• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

Can one be born soulless?

iambren

Newbie
Mar 2, 2008
3,223
163
newark, ohio
✟19,621.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Nazarene
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
They say Jodi Arias has empty dark eyes; rather lifeless. In studies of the brain there are weak striations in the brain matter between the amygdala(fear center) to the prefontal cortex(reasoning). These people exist without the ability to love or have empathy for others. My questions:

Are they demons inhabiting a human body?

How could they possibly convert?

Are they culpable as humans without the ability to feel guilt?

Does God overlook the sins of the mentally/spiritually void?
 

Inkachu

Bursting with fruit flavor!
Jan 31, 2008
35,357
4,220
Somewhere between Rivendell and Rohan
✟70,496.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Can people be born soulless? No. God is willing that "all" should come to repentance, that means everyone will have a choice ultimately; that wouldn't be an accurate statement if some people were born without a soul to begin with, they'd be damned from the start. I believe that grace covers those who cannot be held accountable (infants, severely mentally handicapped, etc).


Are they demons inhabiting a human body? You mean, hardened, sociopathic criminals? Possibly. They certainly lack a conscience or any sense of remorse or empathy with their victims. But it could also be a combination of emotional, psychological, and spiritual factors.

How could they possibly convert? "With God, nothing shall be impossible" Luke 1:37

Are they culpable as humans without the ability to feel guilt? Culpable to who? The justice system? Absolutely. Culpable to God? I think so, because even if they don't "feel" that they're doing wrong, these people DO understand that they're doing wrong, they just don't care. That's why they often try to cover their tracks or hide what they did, or kill themselves aftewards.

Does God overlook the sins of the mentally/spiritually void? Big difference between someone who's mentally incapable of understanding right and wrong, and someone who's deadened spiritually (which, IMO, is a choice they've made somewhere along the way, and most likely, a series of many choices). Are you referring to people who commit crimes due to mental illness like schizophrenia, or people who are completely incapacitated and unaware of reality? Mental illness covers such a huge spectrum of scenarios, I'm not sure we can make a black & white declaration that applies across the board.
 
Upvote 0

seeingeyes

Newbie
Nov 29, 2011
8,944
809
Backwoods, Ohio
✟35,360.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
They say Jodi Arias has empty dark eyes; rather lifeless. In studies of the brain there are weak striations in the brain matter between the amygdala(fear center) to the prefontal cortex(reasoning). These people exist without the ability to love or have empathy for others.


I don't know who Jodi Arias is, but I've certainly met folks with some dead eyes in my time. :shiver:

I'm quite a social girl who hates small talk, so I'm always trying to get to 'the heart' of the folks I talk to. Sometimes I fail miserably (can't crack everyone!), but sometimes there is no 'there' there. I have no interest in diagnosing such people (I'll leave that up to those smarter than me), but Lord have mercy, I have no idea what could light up such eyes.

My questions:

Are they demons inhabiting a human body?

How could they possibly convert?

Are they culpable as humans without the ability to feel guilt?

Does God overlook the sins of the mentally/spiritually void?

I don't see any resemblance between the demon possessed in the Bible and these people. That doesn't rule anything out, of course, but I'm not big enough on 'demonology' to say one way or the other.

If they could convert, it would be by the same power that all of us do. God's grace. What is impossible for our God?

Humans are culpable not based on whether they 'feel guilt', but on whether they are capable of recognizing that they have treated others in a way that they would not want to be treated. ("How you measure it, it will be measured to you".) The inability to 'feel' such empathy I think is a secondary matter.

I don't think God overlooks any sins. He will restore all things.

Great questions, by the way.
 
Upvote 0

BFine

Seed Planter
Jul 19, 2011
7,293
659
My room
✟11,108.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
There was a man who they said the same thing about him, his eyes were cold/
and void (they said) and his speech was without feeling (they said)... he was
one of the men on trial for the rape and killing of a waitress.
The jury had no trouble convicting this man of the crimes of murder based on
junk science, so called experts and jailhouse snitches who gave false testimonies.

However-- this man wasn't guilty of murder or rape.

Further study of the person in the OP would have to be explored, experts
don't always know everything...many experts have been bought off.
 
Upvote 0

TheyCallMeDavid

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2013
3,301
99
70
Florida
✟4,108.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
They say Jodi Arias has empty dark eyes; rather lifeless. In studies of the brain there are weak striations in the brain matter between the amygdala(fear center) to the prefontal cortex(reasoning). These people exist without the ability to love or have empathy for others. My questions:

Are they demons inhabiting a human body?

How could they possibly convert?

Are they culpable as humans without the ability to feel guilt?

Does God overlook the sins of the mentally/spiritually void?

