Canadian SC: Christian law school can't forbid students from gay sex

[essentialsaltes]

Yet the cake is actually a wedding cake designed by Jack Phillips.

I'm not seeing the relevance. His cakes don't come with a placard reading, "This is a Jack Philips cake, and his cakes only appear at events he fully endorses."

We've been told endlessly that the couple had lots of other bakeries they might have patronized. So attendees of the celebration would not be likely to connect the cake with Jack Philips. And even if they did so, identifying the source of the cake does not imply any endorsement. Those who went to my big fat atheist wedding did not assume the caterers were endorsing godless marriages.

 

[Belk]

They were asking for a wedding cake which requires a separate contract. Lets say Jack bakes the cake for their wedding celebration. By signing the contract,

I don't know what baker you are going to but the one for my wedding did not draw up a contract. He asked what cake I wanted and then I paid him money. There was no checking to ensure my wedding was one he endorsed because that was none of his business. He is a baker, not a professional endorser.

taking their money, designing the WEDDING CAKE, how is not that an endorsement according to his faith?

Since when is selling someone a product an "endorsement according to his faith"? Show me that in the bible.

 

[Sparagmos]

Of course it was about the baker not recognizing their marriage, since that is why he would not contract to provide for the celebration of it. And indeed he would be complicit in sanctioning any event marriage by agreeing to provide a costly contracted special work for the express purpose of celebrating it.

Ok, I’ll agree that for the baker, that was what the case was about.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Because it was a gay couple asking for one. Which is discrimination against a customer based on sexual orientation, which is btw against the law of Colorado.

Once again, state law against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation was contrary to the highest state law which discriminated the basis of sexual orientation by stating, as shown, "Only a union of one man and one woman shall be valid or recognized as a marriage in this state," as well as prohibiting the state and all of its subdivisions from allowing "homosexual, lesbian or bisexual orientation, conduct, practices or relationships" to provide the basis for any "claim any minority status, quota preferences, protected status or claim of discrimination."

 

[PeaceByJesus]

All snarkiness aside, what is the difference between a wedding cake for a opposite gender wedding and a same gender wedding?

What difference btwn a counterfeit and a genuine? It can be the properties that make it up, as with a diamond, or the legal status, as with a company. Both the Bible as well as state law (see above post) only recognized marriage as being btwn a man and a women. The baker was punished for doing so, as discriminating against homosexuals, as did the state constitution.

 

[Sparagmos]

I see

No, not pretty much everyone in the U.S. was a Christian at the time, which has always been a remnant, and unlike slavery for which there is some support as regulated and in historical context, homosexual marriage is nowhere supported in Scripture, but all fornication is only condemned. As is all sin.

The farthest back I could find stats for (from the consensus) was 1948 and it was 69% Protestant and 22% Catholic. Since atheism, Judaism, and other non-Christian denominations have only grown in numbers over the years I think if we were at 91% Christian in 1948, that in the time of slavery Christianity was at least as prevalent. Plus slavery was defended using the Bible, and the confederacy referred to Christianity repeatedly. There is a preponderance of evidence that Christians were involved in the slave trade, owned slaves, and defended slavery to the point of saying that God ordained it. I’m just saying people on both sides of the issue were Christians.

 

[Sparagmos]

To make sure it closes down.

That sounds pretty far fetched to me. Are you serious? Are you aware of particular instances? I know a number of gay Christians, so why wouldn’t they want to attend a Christian college?

 

[Sparagmos]

Irrelevant.

When one opens a public accomodating business, they determine which products they sell. If a business owner does not sell something as a normal course of their business, they have no obligation to provide it.

It isnt rocket science.

Actually, it does appear to be rocket science...

 

[Sparagmos]

What difference btwn a counterfeit and a genuine? It can be the properties that make it up, as with a diamond, or the legal status, as with a company. Both the Bible as well as state law (see above post) only recognized marriage as being btwn a man and a women. The baker was punished for doing so, as discriminating against homosexuals, as did the state constitution.

Can you just acknowledge that there is no actual difference in the physical cake? It’s a CAKE.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

I don't know what baker you are going to but the one for my wedding did not draw up a contract. He asked what cake I wanted and then I paid him money.

