Are you in the Faith, or are you on the Cross?

[BNR32FAN]

I agree with you, the enemy will try to convince you that you need to do something in order to be saved. Like donate money, or pray for hours on end. There is no works we can do to earn God's grace or gift of salvation. We are saved through faith.

The enemy will also promote lukewarm faith, aka a dead and useless faith.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You are not righteous, if you do righteous works.
Trying to be a clone of Jesus, never saved anyone.
So, that verse, is symbolic, and more....

"The WORK of God, is that YOU BELIEVE on the One whom God sent".

So, see how the bible poses - yet cloaks that spiritual reality? It says that you trusting in Christ, is "GOD's Work."
That's interesting isn't it, Reader.
Its saying that the only work of God, is YOU Trusting in Christ. But, that is not quite what the verse means..
So, do you see the layers of mystical/spiritual that you have to go thru to get to the revealed LIGHT? And many verses in the Bible are exactly like this, and that is why so many Christians are as confused as a Monkey in a Mall. As they understand it completely WRONG,= because they don't know how to spiritually discern anything, much less the words of God.
That verse is teaching that there is only ONE WORK that God accepts from you, to save you.
And its not commandment keeping, or enduring to the end, or keeping the Torah.
The one WORK OF GOD that you are to COMPLETE= is to TRUST IN HIS SON.
Thats "Salvation".

That’s a direct contradiction. There’s a difference between good works resulting from love and doing good works to earn salvation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

“If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:2‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[Behold]

This does not mean that our works in any way play a role in our salvation but the motivation behind those works is what counts. Is our desire self serving or God serving. Does is stem from a selfish desire like self righteousness and recognition or does it stem from love for others and love for God. Those who believe in Christ and desire to do good works out of love for God and others will be saved despite their imperfections but those who do good works as a means to earn self righteousness will not be saved regardless of whether they believe in Christ or not because the scriptures say that those who seek to justify themselves thru their works have denied the necessity of Christ’s sacrifice.


So when you view the word pisteuo as only pertaining to the definition of the English word believe verses like John 15:1-10 don’t make any sense because it completely eliminates any inner conviction or desire to actually serve God as being a necessity for receiving salvation. If a person has this inner conviction and desire to serve God then he will bear fruit and so long as he keeps this inner conviction he will abide in Christ. Simply acknowledging that Christ existed without any desire to serve God will save no one. This is why the definition of the English word believe does not fit the context of the scriptures and appears to contradict other verses.

Lets talk about this "abide in Christ" verse, as you seem to be teaching that by this SELF EFFORT to abide in Christ, you are kept saved.
So, thats a problem. Because that is a person who is trusting in ABIDING, which is self effort, as their savior.

Let me try that again.
Anything that you think and believe that you have to DO, to keep yourself saved, has replaced Jesus, as YOUR savior.

And again....

A person is asked, .. what do you think keeps you saved. "
They answer. :

1. Water baptism
2. enduring to the end
3 obedience
4. keeping the commandments
5. confessing my sins regularly
6. Penance
7. Living Holy

So, do you see what im showing you Reader?
Im showing you, that their LIST OF ....MUST DO THIS< MUST DO THAT,,,,, is what the believe keeps them SAVED. Which means, that LIST has replaced JESUS as what they BELIEVE is keeping them saved, = is now their FAITH.
So, that person, has become a legalist, has "fallen from Grace", is now in the "flesh", and are become a "self saver", who has a list of works that they TRUST,.... that they BELIEVE that if they DO THESE, then they wont LOSE THEIR SALVATION.
Which means, reader, whatever you have on your list, that you BELIEVE you have to do to stay saved, has Replaced JESUS on the Cross.
You can no longer truthfully say...."im only trusting in CHRIST to keep me saved", as Jesus will then say to you, "No, you have a LIST That has replaced me, that you now TRUST", and that is why you argue against GRACE without WORKS on this Forum and everywhere else.

And, Yes, its hard to admit this about yourself , when you realize it, and it wont help you to run to the commentary that ruined your faith in Christ, or back to the Church that did it to you, or to some misunderstood verse about "and men gathered them and they were cast into the fire" to try to reassure yourself that its ok to trust in your self effort LIST instead of Jesus ALONE< to keep you saved.
However, its not ok.
You are NOT <>IN>< The Faith. You are IN your self righteousness, that is defined by your LIST that has become your savior that you TEACH is how to stay saved.

