Biblical conspiracies?

[newkittens]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that says that many things depicted in the Bible were taken from earlier religious traditions? I've had an interest in this for a while, and I've found some interesting facts that I can't debunk. This article summarizes the theory well:
http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Old Testament.html
Does anyone else have any thoughts or sources on this topic? It interests me a lot but I'm still looking to learn more.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that says that many things depicted in the Bible were taken from earlier religious traditions?

Decades ago I read some about this - but it is just deception and just a theory that's been debunked ....
YHWH(GOD) taught HIS people very different and contrary to all the other nations around them,
and YHWH taught HIS people very specifically, set apart from all other nations, and directly,
and told them, always NOT to study other nations or pagan ways and NOT to learn their practices.

 

[Dave-W]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that says that many things depicted in the Bible were taken from earlier religious traditions?

Actually OUR religious tradition goes back to Adam. Everyone else just got theirs as a corruption of what we already had back then.

 

[timewerx]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that says that many things depicted in the Bible were taken from earlier religious traditions? I've had an interest in this for a while, and I've found some interesting facts that I can't debunk. This article summarizes the theory well:
http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Old Testament.html
Does anyone else have any thoughts or sources on this topic? It interests me a lot but I'm still looking to learn more.

I think so sometimes. It was particularly with Ancient Egyptian myths. Jesus went to Egypt btw and Ancient Egypt had some quite potent wisdom in terms of the supernatural reality.

The trend somehow continued in the modern times where supposedly "Christian" traditions were originally pagan traditions and Christianity simply renamed and re-themed it like x-mas, easter, etc.

It's a recurring pattern it seems. That sometimes I think things have become so obscure, it's hard to see which is real anymore.

I Trust Jesus but what if indeed he came with ancient wisdom that was with Egypt but distorted from history due to Jewish animosity with Ancient Egypt?

 

[Rick Otto]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that says that many things depicted in the Bible were taken from earlier religious traditions? I've had an interest in this for a while, and I've found some interesting facts that I can't debunk. This article summarizes the theory well:
http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Old Testament.html
Does anyone else have any thoughts or sources on this topic? It interests me a lot but I'm still looking to learn more.

The reverse may be more true.
Christmas and Easter are bogus, but virgin birth of a messiah is as old as Genesis.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

" Then opened HE their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"
Y'SHUA the GOOD SHEPHERD KNOWS PERFECT. AND Reveals Perfect. And Simple. TRUTH.
Perfect HARMONY COMPLETE and WHOLE.
Never any contradiction with HIS WORD.

It's a recurring pattern it seems. That sometimes I think things have become so obscure, it's hard to see which is real anymore.

 

[StarTemple]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that says that many things depicted in the Bible were taken from earlier religious traditions? I've had an interest in this for a while, and I've found some interesting facts that I can't debunk. This article summarizes the theory well:
http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Old Testament.html
Does anyone else have any thoughts or sources on this topic? It interests me a lot but I'm still looking to learn more.

Do you believe in the deluge of Noah's day? Ever read of them 70 nations of Genesis 10?

Well, consider ALL of them were told what happened by Ham, Shem, Japheth, their wives and Noah and his wife FACE TO FACE.

Think perhaps that basic truthful story is therefore in all nations?

Some things found in the Bible are found in other records because certain things are comprehensive in human historical roots BECAUSE THEY ARE THE TRUTH.

 

[Geoff m]

The trend somehow continued in the modern times where supposedly "Christian" traditions were originally pagan traditions and Christianity simply renamed and re-themed it like x-mas, easter, etc.

the reason why the Christian celebrations are at those points in the calender is because the pagan festivities that fell close to those dates like the winter solstice = xmas was to encourage the pagans to continue celebrating over a Christian event, and hence eventually converting them to Christian faith

 

[John 1720]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that says that many things depicted in the Bible were taken from earlier religious traditions? I've had an interest in this for a while, and I've found some interesting facts that I can't debunk. This article summarizes the theory well:
http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Old Testament.html
Does anyone else have any thoughts or sources on this topic? It interests me a lot but I'm still looking to learn more.