Every person has an infused Soul from God , that is : Mind, Will / Freewill , Emotions which are NON-physical . No one is excluded from being made in the very image of the infinite Creator. What happens in life oftentimes, is, a Person will allow their Soul to be damaged by their poor choices or from Others placing adversity on them in very damaging ways. This does not mean that the Person becomes void right from wrong on major issues such as murder, etc. As for Jodi, she is the result of her own poor choices in combination with allowing herself to remain in emotionally damaging toxic environments...something she had control to do something about, but didn't excersise actions to rid herself of. Instead, she acquired the 'its always someone elses fault' mantra regarding herself. That, combined with being an extreme Naricisist , Manipulator, and Cunning Operator . The end result was an unthinkable allegedly justified rage because Travis 'deserved it' because he deepest dreams got permanently dashed. ANd for that heinous act of murder, the just outcome should be her forfeiting her own life as a declaration that Society doesn't want her any longer .

The Jury in America should NOT consist of off the street People who infuse their subjectivity...but trained Law Professionals who apply only Objective considerations to keep justice what it should be . Anything less, is a travesty to society.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,127
33,262
✟583,992.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
They say Jodi Arias has empty dark eyes; rather lifeless. In studies of the brain there are weak striations in the brain matter between the amygdala(fear center) to the prefontal cortex(reasoning). These people exist without the ability to love or have empathy for others. My questions:

Are they demons inhabiting a human body?

Apparently not. You just explained that it's a failure of biology.

How could they possibly convert?

Are they culpable as humans without the ability to feel guilt?

Does God overlook the sins of the mentally/spiritually void?
In my humble opinion, this is one of those areas God has not chosen to reveal to us in this life.
 
Upvote 0

vespasia

Franciscan.
Site Supporter
Oct 15, 2004
5,826
441
Back
✟88,003.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Private
In my role at church I do get to spend time with people who appear flat and lifeless; some have serious mental illnessand take drugs that knock them about, some have committed serious crimes but I never think they have no soul.

I beleive God can see beyond the limits we impose for nop one is so bad they are beyond the love of God. Certainly there are consequences for their actions in this world but we are not God and we are supposed to take the good news to who so ever in the world is able to hear it.

God knows who is and who is not capable of cupability, what the economics of necessity can drive people to and still God loves us. It is we who have been greater blessed with self insight and an ability to imagine potential consequences who should look out for our weaker siblings and neighbours and pray for them.

To be described as retrobate and being beyond God is not a great place to be. In the late 1980's I was called a demon walking about in a human suit by Christians who bought into a lie that there are those who God cannot reach. I guess that experience has made me a bit more compassionate and willing to accept God knows far more than ever any human can or will and to go more than the extra mile with the folk I walk with pastorally.

 
Upvote 0

sdowney717

Newbie
Apr 20, 2013
8,712
2,022
✟110,098.00
Faith
Christian
Ever watch Stargate and the goulds who possesed people and took them over?

That is similar to the way demonic possession works.
A snake in the head! Of course not literally.
If you could see the demon, certainly Christ could.

However the soul of the person is still there. They are being overridden by an evil spirit. When that spirit takes them, seizes them, sort of like spells where they go crazy for a time and then recover a little. But the evil spirit still is inside waiting to manifest again. It is why when Jesus shows up, demon possessed persons cry out, the evil spirit inside them is agitated.

The man at the tombs was seriously possesed by Legion, meaning lots of evil spirits. Notice he ran straight to Jesus.

A Demon-Possessed Man Healed

26 Then they sailed to the country of the Gadarenes,[c] which is opposite Galilee. 27 And when He stepped out on the land, there met Him a certain man from the city who had demons for a long time. And he wore no clothes,[d] nor did he live in a house but in the tombs. 28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, “What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me!”

29 For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man.

For it had often seized him, and he was kept under guard, bound with chains and shackles; and he broke the bonds and was driven by the demon into the wilderness.

30 Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?”

And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him. 31 And they begged Him that He would not command them to go out into the abyss.


People today can only be delivered from demons by the Holy Spirit. Just as then, there are many possessed persons. Many crazy people, sick people, mental cases. The women who had an issue of blood for years and suffered under the terrible doctors of the time, Jesus said Satan had bound her.

Luke 13:11-16, "And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God. And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day. The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering? And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?"

Today how many are not having evil spirits cast out and will continue to suffer because it no longer fits our modern ideas of healing?

Matthew 8:16, "When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:"

Matthew 12:15, "But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;"

Matthew 4:24, "And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them."

Luke 6:19, "And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all."
 
