Call no man Father. (Needs Clarification)

Shadowprophet · Jul 3, 2019

I and my friend are having a debate, about Fathers. My friend Believes that we aren't supposed to call anyone Father But The Lord God, And in Matthew 23:9 it does say that.

So I'm confused, are we not supposed to call our paternal Dad, Our Father?

Tate82 · Jul 3, 2019

It maybe a thing against the Romans invading the religion at that time or it might pertain to all men. Just to be safe, I personally and going just by the words alone as a literal meaning. You brother can take how ever ya want.

Shadowprophet · Jul 3, 2019

Tate82 said:
It maybe a thing against the Romans invading the religion at that time or it might pertain to all men. Just to be safe, I personally and going just by the words alone as a literal meaning. You brother can take how ever ya want.

It could be brother, I'm not entirely certain, I've called my dad my father for my entire life, It seems it could be a word that's reserved for use only in the context of the Lord. I'm just not certain.

Not David · Jul 3, 2019

No, Abraham is called Father, Paul refers to himself as a father to Timothy and others, etc.

All4Christ · Jul 4, 2019

The same verse also says to call no man teacher - and many times in Scripture (New Testament), people are called “teacher”. If you look at the entire Bible, you can see that it doesn’t mean to avoid calling anyone father (or teacher).

Lost4words · Jul 4, 2019

People get too hung up on certain 'words' in scripture or misunderstand their meaning.

As i have said before, the Bible is the most misinterpreted and misunderstood book in the whole world.

chevyontheriver · Jul 4, 2019

Shadowprophet said:
I and my friend are having a debate, about Fathers. My friend Believes that we aren't supposed to call anyone Father But The Lord God, And in Matthew 23:9 it does say that.

So I'm confused, are we not supposed to call our paternal Dad, Our Father?

It's mostly misinterpretation, but popular as an attack on Catholics who call their priests 'father'.

A curious bit of history though, was that in the early history of this country Catholics didn't call their priests 'father' and Protestants did often call their ministers 'father'. Things change over time.

Paul pretty much was the spiritual father to Timothy (See 2 Timothy 1:1), and to the Corinthian Christians (See 1 Corinthians 4:15).

So what to do about Matthew 23:9? Just don't call anyone a rabbi, teacher, father, or instructor? I've seen people who call their biological progenitor 'papa' so as to not call him 'father'. But of course 'papa' means 'father' so they were not clever enough. I think 'call no man father' is hyperbole. What's the whole chapter about? The scribes and Pharisees who sit on Moses' seat. They think they're hot stuff. So proud. Don't be like them. Don't be their disciples. Don't follow them as a child follows his father. Do as they say but not as they do.

So call your father 'father. No sin in that. If there are other people who have been fathers to you, and they are noble and good people you can call them 'father' too. A good priest can be called 'father'. A noble past political figure can be referred to as a father of the country. Early Christian writers can be referred to as Fathers of the Church. But anyone who acts like the fellows described in Mt 23 should not be a father to you nor be called your father.

So hyperbole, deliberate exaggeration. Like cutting parts of your body off to avoid sin. Avoid the sin but keep your body parts. The message is to avoid the sin. Not to cut off body parts.

Daniel9v9 · Jul 4, 2019

Context is everything! We cannot rightly rip this verse out of context and turn it into a universal rule. By that logic, we can't call people teachers or instructors either. And we also need to hate our father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters etc. (Luke 14:26)

Scripture must always be read in light of Scripture. First, consider its immediate context, then its broader context. As a general rule, if there are unclear passages, they should always be understood in light of clear passages. Now, throughout the Bible, we see the word "father" used. In a natural sense (a literal father), in an ancestral sense (grandfathers, family line etc), and also in a spiritual sense. In its spiritual sense, we find it used two ways: One for God, who is the supreme Father. And another, as a mature person in faith, by God's grace. We can, for example, find the term used by or for Abraham, Paul, John, Peter. Paul writes: "To Timothy, my true child in the faith". John: "I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning."

So it's clear that it's not sinful to use the word "father", as it's used throughout Scriptures. So what's meant by Christ's statement? If we look at the context, who He is addressing - the Scribes and Pharisees - and why he is addressing them - to rebuke them - we can readily understand that Christ is saying that no one should exalt themselves and lord over others. But rather, we are to be humble, as a servant. In fact, just a few words down we find this explicitly stated: "The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted."

In short, what is meant by it is: We are to not boast in our own works and exalt ourselves. Neither are we to exalt, trust in, or follow anyone who does these things, but in all things, believe in, exalt, trust, fear and love God, and do good works in humility, knowing that we are unprofitable servants saved by grace.

SaintNick · Jul 4, 2019

I never had this issue.
I always called my step dad by his first name.

Tate82 · Jul 4, 2019

I love the perspectives but i go with literal word for word and yes it was out of context here is the full verse.