The authors of see_the_truth claim that “The entire Bible is an extremely powerful subliminal tool full of occult numbers, messages, allegories, and stolen material, which has been corrupted from ancient religions.” They do this without providing a shred of evidence for his claims.

It is those who make claims against the integrity of the Bible that bear the burden of proof. The authors of this website do not offer evidences. I therefore reject the source.

 

[timewerx]

the reason why the Christian celebrations are at those points in the calender is because the pagan festivities that fell close to those dates like the winter solstice = xmas was to encourage the pagans to continue celebrating over a Christian event, and hence eventually converting them to Christian faith

Jesus did not command us to "market" the Gospel in a deceitful manner (false advertisement) as the heathens do.

And not to borrow ideas from heathens.

- If they will not accept you, leave that place and shake the dust off your feet....Matthew 10:14

Jesus did not commanded us to "if they will not accept you, try again and market the Gospel as the heathens do and make it look like their holidays/festivities..."

What Jesus said, "do not go into the way of the Gentiles". It could either mean do not go to their places literally OR do not adopt their ways OR both!

 

[John 1720]

Jesus did not command us to "market" the Gospel in a deceitful manner (false advertisement) as the heathens do.

And not to borrow ideas from heathens.

- If they will not accept you, leave that place and shake the dust off your feet....Matthew 10:14
Jesus did not commanded us to "if they will not accept you, try again and market the Gospel as the heathens do and make it look like their holidays/festivities..."

What Jesus said, "do not go into the way of the Gentiles". It could either mean do not go to their places literally OR do not adopt their ways OR both!

Agree all around.
Early on Jesus told His 70 not to physically go in the way of the Gentiles.

These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.

I believe that directive was according to God's promised order of precedent, namely that salvation would first be established within the nation of Israel - the mustard seed of the nations. It's hard not to see or ignore that the Revelation of Christ Jesus clearly had a divine order of precedence to its roll-out.

That said the OT prophesies also confirmed the light of Christ would be seen by the Gentiles

that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:
Isaiah

• Nevertheless the gloom will not be upon her who is distressed, as when at first He lightly esteemed. The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward more heavily oppressed her, by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, in Galilee of the Gentiles.
• The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; Those who dwelt in the land of the shadow of death, Upon them a light has shined.

Matthew

• "The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles: The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, and upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death Light has dawned."

The fulfillment of Christological prophesy in Matthew 4:13

• And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali
• Matthew Henry: "The country beyond Jordan is mentioned likewise, for there we sometimes find Christ preaching, and Galilee of the Gentiles, the upper Galilee to which the Gentiles resorted for traffic, and where they were mingled with the Jews; which intimates a kindness in reserve for the poor Gentiles.

But I do believe Jesus admonshment about 'not going in the way of the Gentiles' t was metaphorical, as Jesus later admonished His followers not to emulate the ways of the Gentiles.

Matthew 6:31-32
"Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear? For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

Matthew 20:25-26 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. "Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant.

But Jesus' miraculous multiplication unveils the Gospel is for both Jew and Gentiles

“When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?” “Twelve,” they replied.”And when I broke the seven loaves for the four thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?” They answered, “Seven.” He said to them, “Do you still not understand?”.

There were seven Gentile nations and twelve tribes within Israel. Jesus' first miracle of the multiplication of the loaves and fishes resulted in 12 baskets of leftovers, representing the twelve tribes. Jesus' second miracle of the loaves and fishes resulted in 7 baskets of leftovers representing the 7 Gentile nation within the Israeli proper as recorded in the OT.

So shall we who are gathered to Christ be multiplied like the loves and fishes as we are blessed by Jesus.
Praise God who sent Christ to make a Way for Jew and Gentile believers, when there was no other way to be rescued from man's fatal fall. In our Adamic nature we have all sinned and fallen short of God's standard of purity. There was no human way in which to overcome our inherent corruption but God, while we were yet sinners shows His love for us by sending His Son,the promised seed, born of a virgin. to redeem man. Thus every believer whether Jew or Gentile, representatives from every nation (ethne') is vested as new creation in Christ Jesus. As He conquered death and rose we who are in Him by the Spirit of God shall also rise and hence we shall always be with our Lord - the second Adam from above.

