Can we speak things into existence?

[joevberry3]

Can we speak things into existence?


God Bless

 

[Godz Marine]

The power of life and death are in the tongue. They overcame by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. And we cannot overlook Mark 11:22-24. Of course we receive according to our faith and who our faith is in! Out of the mouth flow the issues of the heart.

By His stripes we were healed! With long life He will satisfy us. His word concerning us will not return to Him void, unfulfilled!!!! Keep the faith my brother!!

 

[deg]

Have you ever prophesied the future?

The Lord uses us to declare the Word according to the leading of His Holy Spirit. I think that the Lord even honours and fulfills the words of His prophets, whether He has directly led them to prophesy something or not.

 

[victoryword]

Can we speak things into existence?


God Bless

Hi Joe. Good question.

It all depends on what a person means by "speaking something into existence." Early in my "faith walk" I was taught against seeing what is known today as positive confession as some sort of black magic similar to what you see on "I Dream of Jeannie" and "Bewitched." Of course some can take the teaching to such an extreme that it does seem like they are almost teaching a concept like this. However, I don't expect to say, "I confess a Mercedes in Jesus' Name" and *POOF!* - out of thin air appears a Mercedes.

However, it is clear that if I do not SPEAK in faith, whether my speaking is directed at God in prayer, man in testimony, or the devil in rebuke, then the thing that I desire from God will never come into existence. James said, ".... ye have not, because ye ask not." (James 4:2). If you are not speaking to God in expectation of receiving that which you ask for, it will NOT come into existence in our lives (James 1:5-7).


Furthermore, God plainly teaches that when we speak the "command of faith" then we are to expect the very thing we spoke to come to pass:

And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. (Mark 11:22-24)


​

I like James Murdock's version of verse 23 which says, Verily I say to you, That whoever shall say to this mountain, Be thou removed, and fall into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that what he said will occur, to him will be the thing he spoke.


Heck, I also like the Living Oracles version which says, For indeed, I say to you, Whoever shall say to this mountain, Be lifted, and thrown into the sea, and shall not in the least doubt, but shall believe that what he says shall happen; whatever he shall command, shall be done for him;

Anyway, you are to speak to those things in your lives that are not contrary to God's Word and expect what you say to come into existence. The point of prayer in the first place is bringing about something that is not there or changing something that you want changed. Furthermore, if we speak in testimony contrary to what we desire from God and what is promised in His Word, then we demonstrate a lack of faith. We violate verse 24 of Mark 11 as well as vers 15 of 1 John 5. We then should not expect to receive anything from God (James 1:5-7). So in a sense, a believer most certainly is able to "speak things into existence" and "create their own reality", if these phrases are fully qualified, explained by clear Scripture, and kept from tumbling towards black magic (or white magic) which is the devil's territory.

Also remember that Satan is NOT original. He often copies God's ideas and principles and perverts them for his own designs. What witches and warlocks do is pervert and take to a deadly extreme some principles that God laid out. When Christians see how the devil perverts things then they become afraid of the genuine. John Calvin and other so called reformers rejected the miraculous and promoted the false doctrine of cessationism in REACTION to the false miracles of the RC church. Christians are too often REACTIONARY and miss out on all that God has for us.

Satan knows how to put Christians in fear and keep them from using what God has made available to us. We should not constantly run away from certain language and phrases simply because some have either perverted it or taken the principles to an extreme. The way to react to perversions and extremes is to explain the balanced truth, not reject the truth.



We can definitely call those things that are not as though they were. If God says it is, then I will say that it is. If God says that by His stripes I am healed, then I say it as well regardless of what my body says. With that, let me leave you with this: Dr. Ken Chant, an Australian Bible Teacher wrote an excellent scholarly book on faith for a curriculum he teaches in a Bible college he started. The name of the book is Faith Dynamics. He also wrote an excellent book on prayer titled Throne Rights. In the latter book, he attempts to encourage his reader to accept the rights and privileges of the believer as seen in Eph. 2:5:

Someone will protest that to say you are enthroned when in fact you are enslaved is to tell a lie. But that is not so. You are merely supplanting one set of facts for another set of greater facts; you are changing one truth by the application of another truth ....

Likewise, nobody can deny the truth of your situation, which may be one of sin, fear, sickness, or defeat. But then, I am not suggesting that you should deny it. What you should do is replace situational truth with positional truth. Whichever one you choose to believe has power to nullify the other.

​

 

[Jim B]

Can we speak things into existence?


God Bless

No​

\o/


Ps. 19.13

 

[joevberry3]

Thanks Troy. Im actually doing a article on the power of the tongue. I just wanted to see some other thoughts.

