Bait of Satan: Destructive?

[dereckbc]

All I need opinions and suggestions on how to handle a delicate situation I have found myself in. I live in Sherman TX, 50 years of age, and have rediscovered Christ again..

In my youth I was raised Baptist, rebelled at age 14 because the church did not approve of me playing guitar and playing 60/70 music. In my twenties I was married into a Catholic family, and exposed to the faith and really did not have any major problems. But I divorced and lost contact.

I am educated in science and now 20 years later I find something missing in my life, and know what it is, and now seek Christ. So about a year ago I started searching for a Church. I found an AOG Church which I can support. They have a very good Pastor which appears very educated in theology, sincere, and teaches from doctrine unlike some of the other Pentecostal non denominational branches in the area. So in other words up to now I was happy with my choice.

I have attended this Church for about a year now. I was recently asked to join as a member which I accepted last week. Now I am confronted with a problem, and do not quite know how to handle it.

The Sunday School I attend is taught by the Pastors wife who is educated in Theology. We are currently doing a book study from the BAIT OF SATAN written by John Bevere. The premise of the book: is: It is a SIN to take OFFENSE from others, especially the CHURCH. I may be a newb, but there is no scripture to support this premise: In fact from my understanding quite the opposite is true. If I were to follow that logic God and Jesus owe us all a confession and repentance as habitual sinners. The whole Old Testament is about God being offended in most of the books. Anger and jealously are attributes of God. Not to mention Jesus was recorded in history to trash the Temple Courts because he was offended by profiteers.

All comments, suggestions, and opinions, are welcome. I will not take offense because I do not know you and you are not close enough to hurt me...

Dereck

 

[the.Sheepdog]

I am sure you will hear from at least two and you can probably guess who they might be. LOL! Let me say brother that I rejoice in your return to the Lord. Their is no greater joy for me than hearing a testimony of coming to or coming back to Jesus. The best time I can remember in a church was in an AoG church. Dont think the whole place has a problem just because you disagree with this one book. I personally think you should get an appt and go talk with the Pastor. Just tell him you have concerns about the book and let him know what you think. It will be fine.

You are in a family now. A family that wants to be family and will not take offense if you are sincere and polite about your concern. It will be fine brother!

And welcome to the family!

 

[stormdancer0]

I answered on the other thread, but the gist of it was what Sheepdog said. Of course, there are ways to do it without upsetting anyone. Emphasize how the pastor's teaching has led you to do Bible study at home as well, and you just can't seem to reconcile the book "Bait of Satan" with the Bible. Take specific examples. Ask for his wisdom. Perhaps this pastor has only read a synopsis of the book, and doesn't know what it really says.

 

[mtchristiangirl]

The other thing I have done in the past is just not participating in that particular study. My husband and I looked around for awhile for a church we really liked and felt at home. We had to learn that while there may be a few things we do not necessarily like, we needed to agree with the teachings on Sundays and overall operation of church.
I do agree that you could go talk to the pastor and with your examples be able to find out his thoughts also.

Congrats on coming back to GOD! Prayer will also help you in deciding how to handle this. Good luck.

 

[Robin Salmansohn]

All I need opinions and suggestions on how to handle a delicate situation I have found myself in. I live in Sherman TX, 50 years of age, and have rediscovered Christ again..

In my youth I was raised Baptist, rebelled at age 14 because the church did not approve of me playing guitar and playing 60/70 music. In my twenties I was married into a Catholic family, and exposed to the faith and really did not have any major problems. But I divorced and lost contact.

I am educated in science and now 20 years later I find something missing in my life, and know what it is, and now seek Christ. So about a year ago I started searching for a Church. I found an AOG Church which I can support. They have a very good Pastor which appears very educated in theology, sincere, and teaches from doctrine unlike some of the other Pentecostal non denominational branches in the area. So in other words up to now I was happy with my choice.

I have attended this Church for about a year now. I was recently asked to join as a member which I accepted last week. Now I am confronted with a problem, and do not quite know how to handle it.

The Sunday School I attend is taught by the Pastors wife who is educated in Theology. We are currently doing a book study from the BAIT OF SATAN written by John Bevere. The premise of the book: is: It is a SIN to take OFFENSE from others, especially the CHURCH. I may be a newb, but there is no scripture to support this premise: In fact from my understanding quite the opposite is true. If I were to follow that logic God and Jesus owe us all a confession and repentance as habitual sinners. The whole Old Testament is about God being offended in most of the books. Anger and jealously are attributes of God. Not to mention Jesus was recorded in history to trash the Temple Courts because he was offended by profiteers.

