Can a couple marry themselves under God?

[highlife]

Just going around having sex does not make them your spouse. If that's the case then there's no such thing as pre material sex when the bible cleary states pre material sex is a sin.

Does it? Is porneia actually defined at pre marital sex?

 

[critical3]

Like I said, that's fine too. But what Paul states is Truth, regardless of your earthly ideas. Nevertheless, let me continue from my previous post and get back on topic. My computer shut off in the middle of it so here it goes again:

We as Christians continue to teach and believe that marriage is only marriage in the eyes of God based on man made religious and government laws. Having a wedding ceremony and/or marriage certificate has zero to do with marriage in the eyes of God. Sorry if that contradicts what you've always been taught but there is simply no biblical truth to it. Sex is marriage. The joining of the flesh is what marries us in the eyes of God.

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. Mark 10: 6-8

The worldly ceremonies, rings, certificates, etc. are exactly that. Worldly. I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with these things just as there is nothing wrong with birthday parties, Easter dinners or Christmas festivities. But don't make the mistake of assuming that earthly ceremonies or certificates means anything to God.

Fast forward to the New Testament:

Here's another scripture that has been fairly effectively turned around to suit earthly beliefs on marriage and condemnation for "living in sin".

He said to her, "Go, call your husband and come here."
The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband'; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly." The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. John 4:16-19

Now, in order to understand this scripture, you have to look at it logically. Let's say there is a woman at your church who has been married five times via ceremony/certificate. It's not very likely that would be much of a secret. In fact, she would probably be the topic of much gossip and judgement throughout the congregation gossip circles. Now, a stranger shows up and tells her exactly what is quoted in John 4. I think it's safe to say that no one is going to call the stranger a prophet because he can speak on something that is more than likely common knowledge. Same would be true 2000 years ago if not more so. Ok, now look at this:

So the woman left her waterpot, and went into the city and said to the men, "Come, see a man who told me all the things that I have done; this is not the Christ, is it?" They went out of the city, and were coming to Him. John 4 28-30

There are two points here. First, notice how she refers to her "marriages" as something she's done, as if it were wrong. If her marriages were based on certificates or whatever was worldly popular or law at the time, she wouldn't have "done" anything. They would be legit therefore no reason to mention them. Secondly, if she actually had been, let's call it "legally" married 5 times, the people of the town would have zero respect for her or her word. Much like today only multiplied by 2000 years. But yet, the town immediately went out of the city and made the estimated 1/2 mile walk to the well in the noon heat of the desert, based on her word. I don't know if any of you have been in the desert at noon but I can tell you, it's not pleasant at all and certainly not worth making the trip based on the words of some "harlot".

Now, let's look at it from the other perspective that sex is marriage. Same scenario except the woman in question is not "legally" married but she has had sex with 5 different men and the one she's with now (courting) she hasen't slept with yet. This makes much more logical sense. First, if someone came to you and told you exactly how many people you had slept with, and the one you're with now, you haven't slept with, that would be stunning to anyone. Thus, she immediately knew he must at least be a prophet because how could he know her intimate secrets. Plus, if she's living with a man, most people would assume they're sleeping together but Jesus knew they hadn't.

Let's look at another scripture:

Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH." 1 Corin. 6:16

This is self explanitory. Sex is marriage in the eyes of God but it's also important to understand that if you believe something is a sin in your heart, then it is. But that has nothing to do with the next persons heart and trying to force your will on someone else is a waste of time especially when you have no biblical proof.

Your heart is your heart, their heart is their heart but please know that there is no biblical basis for marriage being "legit" in the eyes of God, based on earthly requirements. It is all about doing what is righteous. Therefore, if you join flesh with someone, do what is righteous by staying with them and providing for them, thus honoring your covenant with God. If you have no intentions of operating in righteous toward them, don't have sex with them as you will be married and you will violate your marriage covenant between you, your wife and God.

I know it's a difficult pill to swallow as it was for me but I assure you, everything will be fine. Simply ask the Lord to break those covenants you made in your ignorance and He will. And you can continue on in your life, in righteousness.

where is sex mentioned in these verses and that its interpreted as sex = marriage??



this is talking about unity.. one + one = one ..



Mark 10:9 (NKJV)

Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.

God joining together = become one flesh?? sounds pretty similiar eh?