Upvote 0

seeingeyes

Newbie
Nov 29, 2011
8,944
809
Backwoods, Ohio
✟35,360.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In my role at church I do get to spend time with people who appear flat and lifeless; some have serious mental illnessand take drugs that knock them about, some have committed serious crimes but I never think they have no soul.

I beleive God can see beyond the limits we impose for nop one is so bad they are beyond the love of God. Certainly there are consequences for their actions in this world but we are not God and we are supposed to take the good news to who so ever in the world is able to hear it.

God knows who is and who is not capable of cupability, what the economics of necessity can drive people to and still God loves us. It is we who have been greater blessed with self insight and an ability to imagine potential consequences who should look out for our weaker siblings and neighbours and pray for them.

To be described as retrobate and being beyond God is not a great place to be. In the late 1980's I was called a demon walking about in a human suit by Christians who bought into a lie that there are those who God cannot reach. I guess that experience has made me a bit more compassionate and willing to accept God knows far more than ever any human can or will and to go more than the extra mile with the folk I walk with pastorally.

I don't think the OP is referring to those who are 'unsaved' or to those who are drugged out into oblivion, or to those who can't determine reality due to severe mental illness.

It is referring to sociopaths who would kill you, giggle about how you died in such a messy way, and then cry in court to persuade the jury that he is sorry in order to win a lesser sentence. These folks have the mental faculties to understand how other people work, enough to manipulate them flawlessly, and yet they do not have any concern whatsoever about how what they do affects others so long as they get what they want.

Now, I don't know exactly how they fit into God's plan, but I can't but wonder whether, when they are tested with fire, if anything at all would be left.

May the Lord have mercy.
 
Upvote 0

BFine

Seed Planter
Jul 19, 2011
7,293
659
My room
✟11,108.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
There are different degrees of ASPD (antisocial personality disorder)--
not all those with ASPD are killers.

Science of the matter--
The exact cause of ASPD is unknown.
However, genetic and environmental factors may play a role.
You may also be at greater risk of developing the disorder if you are
male and if you:
were abused as a child
grew up with parents who have ASPD
grew up with alcoholic parents

Biblical reference to having a "seared conscious--
When we continue in sin, our souls begin to become morally callous.
We finally come to a point where our conscience is seared and is unable
to help us determine right from wrong. It is as if a hot iron was applied
to our conscience and it is destroyed.
Even worse, we don’t care how sinful we are.

Every human being that has ever lived has had a soul, and all of
those souls are still in existence somewhere...either in hell or heaven
depending on whether they accepted or rejected Christ as Savior.
 
Upvote 0

iambren

Newbie
Mar 2, 2008
3,223
163
newark, ohio
✟19,621.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Nazarene
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Thank you all for the great feedback. A comment Dr Drew made last night got me thinking.

He said Jodi was like a chameleon and she became whatever you wanted her to be. The interest was to pull back the curtains and see the REAL her and he said there may be nothing there! I heard of no spiritual influence in her early life, no wanton drug sprees, no family disease or severe abuse. Her affect, constant lying, lack of insight over guilt and remorse, her lack of fear and tact make me wonder if Dr Drew is right.

Yet it is hard to plug it into my theological beliefs. I don't endorse but seriously contemplate the words of this article; at least a fresh approach.


http://www.bethelministries.com/psychopaths_are_not_human.htm
 
Upvote 0

vespasia

Franciscan.
Site Supporter
Oct 15, 2004
5,826
441
Back
✟88,003.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Private
Seeing eyes,

Sadly I do get to deal with folk with serious mental illness including personality disorders and dual disognosis; the speed-dial section for the various duty teams on the phone I carry kind of gives it away.

And yes God has mercy, that is why Christ came.
 
Upvote 0

aribeth

Newbie
Jul 21, 2012
9
0
✟23,159.00
Faith
Christian
There is a thing called demon possession where the enemy can take over spiritually. When I was in deliverance ministry, trying to get teens out of the occult I had literally see demons in a form of shadows with skeleton heads manifest in my apartment while working with some teens. During one encounter A demon entered me and tormented my mind intensely. Personally I thought that this wouldn't happen to a christian but I later found out from my pastor and the elders of the church that it's very possible for it to happen infact. It's more 'oppression' than 'possession' tho. With the Holy Spirit within, it becomes a war inside literally! Try reading scriptures will the demon screaming in your head obscenities! Loud and very vocal, and trying to drown out the voice of the Holy Spirit and Jesus! It was a really weird encounter! The pastor and elders had to fast and pray for 3 days before it could be cast out of me! They literally saw it manifest before them even so they knew that I was not bluffing! It finally came out of me looking like a vapour of smoke coming out of my chest! The pastor also told me to resist it as it would try to come back in. Re matt 12...
An Unclean Spirit Returns

43When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it passes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ On its return, it finds the house vacant, swept clean and put in order. 45Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and dwell there; and the final plight of that man is worse than the first. So will it be with this wicked generation.”