We need to finish the work by broadcasting His message to all ethne', knowing that He is on mission with us as we remain in the Holy Spirit to carry out His co-mission - the work remaining for the work He already accomplished."

• Matt 24:14 “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
• Mark 13:10 “And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations.
• Galatians 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

And we have nothing to fear as the day of the GC's completion approaches, more rapidly today than ever before as all continents are embracing the Gospel and more Muslim's are being converted now than in all of history put together:

• Matthew 24:14 “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
• Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying,
  • "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
  • Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
  • baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
  • teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;
  • and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
  • Amen.

In Christ, Pat

 

[Steve Petersen]

Actually OUR religious tradition goes back to Adam.

The texts don't though. The oldest extant OT texts are from the Dead Sea caves and date about 200 BCE.

 

[John 1720]

The texts don't though. The oldest extant OT texts are from the Dead Sea caves and date about 200 BCE.

The oldest extant copies go back to 200 BC but that is not to say that those are the original autographs. I see no reason to disbelieve the Penatuch traces back to Moses (c.a. 1500 BC) about the time writing first appeared. The fact that we have texts that are over 2200 years old in and of itself is a miracle. An analogy would be we can't date Homer back to ancient Greece just because we don't have the autographs so it must have been written several centuries afterwards.

 

[Steve Petersen]

The oldest extant copies go back to 200 BC but that is not to say that those are the original autographs. I see no reason to disbelieve the Penatuch traces back to Moses (c.a. 1500 BC) about the time writing first appeared. The fact that we have texts that are over 2200 years old in and of itself is a miracle. An analogy would be we can't date Homer back to ancient Greece just because we don't have the autographs so it must have been written several centuries afterwards.

I am aware of older manuscripts from other cultures, but most of them are preserved in stone or clay.

With regard to Homer: do you believe that Homer was accurately transmitted until he was written down?

 

[Rick Otto]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that says that many things depicted in the Bible were taken from earlier religious traditions? I've had an interest in this for a while, and I've found some interesting facts that I can't debunk. This article summarizes the theory well:
http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Old Testament.html
Does anyone else have any thoughts or sources on this topic? It interests me a lot but I'm still looking to learn more.

Yeah, pretty convincing stuff but...
The Jews have traditions concerning the life of Adam post garden, wherein Adam is taught a lot of these very things that may have from there entered into later belief systems. The virgin birth and messiah themes for instance, the devil himself heard first hand in Genesis.

 

[John 1720]

I am aware of older manuscripts from other cultures, but most of them are preserved in stone or clay.

With regard to Homer: do you believe that Homer was accurately transmitted until he was written down?

Manuscripts on papyrus is a whole different class with respect to preservation. So most archaeologists would agree their preservation quite miraculous. The DSS also speaks to the great care that was taken in transmitting the Bible down through the centuries. Have you seen or read the translation of the Isaiah scroll? It is remarkable and stunning, though not written on papyrus as the others.
No one can say the same for Homer. Although I see no reason for at least the essence of his story to have been preserved there may have been more contextualization license given to adaptation. I'm not sure what your implication in comparing the integrity of its transmission to that of the Bible?Transmission of an epic would not generate the same amount of care as transmitting the Bible. The Hebrews, as well as I, consider the Bible to be a Holy Book, the word of God, hence greater care and scrutiny would have been taken in order to preserve the literal context.
You mention other cultures with regard to other transmission mediums. There are no shortages related to the Hebrews here and they're still diggings up more. A few examples would be the amulet with Bible verse on it, found at Ketef Hinnom in the 1970's. It dates back to at least 600 BC, pre Judean Babylonian exile thus pre-Nehemiah. There are also the pottery sherds found at Khirbet Qeiyafa which date to the time of David, c.a. 1000 BC, with religious inscriptions pottery which correlate to Hebrew Bible teachings. So Hebrew culture and support for the religion of the Hebrews is very much on solid ground.
Regards, Pat