 

[highlife]

I dont think anyone is nessicarily saying sex = marriage, its the commitment not the cerimony. Its all about intentions.

 

[BloodyRachel]

where is sex mentioned in these verses and that its interpreted as sex = marriage??



this is talking about unity.. one + one = one ..



Mark 10:9 (NKJV)

Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.

God joining together = become one flesh?? sounds pretty similiar eh?

Exactly, it's like the Trinity. One + one + one = one. I've always been suspicious of the Trinity, actually. I don't see it in the Old Testament, and my Jewish roots are so important to me! I have a Jewish cousin who I see all the time, for example. He's my best friend. We go out to eat all the time. It's kosher food, of course. He uses my bathroom a lot. Other than him, I have piles and piles of Jewish friends. They know my knowledge of the Old Testament is second to none. I feel almost like I'm one of them. I think I am one of them on the inside. Yet, I won't become a Jew. Why not? Because I'm a Southern Baptist, of course! Becoming a Jew is unthinkable.

 

[wayfaring man]

Here, check this out:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Now maybe you can explain this to me if your definition of fornication is correct. How can a woman be married and then have sex before marriage? That makes no sense.

A straightforward explanation is that "putting away one's wife for the cause of fornication", specifically refers to a wife "betrothed", and not a wife already in a "consummated marriage". Even as Joseph was intending to "put away", Mary when he found her pregnant, while she was betrothed or engaged to be his wife, (but the union was not yet consummated through intimacy.) Yet an angel appeared to him and explained that she had not committed "fornication" with another man, but that she was pregnant by The Holy Ghost...and so he proceeded to take her as his wife.

This also indicates that once a marriage is consummated through intimacy even adultery isn't necessarily grounds for divorce, if indeed we apply the same rule unto others as we need/would agree is fit for ourselves. Namely -

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. <-----> Matthew 12:31

Now if we ourselves depend on this so great a provision of nearly all encompassing forgiveness, then how is it fair that we withhold more stringently our own forgiveness from others ?

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. <-----> Matthew 6:14+15

As the Church, those who believe/look to Jesus for our Salvation, we are betrothed/engaged to be married eternally to God, yet unless we apply the same merciful standard unto others, which God for Christ's sake has applied unto us, it appears we will fall short of His acceptance in The Beloved.

May The Lord Be Pleased !

wm

 

[wayfaring man]

Does it? Is porneia actually defined at pre marital sex?

Perhaps a more comprehensive definition is - "sex outside of a life-long commitment", which is what "marriage" is meant to indicate or represent.

wm

 

[wayfaring man]

Marriage = a life-long commitment to being monogamous with one of the opposite sex.

Fornication = anything short/deviant of this.

 

[highlife]

A straightforward explanation is that "putting away one's wife for the cause of fornication", specifically refers to a wife "betrothed", and not a wife already in a "consummated marriage". Even as Joseph was intending to "put away", Mary when he found her pregnant, while she was betrothed or engaged to be his wife, (but the union was not yet consummated through intimacy.) Yet an angel appeared to him and explained that she had not committed "fornication" with another man, but that she was pregnant by The Holy Ghost...and so he proceeded to take her as his wife.

This also indicates that once a marriage is consummated through intimacy even adultery isn't necessarily grounds for divorce, if indeed we apply the same rule unto others as we need/would agree is fit for ourselves. Namely -

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. <-----> Matthew 12:31

Now if we ourselves depend on this so great a provision of nearly all encompassing forgiveness, then how is it fair that we withhold more stringently our own forgiveness from others ?

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. <-----> Matthew 6:14+15

As the Church, those who believe/look to Jesus for our Salvation, we are betrothed/engaged to be married eternally to God, yet unless we apply the same merciful standard unto others, which God for Christ's sake has applied unto us, it appears we will fall short of His acceptance in The Beloved.

May The Lord Be Pleased !

wm

You can divorce your wife and still forgive her but simply not want to deal with the problems anymore, just like you may forgive someone of stealing from you but your not going to give them a key again. There is a difference between forgiveness and trust/reliability.

Otherwise the christian life is not worth living and I dont believe that.

 

[homeofmew]

=| if there is 2 people left on earth there needs to be no formal wedding. it's a commitment before god that's all.