Re luke 11....
An Unclean Spirit Returns

24When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it passes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ 25On its return, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and dwell there. And the final plight of that man is worse than the first.”

Also Paul had a thorn in his flesh too...re 2 cor 12...
Paul’s Thorn and God’s Grace

5I will boast about such a man, but I will not boast about myself, except in my weaknesses. 6Even if I wanted to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me, 7or because of these surpassingly great revelations.

So to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.

8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me. 10That is why, for the sake of Christ, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Also in my 30's I had a spontaneous awakening of the kundalini aka serpent spirit. I went thru the process over a 10 year period. Jesus was by my righthand side thruout it all and said I had to go thru it. It was so I could later help others going thru the same ordeal! In the process I heard the words spiritually during the process 'kundalini, chakras, the Void, transpersonal chakras, later on there is a rebirthing that takes place,then there's the realm of Monad which is 3 parts of manas, buddhi and atma, later on there is a final test and it was horrorific! ( majorly scary it was!) Once one passes that test tho, one enters the silence and becomes an 'arhat'. In the process my mind eventually silenced completely and all thought vanished and at the final test the ego was destroyed! In the end of the process Jesus revealed that it was infact a 'familiar spirit'. It is also the counterfeit Holy Spirit. Also when I was going thru the process I had many spiritual gifts like very vivid dreams, and a electrifying kinda of peace which one could actually feel physically. It is very, very deceptive! One had to learn how to breath properly, meditate and how to rise up the kundalini energy. This in essence is 'mystery babylon' and is the luciferian initiation of all mystery schools aka judaic kabbalah, christian mysticism, theosophy, freemasonry, eastern mysticism aka hindu,buddhism, tantric, taoism, new age etc. All going back to ancient babylon with nimrod and the tower of babel.
This process can literally kill the 'soul' somehow via the death of the ego self. My mind was literally wiped out infact! My heart was numbed out for the longest time, before the kundalini experience thru abuse. So I had a heart of stone and was always numbed out emotionally. When one is severely abused, as a child or thru ritual abuse they 'numb out' and can become .'fractured' even aka having altars/multiple personalities.' Basically they become 'soulless' and become an empty vessel for demonic possession or mind control even.... think mk ultra here.

That's all I know tho. Peace.
 
Upvote 0

aribeth

Newbie
Jul 21, 2012
9
0
✟23,159.00
Faith
Christian
Matthew 10
26 “So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs.

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

re....ezek 18....
Ezekiel 18:20
20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Advanced Spiritual Warfare: Defeating The Kundalini Spirit

What is Kundalini? The Kundalini or serpent spirit (in Greek, puthon or python; see Acts 16:16) is a demon that attempts to crush the human spirit and inhabit a human body. The Kundalini and the Python spirit are one in the same. Knowingly or unknowingly, many who practice yoga, occult practices like: witchcraft, fortune telling, new age, acupuncture, and other eastern philosophies, and medical practices will awaken the Kundalini spirit in order to gain a greater (false) sense of well being, peace, awareness, and spiritual knowledge. Yahweh is opposed to these practices.

We are spiritual beings, we either belong to God’s Kingdom or the kingdom of darkness (Satan’s kingdom). When we expose ourselves to darkness, we are connecting/yoking with the kingdom of darkness. Those who practice or have practiced yoga and eastern meditations and healing practices have knowingly or unknowingly awaken the Kundalini / python spirit, i.e. witchcraft.

How Does The Kundalini / Python Spirit Manifest?

The Kundalini / python spirit attacks the prophetic, the apostolic, and the authentic move of God. Let’s take a look at the following scripture reference:

Acts 16:16-17:

“Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling. This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, ‘These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.’ And this she did for many days”

Notice, how the python spirit in the girl who followed Paul and Silas harassed them. The python spirit will counterfeit the Holy Spirit and will often attack “the authentic” move of God. If you are a prophetic person, you have likely experienced a python attack. The python attack is meant to discredit you, to raise questions concerning your authenticity and your devotion to God.

Beloveds, when you experience this kind of attack, do not panic or retaliate, this is what the python spirit expects of you. This attack is meant for you to misrepresent God by operating in the soulish realm (the emotions). BE STILL!! Get into the word of God. Get into the presence of God in praise and worship.

The python attack is meant to silence you, confuse you, and slander you, so that the work of God would have no effect in your life. You have to be methodological in your strategy to overcome the python spirit. Today, we are going to look at how to identify, resist, and overcome this spirit. snip...

rest at site....
 
Upvote 0