God Bless,
Joe

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Mar 11:23
23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Mat 17:19-20
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.



Mar 9:23
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things [are] possible to him that believeth.


I cannot understand how such clear and concise words could be twisted to mean anything other than what they say. Look at the words He used... "nothing shall be impossilbe"..."all things are possible"..."he shall have whatsoever".

It is truth that we see lived out every day... be it unto you according to you faith. You have what you believe. You limit God in your life by you refusal to believe. He cannot do things in your life because you refuse to believe. Why is it so difficult to see this plain and simple truth?

Mar 6:5-6
5 He couldn't work any miracles there except to lay his hands on a few sick people and cure them.
6 Their unbelief amazed him. Then Jesus went around to the villages and taught.

 

[victoryword]

Joe and Didi

I will try to add links from my webpage to you guys webpages this week, as soon as I shake off this lethargy (interpretation: laziness). Actually I have been so busy with ministry I have had no desire to mess with my webpage in a while.

Anyway, I look forward to reading that article Joe.

Good thoughts Didi. You are absolutely right that one would have to take away the literal understanding of those passages in order to create a doctrine of unbeleif and still call it BIBLICAL. But you and I know that it has been done more often than we want to think about.

 

[Jim B]

Mar 11:23
23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Mat 17:19-20
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Mar 9:23
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things [are] possible to him that believeth.

I cannot understand how such clear and concise words could be twisted to mean anything other than what they say. Look at the words He used... "nothing shall be impossilbe"..."all things are possible"..."he shall have whatsoever".

It is truth that we see lived out every day... be it unto you according to you faith. You have what you believe. You limit God in your life by you refusal to believe. He cannot do things in your life because you refuse to believe. Why is it so difficult to see this plain and simple truth?

Mar 6:5-6
5 He couldn't work any miracles there except to lay his hands on a few sick people and cure them.
6 Their unbelief amazed him. Then Jesus went around to the villages and taught.

May I add other (conveniently overlooked) verses to your list:

1 John 5
14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

James 4
3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

James 1
6 But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord;

Proverbs 21
13 If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.

Hosea 5
5 Israel's arrogance testifies against them; the Israelites, even Ephraim, stumble in their sin; Judah also stumbles with them. 6 When they go with their flocks and herds to seek the LORD , they will not find him; he has withdrawn himself from them. 7 They are unfaithful to the LORD ; they give birth to illegitimate children. Now their New Moon festivals will devour them and their fields.

Mark 11
25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

1 Peter 3
7Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

Matthew 5
23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

1 John 3
22and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him.

Psalm 66
18 If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened;

\o/

 

[kidsminister]

The idea of a self-fulfilling prophecy is a basic psychological principle. That is, if you say you are ugly and worthless enough times, you start to believe it and live it, and pretty soon other people see you that way, too.

Of course the Bible says the same, and people have already posted verses supporting that position.

What I don't get is when some people will look at a person with a 103 degree fever, who is coughing and sneezing, whose whole body aches and say, "You aren't sick - you're healed in Jesus' name. Those are just the symptoms." No, it's the flu. And we need to go to bed, drink plenty of fluids and get better.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

May I add other (conveniently overlooked) verses to your list:

1 John 5
14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

James 4
3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

James 1
6 But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord;

Proverbs 21
13 If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.

Hosea 5
5 Israel's arrogance testifies against them; the Israelites, even Ephraim, stumble in their sin; Judah also stumbles with them. 6 When they go with their flocks and herds to seek the LORD , they will not find him; he has withdrawn himself from them. 7 They are unfaithful to the LORD ; they give birth to illegitimate children. Now their New Moon festivals will devour them and their fields.

Mark 11
25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

1 Peter 3
7Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

Matthew 5
23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

1 John 3
22and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him.

Psalm 66
18 If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened;

\o/

Nobody is ignoring these verses Jim, they work in perfectly with the concept of belief and confession. If the word of Christ abides in you then you believe. If it does not... then you do not believe. It says nothing about you as a good person or a bad person, nothing about about being faithful or unfaithful. It is just a fact. The word of Christ will only abide in you if it is His will for you to have a thing. It is His word... He puts it into the people he wants to.
People are so stuck on this idea about "having enough faith" and "only if it is His will" that they do not take the time to understand what is being said. They want to twist this into a personal issue regarding peronsal worth. It has nothing to do with any of that. It is not about you!
Of course it has to be His will... else the word would not be in you and you would not believe in the first place. You have to believe in order to speak things into existance, and you can only believe if the word of Christ regarding speaking a thing into existance abides in you. But if that word does abide in you... then YES you can speak things into existance.
I do not know how many times this has been explained to people on these boards, and yet the same people just do not get it. I have to believe it is yet another instance where people are just blinded to the simplicity of it all. Either that or people are just being stubborn and not wanting to see these simlpe truthes.... to their own hurt.