 

[Leat]

So what you 2 are saying is that the women i'm going to marry, the women whom my heart cannot break from is the women ill commit adultery with? Ive been with 10 women sexually and none of those 10 have I felt such a strong love for. Marriage isn't about sexual intercourse. Its about love and compassion. You 2 are wrong when it comes to how someone gets married under God. God wouldn't have destroyed Sodom and Goromah if that was the case.

ACTUALLY God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins, and the fact they chose, as a nation, to turn away from God.

Research ancient traditions. You didn't need a certificate, you didn't need a celebration, you didn't need anything other than each other.

But the scriptures say you need a WRITTEN divorce...so then, what is required for a Biblical marriage? Search The Bible, not the opinion of a man. For we are to look to God, not a man for perfection and Truth.

I just read Leviticus 18:1-30 And nothing was mentioned of sex before marriage.

 

[WilliamB]

I just read Leviticus 18:1-30 And nothing was mentioned of sex before marriage.

That's because it's a false, man made concept and/or just a misunderstanding of what fornication is and what is or isn't acceptable to God. But, some people preach it like it's the 11th commandment with no biblical evidence.

Love is acceptable to God. As long as our decisions do not violate the Two Great Commandments, we are acceptable to God, in all we do. It's really as simple as that and for me, no earthly ideology is going to change that fact.

The simplicity of Christ makes Christian living so enjoyable. Without all the nonsense the "church" dreams up to control people, true peace, joy and love can come into your life. At least, for me that's the case.

 

[Jewels10004]

That's because it's a false, man made concept and/or just a misunderstanding of what fornication is and what is or isn't acceptable to God. But, some people preach it like it's the 11th commandment with no biblical evidence.

Love is acceptable to God. As long as our decisions do not violate the Two Great Commandments, we are acceptable to God, in all we do. It's really as simple as that and for me, no earthly ideology is going to change that fact.

The simplicity of Christ makes Christian living so enjoyable. Without all the nonsense the "church" dreams up to control people, true peace, joy and love can come into your life. At least, for me that's the case.

 

[Jewels10004]

That's because it's a false, man made concept and/or just a misunderstanding of what fornication is and what is or isn't acceptable to God. But, some people preach it like it's the 11th commandment with no biblical evidence.

Love is acceptable to God. As long as our decisions do not violate the Two Great Commandments, we are acceptable to God, in all we do. It's really as simple as that and for me, no earthly ideology is going to change that fact.

The simplicity of Christ makes Christian living so enjoyable. Without all the nonsense the "church" dreams up to control people, true peace, joy and love can come into your life. At least, for me that's the case.

 

[Jewels10004]

Hi William! I would like to add to this forum please. There are several things I would like to comment on. I was being shown (by God is what I believe) back in 2009 or 2010 that by having sex a person is getting married. I had a real hard time excepting that as truth because we are taught by the church that having sex without a legal license is fornication. That is not true. I want to specify that first but what I want to talk about at this time is the woman at the well because that puzzled me so much because people bring that up when this conversation is discussed. I asked God about it and I think I have an answer. The man she was now with was not her husband because he was someone elses husband. The Lord said she had 5 husbands and the man she is now with is not her husband. The Lord is saying "it is not HER husband." A pastor thought she was married to her husband and the man she was with was a man she was committing adultery with. I wanted to know what you thought about all of this? Please let me know. I have more to discuss but I have to talk about it later because I have to run.

 

[Radagast]

Like if a man and his girlfriend were alone in a room and wanted to get married right then and there. So they write down there vows and pronouce their love for each other and say "As God as my witness, I am your husband from this day fourth."

If it is at all possible, there should be witnesses and a church service. If the man and the woman are all alone on a desert island, then what you describe would be OK.

Outside of a desert island, I'd be very suspicious of someone who didn't want witnesses, a church service, or a certificate.

 

[messager777]

Adam and Eve were married under God, ie they did not get a marriage license.
....... There is God's Law and there is National Law, eg US Law. Adultery and homosexuality are mostly lawful under US Law but are unlawful under God's Law. Christians should follow God's Law if they hope to have a good and long life on earth, ie avoid the sins of adultery, homosexuality, hedonism, harlotry, etc.

So, for some young and faithful US Christian couples who could not get legally married under US Law because of financial hardship in this modern society, they could treat themselves as being spiritually and lawfully married under God's Law = should not breakup("divorce") and should practice birth-control until they are financially stable.

