Brian Houston resigns as global senior pastor of Hillsong Church for 'moral failure'

[Aussie Pete]

Well, he certainly hasn't been accused of paying hush money to porn actresses, but .... from the OP link:

“The first incident involved Pastor Brian text messaging with a female member of staff, which ended in an inappropriate text message along the lines of, ‘If I was with you, I’d like to give you a kiss and a cuddle, or a hug,’ words of that nature,” Pastor Dooley told the meeting."

Sure, it was certainly inappropriate and he needed to resign. I only intended to give a clearer picture of his behaviour. He's not Jimmy Swaggart or a host of other celebrity pastors who have fallen from grace.

I am no fan of the megachurch model and the "superstar" leadership that goes with it. However, I don't wish to see people accused of sin that they have not actually committed. Mr Houston has paid a high price for his indiscretions. Perhaps he should have been sanctioned the first occasion. He certainly failed the "eldership test".

 

[ThatRobGuy]

“The first incident involved Pastor Brian text messaging with a female member of staff, which ended in an inappropriate text message along the lines of, ‘If I was with you, I’d like to give you a kiss and a cuddle, or a hug,’ words of that nature,” Pastor Dooley told the meeting."

In all fairness, if that was the extent of the correspondence, that's pretty "PG".

...but who knows if that's the case, it could've been much worse and he's just doing damage control.

Therein lies the pitfall with trying to keep such a "high moral standard". When "I had few drinks and flirted with a woman" becomes a "scandal", it would seem certain people have painted themselves into corner by attempting to foist "moral purity" on everyone else.

 

[Aussie Pete]

In all fairness, if that was the extent of the correspondence, that's pretty "PG".

...but who knows if that's the case, it could've been much worse and he's just doing damage control.

Therein lies the pitfall with trying to keep such a "high moral standard". When "I had few drinks and flirted with a woman" becomes a "scandal", it would seem certain people have painted themselves into corner by attempting to foist "moral purity" on everyone else.

Christian leaders are subject to high standards. They know the deal. Even the appearance of impropriety is a problem.

It's more difficult for men now anyway. I won't pick up my grandchildren in public. Someone will call the cops. I've been threatened before now. I don't care about myself, but I would not subject kids to that scenario.

 

[Bradskii]

It's more difficult for men now anyway. I won't pick up my grandchildren in public. Someone will call the cops. I've been threatened before now.

Say what? In what circumstance would someone call the police if you're picking up your own grandkids? Whatever it would be then the situation would apply for the parents as well.

 

[Panevino]

The hillsong church (and churches that model after them) seems to me almost sexualised (I know that’s too strong) but there are always various attractive people on stage all dressed modestly yet attractively and all sway for an hour singing praise yet also eerily like a secular love song ballad, with closed eyes with all visual attention on the people on stage and there actions. It’s all very far from worship for me and not simply because of the summary I’ve made here. I dont know but I can see pretty easily the possibility the atmosphere makes for this kind of behaviour from someone like brian houston

 

[Aussie Pete]

Say what? In what circumstance would someone call the police if you're picking up your own grandkids? Whatever it would be then the situation would apply for the parents as well.

I'm 70. I'm male. There is a section of society that assumes all men are paedophiles. I was advised of this by the primary school teacher that refused to let me see my own children. I won that round. I would not leave the school until I saw my kids, and I took them away for a day. There was no court order preventing this. My ex called the cops. I had three senior cops banging on the door at midnight. They could do nothing except try and intimidate me. I took the kids back the next day. I was not in a position to care for the kids as I was working full time.

I heard many horror stories from "Parents without rights". I had to stop going to their meetings as I was getting even more depressed. This was 25 years ago. Nothing has changed. If anything, it's worse.

 

[Bradskii]

I'm 70. I'm male. There is a section of society that assumes all men are paedophiles. I was advised of this by the primary school teacher that refused to let me see my own children. I won that round. I would not leave the school until I saw my kids, and I took them away for a day. There was no court order preventing this. My ex called the cops. I had three senior cops banging on the door at midnight. They could do nothing except try and intimidate me. I took the kids back the next day. I was not in a position to care for the kids as I was working full time.

I heard many horror stories from "Parents without rights". I had to stop going to their meetings as I was getting even more depressed. This was 25 years ago. Nothing has changed. If anything, it's worse.

My apologies. Your situation is understandable. I'm sorry that you are in that position.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Hillsong founder Brian Houston has stepped down as the global senior pastor of the church after he was found to have breached its moral code in his behaviour with two women.

Hillsong accused of misusing church funds to pay for private jets, luxury retreats​

Tasmanian independent MP Andrew Wilkie has used leaked documents to allege Hillsong Church broke financial laws in Australia and around the world, while accusing founder Brian Houston of spending lavishly on private jets, luxury retreats, designer goods and custom skateboards.

Wilkie used parliamentary privilege on Thursday to make the allegations regarding the church’s finances, which he claims were leaked to him by a whistleblower, including that the church earned $80 million more income in Australia than it reported publicly.

Claims about Hillsong spending made in the documents include $82,000 on allowances for pastors and executive staff to purchase meals, $26,000 on entertainment, $37,000 on flowers, $171,000 on gifts, $288,000 on honorariums to guest speakers, $13,000 on high tea and more.

“Conversely, the amount spent on helping ‘people in need’ included just $2900 for pastoral care direct costs, and $1500 on pastoral care visitations,” the whistleblower’s documents allege.

A spokesman for Hillsong Church said it had been “open and transparent with our congregation about past governance failures, and over the past twelve months we have engaged independent, professional assistance to overhaul our governance and accountability procedures”.