 

[victoryword]

The idea of a self-fulfilling prophecy is a basic psychological principle. That is, if you say you are ugly and worthless enough times, you start to believe it and live it, and pretty soon other people see you that way, too.

Of course the Bible says the same, and people have already posted verses supporting that position.

What I don't get is when some people will look at a person with a 103 degree fever, who is coughing and sneezing, whose whole body aches and say, "You aren't sick - you're healed in Jesus' name. Those are just the symptoms." No, it's the flu. And we need to go to bed, drink plenty of fluids and get better.

Kidsminister

That is going to an extreme. We should never deny the facts. If we are sick then we should say so.

However, we should also remind ourselves that our physical circumstances are NOT the only truth there is. While I may recognize the fact that I am sick, I should also recognize that Jesus said that He bore my sicknesses and carried my infirmities. So when sickness dares to come upon me and attack my body I declare the Word and I declare that the Word has more authority than my circumstances.

Since God's Word has more authority than my circumstances then I believe that my circumstances must change. That is why when I am sick, I do not say "I am not sick." However, I do not give the sickness more authority than God's promises. Therefore my confession is, "By the stripes of Jesus I declare myself healed" (1 Pet. 2:24; Mark 11:24).

Both are equally true. The truth I place the most faith in is the truth that will win.

 

[victoryword]

Didsworth

Excellent response my friend. I believe F. F. Bosworth said something to the effect that faith goes no further than the known will of God (or something like that).

I find it quite humorous that we often emphasize God's Word and God's promises when we talk about faith, prayer, and "calling those things that be not as though they were" and yet, we are still countered with the same arguments about motives, the will of God, and other things.

I think that some of our critics are so concerned with God's sovereignty (I think you refere to that as an "omni-factor") that they miss the fact that God is a very generous God who desires to bless His children so much that He has made promises to do so.

Why do we have so many promises for answered prayer and people are hardly ever seeing a prayer answered? Simply because our focus is often more on God's sovereignty at the expense of His goodness. We should recognize God as "King of kings and Lord of lords" but we should also remember that He is "Father".

 

[Jim B]

Nobody is ignoring these verses Jim, they work in perfectly with the concept of belief and confession. If the word of Christ abides in you then you believe. If it does not... then you do not believe. It says nothing about you as a good person or a bad person, nothing about about being faithful or unfaithful. It is just a fact. The word of Christ will only abide in you if it is His will for you to have a thing. It is His word... He puts it into the people he wants to.
People are so stuck on this idea about "having enough faith" and "only if it is His will" that they do not take the time to understand what is being said. They want to twist this into a personal issue regarding peronsal worth. It has nothing to do with any of that. It is not about you!
Of course it has to be His will... else the word would not be in you and you would not believe in the first place. You have to believe in order to speak things into existance, and you can only believe if the word of Christ regarding speaking a thing into existance abides in you. But if that word does abide in you... then YES you can speak things into existance.
I do not know how many times this has been explained to people on these boards, and yet the same people just do not get it. I have to believe it is yet another instance where people are just blinded to the simplicity of it all. Either that or people are just being stubborn and not wanting to see these simlpe truthes.... to their own hurt.

Thanx Didy,

Remember my unpopular (to a few) thread in this forum on "God-talk/Christianese"? (It was so unpopular the thread got closed! ) This is sort of what I had in mind by opening the thread. “Speaking things into existence” is insider language among Charismatics, especially the WOF wing. In fact, I used to use it all the time myself. But people outside you fold - "other sheep I have who are not of this fold," John 10.16 - who do not understand what is meant by such language jump to some understandably faulty conclusions like Victoryword pointed out in post#4. It does sound like Christian voodoo to those who do not use such language. Furthermore, by itself it leads to the natural conclusion that if you want it all you have to do is speak it and it’s yours. I know that is not what you mean, and that's why the phrase does deserve an explanation when you use it. Better yet, come up with a better term.

It is not part of my vocabulary anymore and it does sound strange (spooky)when I hear (or read) it these days.

\o/

 

[kidsminister]

Kidsminister

That is going to an extreme. We should never deny the facts. If we are sick then we should say so.

However, we should also remind ourselves that our physical circumstances are NOT the only truth there is. While I may recognize the fact that I am sick, I should also recognize that Jesus said that He bore my sicknesses and carried my infirmities. So when sickness dares to come upon me and attack my body I declare the Word and I declare that the Word has more authority than my circumstances.