P S - At ACTS.15:24-29, God has exempted new Gentile Christians from any law of Moses which is a burden, eg circumcision and kosher foods. They are not exempted from any law which is not a burden, esp morality laws, eg the Ten Commandments(EXO.20), DEUT.18:9-14, LEV.10:9 & 18:22, etc.
....... In comparison, new Jewish Christians are required by God to continue to keep as many law of Moses as possible because it is not a burden to them.
....... Those who wantonly or ignorantly break God's Law will risk losing their salvation, like the wife of Job who cursed God/Jesus and died while suffering for Job's ignorant sin.(1COR.5:1-5 & 11:30 & 6:9-11, REV.22:12-15)

 

[Radagast]

Hold on. I just realized something. John 4:17-18 NIV

"I have no husband," she replied.
Jesus said to her, "You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true."

Jesus didn't say "Yupp you have 6 husbands now." But yet she was sleeping with this sixth man but this man is not her husband still. Sorry, done with this conversation since this verse alone proves you wrong

The Greek there actually just uses the ordinary word for "man." A more accurate translation would be:

Jesus said to her, “Go, call your man, and come here.” The woman answered him, “I have no man.” Jesus said to her, “You are right in saying, ‘I have no man’; for you have had five men, and the one you have now is not your man. What you have said is true.”

 

[Radagast]

So, for some young and faithful US Christian couples who could not get legally married under US Law because of financial hardship in this modern society, they could treat themselves as being spiritually and lawfully married under God's Law = should not breakup("divorce") and should practice birth-control until they are financially stable.

Legal marriage isn't actually all that expensive (less than $100, generally).

And a godly marriage still needs witnesses and a church service (or at least a blessing).

In the early Church, some Christian couples couldn't legally marry (because there was a law against slaves marrying non-slaves). But they still had a marriage service in church.

 

[LoricaLady]

That is an interesting question. Now the Bible nevers says anything about a marriage license, wearing a wedding ring or saying "I do." It does talk about the importance of being married and not just fornicating, however. As a woman, especially if any children came along, I would want the protection of a legal marriage. If you love her, why not honor her before the law and loved ones in an offical ceremony? Rhetorical Q.

 

[Brians walk]

NNSV is absolutely correct. Sex is marriage, therefore there is no such thing as pre-marital sex as it's impossible to have pre-marital sex, when sex is marriage. That's why you don't find any mention of pre-marital sex in the bible. And no, fornication does not mean sex before marriage. It means immorailty. Both sexual or otherwise. It can be adultery, sleeping with animals, laying with a man as a woman and incest. But it can also mean a turning away from God or idol worship. (and many other forms of immorality)

Fornication is really a "blanket" term to cover many different kinds of immorality as there was no greek or hebrew word for fornication, the original word in use was pornea and is still in debate to this day because it covers so many forms of immorality. Which btw, was most commonly used to refer to prostitutes and is where we derive our word pornography. Pre-marital sex is a man made term to control people. They didn't want their young daughters falling for someone and becoming "joined in the flesh", because they'd be married in the eyes of God. So, we use scare tactics like, pre-marital sex is sin but as you see, twisting the Word of God only leads to destruction, which is evident in our culture today.

There are people who say, "I respect the sanctity of marriage so, I'm just going to sleep around until I find the one, then I'll take it serious." Wrong attitude and this person has collected countless husbands or wives in the process.

We have taught the message improperly and the truth is, many people had several husbands or wives before the got "legally" married and are committing adultery with the one they are legally married to. People want to deny the Truth in the bible to cover their sins but, "what God has joined together, let no man separate". Ever heard someone say, "my daughter is pregnant, so they need to get married to make it right in the eyes of God."? Of course, but this is a falsehood and thinking a civil certificate or earthly ceremony makes any difference to God, is just silly. It's as silly as thinking a civil court divorce, actually divorces you in the eyes of God.

The last thing you usually here is, "Well, you have to follow the laws of the land, according to the bible". You're absolutely right! But, having sex with someone without a civil marriage certificate or not having a ceremony, is not against the law. I have much more on this topic, but I have to run for now.

God Bless and my God continue to lead you into all Truth.

I agree with you and I am very sure it lines up with God's word in the bible. I have been going through some problems with this because I don't think biblical