That is not the norm, which is that wedding cakes typically cost hundreds of dollars and must be contracted for well in advance, with down payment. There was a length thread in which this was documented, but as i am not corrected to my main PC i do no have it handy.

Since when is selling someone a product an "endorsement according to his faith"? Show me that in the bible.

Reducing this to merely selling a product is sophistry, for this was not that of simply not selling a product any one else could buy, but that of not consenting to contract to create a special work for the expressed purpose of celebrating that which contrary to the law of God, as well as the highest law of the state.

And legally, by knowingly facilitate something unlawful then you are complicit in it, and can share guilt, just as those who facilitate doing good should get some credit. And Scripture warns "neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure," (1 Timothy 5:22) and be selling information Judas became an accessory to murder.

 

[Sparagmos]

You seem to be saying that if I (as a goy) go into a Jewish deli and order a kosher sandwich, the sandwich magically becomes trayf and they will be unable to serve me because they only have kosher things on the menu.

Wow I think this is the winning analogy.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Can you just acknowledge that there is no actual difference in the physical cake? It’s a CAKE.

No, because a wedding cake is not just any ol cake, and if it was then it would not be such a special costly production. But while a ring can be a ring, it is what the giving of it signifies that determines its use.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

The farthest back I could find stats for (from the consensus) was 1948 and it was 69% Protestant and 22% Catholic. Since atheism, Judaism, and other non-Christian denominations have only grown in numbers over the years I think if we were at 91% Christian in 1948, that in the time of slavery Christianity was at least as prevalent. Plus slavery was defended using the Bible, and the confederacy referred to Christianity repeatedly. There is a preponderance of evidence that Christians were involved in the slave trade, owned slaves, and defended slavery to the point of saying that God ordained it. I’m just saying people on both sides of the issue were Christians.

What constitutes a Christian is not what is said in polls, or assent to a creed, while as said, Scripture does provide support (not as commanded) for its regulated form of slavery, in the context the nation was found (though the organic prima NT church sw none). But it offers no support for the "slavery" that the demonic victim-entitlement mentality effects..

But that is off topic, and i need do some computer repair.

 

[Sparagmos]

No they were contracted out given the high price of the item. So instead of a gay man coming in and buying a birthday cake for a birthday, the couple had to sit down explain what they wanted.

Ew so he would have had to sit down with the disgusting sinners. So gross...

 

[Sparagmos]

What constitutes a Christian is not what is said in polls, or assent to a creed, while as said, Scripture does provide support (not as commanded) for its regulated form of slavery, in the context the nation was found (though the organic prima NT church sw none). But it offers no support for the "slavery" that the demonic victim-entitlement mentality effects..

But that is off topic, and i need do some computer repair.

So they were’nt real Christians. Ok. No idea what your last two sentences are saying, but yes it is quite a tangent.

 

[redleghunter]

It does't matter if CO contracted same sex marriages or not, it still was illegal to discriminate on basis of sexual orientation.

But they were not discriminated based on their orientation. Jack Phillips served homosexual customers daily.

 

[redleghunter]

I'm not seeing the relevance. His cakes don't come with a placard reading, "This is a Jack Philips cake, and his cakes only appear at events he fully endorses."

We've been told endlessly that the couple had lots of other bakeries they might have patronized. So attendees of the celebration would not be likely to connect the cake with Jack Philips. And even if they did so, identifying the source of the cake does not imply any endorsement. Those who went to my big fat atheist wedding did not assume the caterers were endorsing godless marriages.

What part of the free exercise of his religion is not being understood?

Oh I know you disagree with Jack Phillips. I get that.

Perhaps you should consider that if he did support a gay wedding he would violate his conscience as he is trying to follow the precepts of his religion or faith.

 

[essentialsaltes]

But they were not discriminated based on their orientation. Jack Phillips served homosexual customers daily.

But they apparently have to order from a more limited menu than straight customers.

 

[redleghunter]

I don't know what baker you are going to but the one for my wedding did not draw up a contract.

Did you spend close to $800 for your cake? The cakes he made were custom designed.

Since he makes cakes hundreds of dollars in worth he has to contract it. Meaning get money in advance.

 

[redleghunter]

Since when is selling someone a product an "endorsement according to his faith"? Show me that in the bible.

Since when is supporting sin not in the Bible? Been that way for thousands of years.