.

Ironically, my diet this year is similar to what the disciples and Jesus ate - fish and bread and my fitness routine is similar to Christ - climbing a high mountain to pray and probably doing it in fasted state. One of my workouts is climbing stairs with elevation gain from 3,800 to 5,600 ft in just one session while in fasted state with no food nor water. This used to be a 5,500 ft elevation gain with bicycle over 70 miles in fasted state, sometimes in scorching temperatures of 110 F.

I am glad it works for you. However, anti-aging is not only about young looking face. Its also about the health/age of your joints, bones, heart, brain, veins, eyes, teeth, gut, liver, kidneys, hormones, mental health etc. Its a complex, whole-body issue.

 

[timewerx]

I am glad it works for you. However, anti-aging is not only about young looking face. Its also about the health/age of your joints, bones, heart, brain, veins, eyes, teeth, gut, liver, kidneys, hormones, mental health etc. Its a complex, whole-body issue.

Everything's tip top there as well. I have athletic build and conditioning with flat abs. I'm also learning to figure skate in my mid forties and I never skated my whole life. As you'll find out, figure skating requires strong bones/joints, strong muscles, good joint and muscle flexibility, and good muscle memory. I'm already 8 months into training, no trainer, no class, and thank God, no injuries.

Figure skating training have also made my bones and joints much stronger too because my joints never hurt anymore in strength training exercises.

My eyes still 20/20. Teeth still 100% all natural, 0% dental work done, never damaged and still in mint condition. Gut, I'm probably one of the few humans who can fully digest corn kernels. Metabolic hormones possibly even better now compared to my youth, brain's memory and cognitive ability is best it's ever been my whole life. Kidneys, nothing wrong with my urine at all.

Zero balding of my hair and only three strands of gray hair in my mid forties. My whole body skin still youthful despite daily exposure to sun for 1 hr and never having any skin care apart from regular soap and sponge bath.

Only my mental health is admittedly off. I have PTSD and sustained brain injury from childhood 3x. It has badly affected my ability to work with people all my life and my ability to make money and is a factor to my poverty and poverty makes the problems even worse. Ironically, my EKG readings shows low stress levels which is very strange because I don't feel good about my situation yet my stress readings is unusually low. Although it looks like my childhood brain injury is still undergoing healing even now. Things are not as bad as before and hopefully would still get better as I get older.

I actually feel stronger, faster, and healthier today than in my teens although subjectively, I definitely feel happier during my teens.

 

[trophy33]

Everything's tip top there as well. I have athletic build and conditioning with flat abs. I'm also learning to figure skate in my mid forties and I never skated my whole life. As you'll find out, figure skating requires strong bones/joints, strong muscles, good joint and muscle flexibility, and good muscle memory. I'm already 8 months into training, no trainer, no class, and thank God, no injuries.

Figure skating training have also made my bones and joints much stronger too because my joints never hurt anymore in strength training exercises.

My eyes still 20/20. Teeth still 100% all natural, 0% dental work done, never damaged and still in mint condition. Gut, I'm probably one of the few humans who can fully digest corn kernels. Metabolic hormones possibly even better now compared to my youth, brain's memory and cognitive ability is best it's ever been my whole life. Kidneys, nothing wrong with my urine at all.

Zero balding of my hair and only three strands of gray hair in my mid forties. My whole body skin still youthful despite daily exposure to sun for 1 hr and never having any skin care apart from regular soap and sponge bath.

Only my mental health is admittedly off. I have PTSD and sustained brain injury from childhood 3x. It has badly affected my ability to work with people all my life and my ability to make money and is a factor to my poverty and poverty makes the problems even worse. Ironically, my EKG readings shows low stress levels which is very strange because I don't feel good about my situation yet my stress readings is unusually low. Although it looks like my childhood brain injury is still undergoing healing even now. Things are not as bad as before and hopefully would still get better as I get older.

I actually feel stronger, faster, and healthier today than in my teens although subjectively, I definitely feel happier during my teens.

Glad to hear that most things works for you. I hope your mental health will be healed, too.

 

[FireDragon76]

The potassium and magnesium will have the greatest benefit in keeping blood pressure low. Potassium intake should ideally be higher than sodium intake.

A good source of potassium is potato. Berries also contain some minerals, such as potassium, particularly strawberries.

 

[trophy33]

The potassium and magnesium will have the greatest benefit in keeping blood pressure low. Potassium intake should ideally be higher than sodium intake.

A good source of potassium is potato. Berries also contain some minerals, such as potassium, particularly strawberries.

I was taking the supplements and eating bananas, cocoa, berries, nuts, grapefruits, drinking green tea etc before and it did not help much, still 140/80 to 150/90.

I think pistachios helped to lower my blood pressure to 120/80 sometimes, but not always, it was a bit random. And I had gut pains after eating more of them. If I remember correctly, it seemed that also garlic and onions helped, but again - they brought other problems instead.

Only when I got to keto/animal based diet, it started to have a stable, lasting effect. I suspect there are other things in play, like no added sugar intake, no allergens/pesticides/toxins and hormonal disruptors from plant foods, complete absence of seed oils or something like that. Or maybe specifically something in meat/dairy that helps, like taurine or specific kinds of fats. Or everything together.

 

[timewerx]

Or maybe specifically something in meat/dairy that helps, like taurine or specific kinds of fats. Or everything together.

I don't think dairy helps reduce blood pressure. I recently added cheese in my diet in the last couple of weeks and it had no effect on my BP.

I added cheese solely for the reason it enhanced the flavor of my meals when there's chili and often there's chili in the sardines I'm having.

 

[trophy33]

I don't think dairy helps reduce blood pressure. I recently added cheese in my diet in the last couple of weeks and it had no effect on my BP.

I added cheese solely for the reason it enhanced the flavor of my meals when there's chili and often there's chili in the sardines I'm having.

There are many kinds of cheese. And various people can have various diets and metabolic states so even the same foods can act differently in the mix, in various individuals.

 

[timewerx]

My blood pressure has been consistently 115/70 the past few weeks.

I've been eating less because it ironically, improved my exercise performance that involved lots of climbing, sprinting, and jumping (with figure skating and cycling) from weighing less. I'm still doing strength training with weight lifting and calisthenics.

I've been drinking less water too and probably because I've been eating less. I only drink when thirsty.

It's making me come to a realization that modern humans are probably eating in quantities that is vastly more than is necessary in order to be healthy - physically and mentally. I'm eating and drinking considerably less than even people who are sedentary. Everyone might be committing the sin of gluttony already without realizing it because it has become the norm in our society. This is bad from a spiritual perspective.