Can we speak things into existence?

[Jim B]

Having faith when sick is putting complete trust in God that He will take care of it - no matter how He chooses to do it. I believe that the creation of Nyquil was divinely inspired, for example .

This is true (not necessarily the Nyquil part, though it does work miracles). To say “I am healed” when you are sick is more like putting your faith in your faith than in God. If I can say I am healed long enough and hard enough my faith (words) will get me through this.

But if you confess your true condition, “I am sick,” when you ask for healing you are saying, “Lord, I am needy and you are my sufficiency.” That is the proper way, I believe, to approach the Almighty for help.

\o/

 

[Ecclesiastes]

Yes, we can. I have some good quotes about this, if you want them, pm me.

 

[kidsminister]

I strongly recommend the book "Fresh Faith" by Jim Cymbala (the Brooklyn Tabernacle guy! It's a sequel to "Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire"). He has a lot of great insights into the whole issue of faith, positive confession, etc., as well as more stories about the Brooklyn Tabernacle.

 

[Ginsu]

This is true (not necessarily the Nyquil part, though it does work miracles). To say “I am healed” when you are sick is more like putting your faith in your faith than in God. If I can say I am healed long enough and hard enough my faith (words) will get me through this.

*Agrees*

 

[victoryword]

Interesting comments. I don't think "we should never deny the facts" is the correct wording.

How Andry,

I understand what you are saying but if someone says "I am not sick" then this is indeed a denial of the fact, especially if they are coughing, wheezing, sniffling, and in constant pain. I know that long before the current Charismatic Faith Movement, the 1800s Faith-Cure Movement proponents such as Maria Woodworth Etter used to call sickness "lying symptoms" in order to promote the Faith-Cure understanding of Mark 11:24.

I understand this language but it can be misleading and even taken to an extreme. Basically it can lead to lying about "lying symptoms." Kenneth Hagin Jr. sort of brings more clarity to this issue in his book, Another Look at Faith. He has a chapter titled "Faith is not Denial". Been a very long time since I read it so I cannot give you details of what he says right now. Howver, that alone speaks volumes. I believe Faith-Cure and Word-Faith MOvements taught the truth, but this truth, when not explained and properly applied, leads to extremism. It is necessary to mature in our understanding of a proper "confession of faith" to keep us from sinking into "Christian Science" or just outright lying in the name of faith.

Let me use an example: Certainly the devil is defeated (Heb. 2:14; 1 John 3:8; Col. 2:15), yet there is no denying that he still attacks us (Eph. 6:10-18; 1 Pet. 5:8-10). For me, the key is NOT to deny the devil's attack, especially on my body (and I believe that the devil is the primary source of sickness). If I am sick then I am sick. I will acknowledge the fact, especially when praying, that I am under attack.

However, my faith does not stop there. I will acknowledge that Satan has been defeated already by the blood of the lamb and give testimony to this (Rev. 12:9-11; Ps. 107:1-2). I will declare God's promises of healing. Once I have asked God to do it I will place more emphasis on the fact of Scripture rather than the fact of my circumstances.

I do not deny that a mountain is there, but I will speak to the mountain and expect a change (Mark 11:23).

Mark 11:24, 1 John 5:15, and Heb. 11:1 tells me that I can have the assurance that the very thing I have asked for is mine even before I see it. I can declare what Scripture says due to this, but I should not use this to deny physical facts.

Finally, let me leave all readers with a word from one of my favorite classic Bible teachers, A. B. Simpson. Simpson is speaking on the subject of healing and says:

It comes to us by faith. It is not the faith that heals. God heals, but faith receives it. We believe that God is healing before any evidence is given. It is to be believed as a present reality, and then ventured on. We are to act as if it were already true. God wants us to lean on Him, and trust Him, and then rejoiceand praise Him for what He has given, with no doubt or fear. (From his book, The Fourfold Gospel)

​

 

[Trish1947]

I used to suffer from hedious migraine headaches, at least 3 a week. So painful, blinding, sickening headaches I wanted to die.They we're getting so severe, that one day while leaving my job, I had to drive 42 miles to get home. I remember my husband finding me spawled across the bed lieing in my own barf, and I could not remember how I got home. I didn't remember the drive at all. Well this really scared me. I had been to dr'.s given medication, had hands laid on me, believed, with no results at all. One night I woke up with another one of those monster headaches. I was determined through what I knew about Gods word, that I was going to be healed of this. So I got a bowl that I could barf in, My Bible, turned on the light, sat in the floor and while I confessed the word, prayed, cried out to God that his word was more true than this pain. After about 3 hrs of doing this, all of a sudden, it was like warm oil being poured over my body, and the headache was gone. I was healed!!! Praise God. Never had another one.