All comments, suggestions, and opinions, are welcome. I will not take offense because I do not know you and you are not close enough to hurt me...

Dereck

This is not directly related to the thread, but then again, it is.


I am Pentacostal. The question could have come from any denomination of Christian. (For that matter, from other faiths). What does AOG have to do with it? I still have no idea what difference is there between AOG, Pentacost, and a few other similar denominatins. I suppose the question should have been, What are the differences between COC, AOG, and Pentacostal?

 

[stormdancer0]

This is not directly related to the thread, but then again, it is.


I am Pentacostal. The question could have come from any denomination of Christian. (For that matter, from other faiths). What does AOG have to do with it? I still have no idea what difference is there between AOG, Pentacost, and a few other similar denominatins. I suppose the question should have been, What are the differences between COC, AOG, and Pentacostal?

I think that the church he happens to be going to is AOG. I don't think the issue is related to the denomination. As you said, it could have been any denomination.

As for differences, AOG and COG are two groups of churches in the Pentecostal movement. There are some differences, but I'm not sure what they are. All I know is COG.

 

[ydouxist]

Hi Dereck

I live in Lewisville btw.
I disagree with the statement," It is a SIN to take OFFENSE from "others, especially the CHURCH. Like you said Jesus overturned the moneychangers tables. It offended him. We will all be offended.
The problem is what do you with the offense? If you hold it against the person or persons it could lead to bitterness or unforgiveness. Paul said not to sin in your anger he didn't say don't get angry. The Gospel will offend some people.
Are we not to share it with them so as to not be offensive thus causing them to sin? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[dereckbc]

I disagree with the statement," It is a SIN to take OFFENSE from "others, especially the CHURCH. Like you said Jesus overturned the moneychangers tables. It offended him. We will all be offended.
The problem is what do you with the offense?

ydouxist thank you for your reply and it has inspired me to follow up.

So last Sunday (Super Bowl Sunday) I went to the Sunday School class. So after prayer request, the instructor asked if anyone had read through the assigned chapters and worked through the Supplement work guide in the back or the book.

So I saw the door open and asked:
Is the premise of the book that it is a sin to take offense?

Some students spoke up and said that is what they understood. Then the instructor said, that interpretation was not accurate, and the word offense from the bible does not translate well in English and comes from the Greek definition. She followed up with it is what we do with the offense that could cause us to commit sin like take revenge and fall into a Trap, or Bait of Satan.

I said: OK, but that does not jive with the authors examples like this diatribe from the book: John Bevere gave in the book The Author tells a story when he was young and an associate pastor at a church there was another associate pastor there that was trying to get him fired, and the problem festered for several months but he chose to remain silent because God told him to. This same associate pastor was also trying to get other pastors fired at this church. Apparently there were a lot of memos flying around between the senior pastor and staff trying to figure out what was going on.

Then the senior called John into for a conference. John claims at this point he had documented evidence this offending pastor was abusing members and committing illegal acts. So when John reaches the senior pastors office and the pastor asked him what was going on; John said he had no knowledge, he lied He claims God told him not to spill the beans and let him (God) take care of it.

Well another 6-months past and apparently the senior pastor found out what was going on and fired the offending pastor. John then concludes he took the right course of action by trusting God.

Well that did not sit to good on the instructor, and changed the subject and moved on. Well for lack of better word, what the heck? That gives me the impression we are suppose to ignore offense and let someone else deal with a problem, so don’t worry about, not your job.

Well I maybe a newbie, but I sure seem to recall a verse in the bible that says we as Christians shall address sin frankly otherwise we share guilt of the sin. Or something like that, do not know the book, chapter, or verse where it comes from.

 

[stormdancer0]

Well, there's not being offended, and there's "leaving things in God's hands." Once we point out a sin lovingly, it is up to God to convict. However, if this pastor was committing illegal acts, and using his office as "pastor" to do so, we have and OBLIGATION to ourselves, to others, and to God, to deal with that situation. How many people can be led off course, or turned away from God, in six months? A LOT.

But the situation noted doesn't say that the man wasn't offended, just that he decided not to act. It was, in his opinion, the Head Pastor's job.