“The claims made in federal parliament by Mr Andrew Wilkie are out of context and relate to untested allegations made by an employee in an ongoing legal case. These allegations, made under parliamentary privilege, are in many respects wrong, and it is disappointing he made no effort to contact us first. If he did so we would have answered his questions and provided him with financial records to address his concerns.”

 

[durangodawood]

Hillsong accused of misusing church funds to pay for private jets, luxury retreats​

...

Misusing?

Private jets and luxury retreats are the point!

 

[rjs330]

Is he one of those people who are very loud about how other people should behave?

This is a a GIGANTIC misunderstanding of the gospel. The point of the gospel and the teaching of scripture is telling us how we SHOULD behave. Not about making any claims that we WILL behave. In fact it's the opposite. That's part of the point. Scripture is clear that we SHOULD not commit adultery. And preaching the gospel is sharing that fact. And we are supposed to stive through the spirit not to do that because we see the damage that is done when we do.

Yet scripture tells us that all of us will fail in some way or another. If I were to accept your premise no one would be able to say anything ever. Because perfection is the only way to be pure enough to say anything. Yet people like Paul and Peter and John all admit they fail. Yet they wrote letter after letter teaching how we should behave despite the fact they have their own struggles to behave.

That's the point! If apostles cannot be perfect no one can be.

I know the world loves to mock someone who fails who is a Christian leader for his failure. If they had lived during the apostles time they would have done the same thing to them.

So if you are one who believes that pastors, teachers, Christians in general have to live in perfection in order to be able to speak on how we should live then you have totally missed the point. Because the scriptures apply to us all including the speaker. And God is clear in the scripture that God knows even though he tells us how to behave, he also knows that we will fail to behave. And that's why we need Christ and forgiveness.

 

[rjs330]

Therein lies the pitfall with trying to keep such a "high moral standard". When "I had few drinks and flirted with a woman" becomes a "scandal", it would seem certain people have painted themselves into corner by attempting to foist "moral purity" on everyone else.

It's not an individual that is foisting moral.purity. It is God doing it. People are only speaking what God says. It not their gospel or their message. It's God's. And it applies to everyone including the speaker.

 

[essentialsaltes]

People are only speaking what God says. It not their gospel or their message. It's God's. And it applies to everyone including the speaker.

Since these people don't have their own message, maybe it's not worth giving some jet-setting bozo 10% of your income (or whatever) for a message you can discern for yourself.

 

[Larniavc]

That's just human nature. We are our own worst critics.

No it isn't and we aren't. I think I'm great, for example.

 

[durangodawood]

This is a a GIGANTIC misunderstanding of the gospel. The point of the gospel and the teaching of scripture is telling us how we SHOULD behave. Not about making any claims that we WILL behave. In fact it's the opposite. That's part of the point. Scripture is clear that we SHOULD not commit adultery. And preaching the gospel is sharing that fact. And we are supposed to stive through the spirit not to do that because we see the damage that is done when we do.

Yet scripture tells us that all of us will fail in some way or another. If I were to accept your premise no one would be able to say anything ever. Because perfection is the only way to be pure enough to say anything. Yet people like Paul and Peter and John all admit they fail. Yet they wrote letter after letter teaching how we should behave despite the fact they have their own struggles to behave.

That's the point! If apostles cannot be perfect no one can be.

I know the world loves to mock someone who fails who is a Christian leader for his failure. If they had lived during the apostles time they would have done the same thing to them.

So if you are one who believes that pastors, teachers, Christians in general have to live in perfection in order to be able to speak on how we should live then you have totally missed the point. Because the scriptures apply to us all including the speaker. And God is clear in the scripture that God knows even though he tells us how to behave, he also knows that we will fail to behave. And that's why we need Christ and forgiveness.

Of course perfection is impossible. And even those who consciously strive to live properly fall short in various ways.

But that cannot be an excuse to apply zero discrimination re who you trust to be a moral leader. We need to place some lower limit on personal integrity in those we choose to follow. Preaching righteousness just becomes offensive when theyve dipped below that line. No need to exile them from society or anything. Just lets find better leaders.

 

[Bradskii]

Yet scripture tells us that all of us will fail in some way or another. If I were to accept your premise no one would be able to say anything ever. Because perfection is the only way to be pure enough to say anything.

Sure we all fail. I could give you a list of everything I failed at yesterday. We try not to be a bad husband or friend. We try to be a good father. We all try to do what's right. But c'mon...this guy wasn't even making the attempt. He's a hypocrite. And when people in positions of authority, who are there to try to make sure that we do right, to lead us by example, say one thing and do another, they are the worst kind of people to hold the positions they do.

I have nothing but contempt for the guy.

 

[essentialsaltes]

An Australian charity watchdog has announced it’s investigating Hillsong, following bombshell allegations the global megachurch engaged in mass money laundering, tax evasion, and fraud, and used church money “to do the kind of shopping that would embarrass a Kardashian.”

On Sunday, Dooley announced to his congregation that as a result of the allegations, Hillsong will commission a third-party evaluation of its financial structure and processes.

“Our structure and culture is changing and needs to change more to ensure we are held to (a) higher level of accountability and I welcome that,” Dooley said. “If we have been doing things in an excessive manner, or that are out of alignment with our mission, those things will stop. . . . I can’t change the past but I can play a significant role in changing the future.”

Dooley said one of those changes is that 153 Hillsong staff had chosen to voluntarily resign, saving more than $9.47 million a year.

-

The document also states that several “mega-wealthy celebrity pastors from overseas are taking advantage of Australian tax-exemptions by establishing Christian religious ‘ministries’ in Australia.” These ministries then “feed income back to their overseas entities.”

Those engaging in this practice include Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland, Chris Oyakhilome, Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, Jesse Duplantis, and Christine Caine, the document stated.