 

[victoryword]

I used to suffer from hedious migraine headaches, at least 3 a week. So painful, blinding, sickening headaches I wanted to die.They we're getting so severe, that one day while leaving my job, I had to drive 42 miles to get home. I remember my husband finding me spawled across the bed lieing in my own barf, and I could not remember how I got home. I didn't remember the drive at all. Well this really scared me. I had been to dr'.s given medication, had hands laid on me, believed, with no results at all. One night I woke up with another one of those monster headaches. I was determined through what I knew about Gods word, that I was going to be healed of this. So I got a bowl that I could barf in, My Bible, turned on the light, sat in the floor and while I confessed the word, prayed, cried out to God that his word was more true than this pain. After about 3 hrs of doing this, all of a sudden, it was like warm oil being poured over my body, and the headache was gone. I was healed!!! Praise God. Never had another one.

Trish, that is a wonderful and powerful testimony.

 

[Andry]

I understand what you are saying but if someone says "I am not sick" then this is indeed a denial of the fact, especially if they are coughing, wheezing, sniffling, and in constant pain. I know that long before the current Charismatic Faith Movement, the 1800s Faith-Cure Movement proponents such as Maria Woodworth Etter used to call sickness "lying symptoms" in order to promote the Faith-Cure understanding of Mark 11:24.

I understand this language but it can be misleading and even taken to an extreme. Basically it can lead to lying about "lying symptoms." Kenneth Hagin Jr. sort of brings more clarity to this issue in his book, Another Look at Faith. He has a chapter titled "Faith is not Denial". Been a very long time since I read it so I cannot give you details of what he says right now. Howver, that alone speaks volumes. I believe Faith-Cure and Word-Faith MOvements taught the truth, but this truth, when not explained and properly applied, leads to extremism. It is necessary to mature in our understanding of a proper "confession of faith" to keep us from sinking into "Christian Science" or just outright lying in the name of faith.[/indent]

Victoryword,

I agree with you, and yes, read Hagin's books a while back. I know oftentimes it is very tricky to articulate the nuances of our 'confessions of faith', which can lead to extremism on either side.

My personal peeve? Sunday morning church, greeting people with the standard, 'Good morning, how are you?' And they reply, 'Bless God, I'm doing really great.' And you know they just look awful, miserable, coughing, and should be in bed. Denial or confession of faith?

 

[victoryword]

Victoryword,

I agree with you, and yes, read Hagin's books a while back. I know oftentimes it is very tricky to articulate the nuances of our 'confessions of faith', which can lead to extremism on either side.

My personal peeve? Sunday morning church, greeting people with the standard, 'Good morning, how are you?' And they reply, 'Bless God, I'm doing really great.' And you know they just look awful, miserable, coughing, and should be in bed. Denial or confession of faith?

Hehehehehehehe - Good point about the nuances and good question abou the "denial or confession" thing

I guess it's a matter of the heart. Personally though, in my own heart of hearts, if I am coughing and wheezing, I would feel like I am lying to say that I am doing great. So I wouldn't. However, this is my personal conviction. Others may truly believe that their's is a confession of faith.

With me personally (not saying people have to do what I do), I might say, "Bro/Sis, I am feeling terrible right now, but Yahweh-Rapha is my healer." Or I might say, "I don't feel to good, but the BIble says that I am healed by the stripes of Jesus."

Thankfully, the Lord has kept me in good health. Can't remember the last time I went to church coughing and wheezing. Also, even though I have faith to be healed, others may not believe as I do and if they catch the germs due to the fact that "my healing has not yet manifested ...."

Well, I think it's better to stay home with the Bible and make that confession unless the Lord Himself tells you "Get up and go to church, for I have healed thee."

God speaks in 1611 Elizabethean English to some people

 

[Trish1947]

True Victoryword, I never confessed that my headaches didn't exist. Jesus didn't die for things that dont exist. But, we overcome those things that do exist, through his Word. His word says that Jesus died for all our infirmaties. He bore all our sicknesses and diseases. We can believe that, confess that, knowing that we do have the sickness. But its a decision that I had to make, was Gods word more true to me than what I was experiancing?