But there are some offenses we should ignore. Someone confronting me in a negative manner because I wear Christian T-Shirts, for instance. I'm called a bigot, close-minded, intolerant, etc. Also because I teach my children about God. But because people don't want to believe there's a God, they attack me for teaching this to my kids. I don't take offense. It is their ignorance speaking. I figure the harder they scratch and claw, the more convicted they are. I don't argue, and I don't take offense. Of course, this makes them madder, but that's just a fringe benefit!! (Forgive me, Lord!)

I would probably just drop the class. It sounds like possibly the teacher is interpreting the book differently than you are.

 

[Robin Salmansohn]

ydouxist thank you for your reply and it has inspired me to follow up.

So last Sunday (Super Bowl Sunday) I went to the Sunday School class. So after prayer request, the instructor asked if anyone had read through the assigned chapters and worked through the Supplement work guide in the back or the book.

So I saw the door open and asked:
Is the premise of the book that it is a sin to take offense?

Some students spoke up and said that is what they understood. Then the instructor said, that interpretation was not accurate, and the word offense from the bible does not translate well in English and comes from the Greek definition. She followed up with it is what we do with the offense that could cause us to commit sin like take revenge and fall into a Trap, or Bait of Satan.

I said: OK, but that does not jive with the authors examples like this diatribe from the book: John Bevere gave in the book The Author tells a story when he was young and an associate pastor at a church there was another associate pastor there that was trying to get him fired, and the problem festered for several months but he chose to remain silent because God told him to. This same associate pastor was also trying to get other pastors fired at this church. Apparently there were a lot of memos flying around between the senior pastor and staff trying to figure out what was going on.

Then the senior called John into for a conference. John claims at this point he had documented evidence this offending pastor was abusing members and committing illegal acts. So when John reaches the senior pastors office and the pastor asked him what was going on; John said he had no knowledge, he lied He claims God told him not to spill the beans and let him (God) take care of it.

Well another 6-months past and apparently the senior pastor found out what was going on and fired the offending pastor. John then concludes he took the right course of action by trusting God.

Well that did not sit to good on the instructor, and changed the subject and moved on. Well for lack of better word, what the heck? That gives me the impression we are suppose to ignore offense and let someone else deal with a problem, so don’t worry about, not your job.

Well I maybe a newbie, but I sure seem to recall a verse in the bible that says we as Christians shall address sin frankly otherwise we share guilt of the sin. Or something like that, do not know the book, chapter, or verse where it comes from.

You can only be offended if you take something said as an offense. If you were a member of a race, cussed at by using a 'blue word', and had heard that utterance but chose not consider the sounds as offensive, then you would not be offended by 'noise'. Is it a sin not to be offend?

There are times to live and there are times to die. If you are under threat of death, you are supposed to defend yourself as well as your family.
But not so much hate which controls you and continues to hate (as a poison) because of our weakness of not forgiving.

Situation ethics can be odd. My niece was almost killed in 9/11. The only reason that she is alive is because she was late for a job interview in one the twin towers. Karen was working and living in New Jersey. Because she was late for a job interview in N.Y., she went to back to her regular job (in N.J.).

When the planes hit, one of the ladies who was Karen's co-workers husband had worked in one of the twin towers. The lady was speaking her husband, in conversation, when he had called her saying that they were having a fire drill, and hold supper for him. That was the last thing that she heard her husband say.

Karen, my niece, had to be hosed down because she was covered in the ashes of buildings and from pieces of human beings. Karen forgave. Not many people in the world forgave.

When we (Christians) do not forgive, we are practicing situational ethics.

Christians are supposed to be offended by attacks on Christ.

I had heard of a pastor who announced to the congregation that he had committed adultery with one of the women in the church, and had said that he was no longer qualified to be a minister. He walked out.

When you become a minister, you have certain responsibilities to your flock. We had discussed this matter in our church. My Pastor had said that he should not have left, but rather should have asked for forgiveness and should have continued.

 

[lismore]

All comments, suggestions, and opinions, are welcome. I will not take offense because I do not know you and you are not close enough to hurt me...
Dereck

Hi Derek

Welcome. Its good to have you here.

On a more general point I asked people a few years ago, why have a bible study and use study books, rather than just studying the bible itself?

Bible study books are probably written by sincere Christians, but the material has been intepreted and is not the same as direct scripture.

God Bless You