Matthew 23:9 Context

6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. 8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, evenChrist; and all ye are brethren. 9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

As stated by Chevyontheriver and I, This could be a slight against Romans AKA Catholics. It maybe a verse from when Catholicism was starting to get a larger influence. Either way to be safe i call my Biological Father "Dad". I know it means the same thing but it is a word for word issue for me because once again i state "When i do not know the Answer, i go literally word for word." The reason i do the Word for Word rule is this Verse.

Revelations 22:

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Joined2krist · Jul 4, 2019

He also said "call no one Teacher" too. But He was referring to the leaders of the Pharisees who loved to be called "Teacher" and "Father" yet He referred to them as hypocrites because they weren't practicing what they were preaching and they were abusing their position. He knew that they did this because the people held them in high esteem but they weren't living up to the title.

If you have a leader that fits such description as I have outlined above then don't call him "Teacher" or "Father" because he's abusing his position. But if you read the chronologies in the Bible you'll find that almost everyone was referred to as the father or grand father of someone else. God bless

Lost4words · Jul 4, 2019

This is where people take scripture literally when in a lot of places you shouldnt.

chevyontheriver · Jul 4, 2019

Tate82 said:
As stated by Chevyontheriver and I, This could be a slight against Romans AKA Catholics. It maybe a verse from when Catholicism was starting to get a larger influence.

My point was that it BECAME an attack against Catholics but in early America it was Protestants who called their clergy by the name of 'father' while Catholics often went with 'mister'. Catholics traditionally and for many centuries called their bishops 'father', and not their priests. Not until the Knownothings began hanging 'Catholics need not apply' signs in response to Irish Catholics coming to this country did that change. Irish Catholics did call their priests 'father' and the practice stuck for Catholics. Besides the Protestants did it as well. But Protestants suddenly discovered 'call no man father', abandoned their practice of calling their clergy 'father', and figured out how to use it against Catholics.

Were the Protestants wrong before, or are they wrong now? I think they were right before. They understood something way back when and then lost it in an eagerness to attack Catholics. They went for the hyperbole full bore rather than understanding the point Jesus was actually making about keeping to God's teaching rather than what the Scribes and Pharisees did.

Either way to be safe i call my Biological Father "Dad". I know it means the same thing but it is a word for word issue for me because once again i state "When i do not know the Answer, i go literally word for word." The reason i do the Word for Word rule is this Verse.

You do know that 'papa' and 'dad' and 'father' are really all the same? To be safe you would have to call that person your 'sperm donor' or 'person who hung around with your mother' or 'male 'progenitor'. But that last one is risky too because of the meaning of 'progenitor'.

chevyontheriver · Jul 4, 2019

SaintNick said:
I never had this issue.
I always called my step dad by his first name.

After my father died my mom remarried. I never called him 'father' or any related word either.

Andrew77 · Jul 4, 2019

Shadowprophet said:
I and my friend are having a debate, about Fathers. My friend Believes that we aren't supposed to call anyone Father But The Lord God, And in Matthew 23:9 it does say that.

So I'm confused, are we not supposed to call our paternal Dad, Our Father?

I always read that in a spiritual context. Like calling someone pastor instead of father.

aiki · Jul 5, 2019

Shadowprophet said:
I and my friend are having a debate, about Fathers. My friend Believes that we aren't supposed to call anyone Father But The Lord God, And in Matthew 23:9 it does say that.

So I'm confused, are we not supposed to call our paternal Dad, Our Father?

The meaning of a verse is always best derived from the context in which it stands. In the case of Matthew 23:9, the context is that of Jesus' criticism of the Pharisees and scribes who loved authority and honor, to be noticed and revered, and given titles of respect like "Rabbi." In this context, Jesus says, "Call no man your father upon the earth; for One is your Father, who is in heaven." It was "Father" as a title of honor (as "Rabbi" was), not as a descriptor of a familial relationship, that Jesus is forbidding here. He was, essentially, saying that his audience ought not pander to the Pharisees' lust for the attention and deference of others - or to apply such a title to anyone craving it for reasons of vanity.

FanthatSpark · Jul 6, 2019

What is in a word? = Intention.
What/Who is our... first love?

It seems... We are taking the bible as a, how too appear righteous, in our actions? I did that as a conscious endevour and it broke me when I ran across this verse in literal aspect. Romans 3:10 . I then had sin as my first love for decades.

Try to look upon the bible as your book, written for you, in parts. The parts mentioned are what resignates to you alone sir. You have life experiences that certain scriptures speak too.

The verse that is a block speaks to ... What/who is our... First Love.<- This = , No man can teach Spirit like God can. No man can discipline like God can. No man can protect the soul like God can . No man can... etc, like God can.

So, to call your father a father or teacher a teacher is in intent of, do you put him above God, in your mind and actions. Jesus said he would break households up in this verse right here Luke 10:27 when a man applies that to first love,,, The flesh father & teacher usually can not abide to his son or the teacher their student listening/loving to God first , not all fathers & teachers, just most, as this is a pride issue.

God knows your intention good sir. Hope this helps muddy the waters even more, lol. Its whats inside of you, OP Author, to that question and more....

Call no man Father. (Needs Clarification)

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