Since God's Word has more authority than my circumstances then I believe that my circumstances must change. That is why when I am sick, I do not say "I am not sick." However, I do not give the sickness more authority than God's promises. Therefore my confession is, "By the stripes of Jesus I declare myself healed" (1 Pet. 2:24; Mark 11:24).

Both are equally true. The truth I place the most faith in is the truth that will win.

I totally believe that by Jesus' stripes we are healed, and that he often heals us "on the spot" when we ask. And yes, that is the verse I use often when I ask Him for healing.

I remember a lady in my former church who gave a testimony that one night she was lying in bed vomiting and feverish with a migraine, but she refused to admit that she was sick. My thought was, how was she supposed to pray for healing if she wouldn't even admit that she was sick in the first place? The particular charismatic church my husband and I attended was starting to get into a lot of weird teachings regarding healing and manifestations, which is part of the reason we left...

 

[Jim B]

I totally believe that by Jesus' stripes we are healed, and that he often heals us "on the spot" when we ask. And yes, that is the verse I use often when I ask Him for healing.

I remember a lady in my former church who gave a testimony that one night she was lying in bed vomiting and feverish with a migraine, but she refused to admit that she was sick. My thought was, how was she supposed to pray for healing if she wouldn't even admit that she was sick in the first place? The particular charismatic church my husband and I attended was starting to get into a lot of weird teachings regarding healing and manifestations, which is part of the reason we left...

Good point, k.

If we do not accept the fact we are sick how do we call the elders to pray for us as James 5.14 says? The passage does not say, “Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church and tell them 'I am well, hallelujah! I am healed, glory to God!'”

You call them because you are sick. Admit it. And be prayed for “nd the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up.”

Not accepting it is just a form of denial. I do not necessarily believe it is faith.

\o/

 

[SavedByGrace3]

It is not part of my vocabulary anymore and it does sound strange (spooky)when I hear (or read) it these days.

\o/

I understand and agree Jim. Sometimes this is just a misunderstanding. But sometimes good folks come into the discussion already having the negative assumption fixed in their mind because they unfortunately happened upon a opponent first.
Thanks for the discussion old buddy. We do see eye to eye on many things, I am glad to have come to know you... and hope our rooms will be on the same floor when we get to heaven!
Blessings
Didy

 

[Andry]

Kidsminister

That is going to an extreme. We should never deny the facts. If we are sick then we should say so.

However, we should also remind ourselves that our physical circumstances are NOT the only truth there is. While I may recognize the fact that I am sick, I should also recognize that Jesus said that He bore my sicknesses and carried my infirmities. So when sickness dares to come upon me and attack my body I declare the Word and I declare that the Word has more authority than my circumstances.

Since God's Word has more authority than my circumstances then I believe that my circumstances must change. That is why when I am sick, I do not say "I am not sick." However, I do not give the sickness more authority than God's promises. Therefore my confession is, "By the stripes of Jesus I declare myself healed" (1 Pet. 2:24; Mark 11:24).

Both are equally true. The truth I place the most faith in is the truth that will win.

Interesting comments. I don't think "we should never deny the facts" is the correct wording.

It's not about denying the 'facts', but rather, stop interpreting the events and circumstances of life according to what you see with the natural eye. Because Paul said that we walk by faith and not by sight. Because if we walk by sight we are going to determine what to do by the ‘facts’ as we interpret the facts, and that will always be too difficult, it will always be a bridge too far.

Do you remember what happened with the 10 spies when they went into the land of Canaan? As opposed to two, Joshua and Caleb? They said the cities are too strong, the giants are too big, the enemies are too numerous. But because Joshua and Caleb did not assess the situation according to the "facts", because the facts were true, but they assessed it according to faith, which released them into TRUTH, they said the giants are not big enough, the cities are not strong enough, and the enemies not numerous. Now how can the same people who see the same things and experience the same things come up with such radically contradicting conclusions – because two of them were ‘faith-ing’ the facts. While ten of them were determining to operate according to the facts. You cannot make right decisions by assessing the facts. Right decisions come by ‘faith-ing’ the facts; or in other words, what is God saying about this situation? What has God said to us?

And when it comes to situations such as healing, God is very clear in his word what he says about that. And so we are able to stand in faith for that healing.

 

[kidsminister]

True...but Joshua and Caleb weren't denying what they saw. Their attitude was, "Yeah, they're big, but we can take them!" The rest of the spies were more like, "Poor us, they'll kill us."

Having faith when sick is putting complete trust in God that He will take care of it - no matter how He chooses to do it. I believe that the creation of Nyquil was divinely inspired, for example .

 

[Andry]

LoL.

I'm an Advil-convert. Try it. Works 'miracles'.