 

[Soyeong]

The NT tells you, if you are born again, to be "in the faith".....to make certain of this....
2nd Corinthians 13:5
It does not tell you to be "IN the commandments" or "IN the law", or anything that has to do with performance or self effort .. as how to be "IN the FAITH".
Jesus gave you some commandments, but you can do those and be water baptised and not even be born again, and many lost tho devout religious people are practicing the words of Jesus while never being born again... (and that wont save you).

The reason it says to be "in the Faith", is because you are "justified by Faith", and "its impossible to please God without FAITH". And "the work of God is that you believe on the one (by Faith) whom God SENT".

Salvation is "Grace THRU Faith...without works," = NO commandment keeping, enduring to the end, water baptism, keeping the Torah, or anything else that JESUS DIDN'T Do on the Cross to SAVE YOU..

Do you want to know if you are in the faith OR if you are stuck in your own self righteousness and personal Cross rejecting Legalism.?
Lets find out what God already knows about you, that might come as a really big surprise to you.

I can show you how you can find out if you are on the Cross trying to save yourself, or if Jesus is on the Cross and you have faith alone In Him (Salvation) to get you into heaven.

Are you ready to face the truth about yourself?
Are you ready to find out if you are in the Faith, or if you are on the Cross?
Self Deception is perfectly shattered right where true personal discovery actually starts.

Here are the 2 Questions....... and be HONEST.

1.) If you knew you were going to die, in 2 mins......What are you trusting in right NOW, .... To get you to Heaven ? ????

2.) Who or what are you trusting in, to KEEP YOU SAVED ?


Your answers prove if you are in the faith, or if you are hanging on your own cross, and have become a "self saver".... A Legalist.....someone who trying by self effort to do only what Christ alone has DONE on The Cross FOR YOU, as "the Free Gift of salvation" "the gift of Righteousness".

So, are you on the Cross trying to keep yourself saved? Are you trying to keep yourself saved by YOUR WORKS and EFFORT and PERFORMANCE and commandment keeping and all that Self Performance stuff? IF so, you are NOT in the Faith.

If obedience to God's law were for God's good, then it would be about earning favor with God through our own efforts for which He would be obligated to repay us, however, obedience is for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so it is instead about putting our faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. Everyone who has faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live will obey His law and be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, but did not say that we earn our justification by obeying the law.

In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey his law, and in Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct how to do, so God teaching us to obey His law is itself the content of God's free gift of salvation. Furthermore, Titus 2:14 says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in what he accomplished on the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20) and will not return to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from. So obedience to God's law has never been about trying to earn our salvation, but rather it is what it looks like to receive the free gift of salvation. Our salvation is from sin and sin is disobedience to God's law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what being saved from living in disobedience to God's law looks like. There is no sense in someone wanting salvation from living in disobedience to God's law while wanting nothing to do with living in obedience to it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Lets talk about this "abide in Christ" verse, as you seem to be teaching that by this SELF EFFORT to abide in Christ, you are kept saved.
So, thats a problem. Because that is a person who is trusting in ABIDING, which is self effort, as their savior.

Let me try that again.
Anything that you think and believe that you have to DO, to keep yourself saved, has replaced Jesus, as YOUR savior.

And again....

A person is asked, .. what do you think keeps you saved. "
They answer. :

1. Water baptism
2. enduring to the end
3 obedience
4. keeping the commandments
5. confessing my sins regularly
6. Penance
7. Living Holy

So, do you see what im showing you Reader?
Im showing you, that their LIST OF ....MUST DO THIS< MUST DO THAT,,,,, is what the believe keeps them SAVED. Which means, that LIST has replaced JESUS as what they BELIEVE is keeping them saved, = is now their FAITH.
So, that person, has become a legalist, has "fallen from Grace", is now in the "flesh", and are become a "self saver", who has a list of works that they TRUST,.... that they BELIEVE that if they DO THESE, then they wont LOSE THEIR SALVATION.
Which means, reader, whatever you have on your list, that you BELIEVE you have to do to stay saved, has Replaced JESUS on the Cross.
You can no longer truthfully say...."im only trusting in CHRIST to keep me saved", as Jesus will then say to you, "No, you have a LIST That has replaced me, that you now TRUST", and that is why you argue against GRACE without WORKS on this Forum and everywhere else.

And, Yes, its hard to admit this about yourself , when you realize it, and it wont help you to run to the commentary that ruined your faith in Christ, or back to the Church that did it to you, or to some misunderstood verse about "and men gathered them and they were cast into the fire" to try to reassure yourself that its ok to trust in your self effort LIST instead of Jesus ALONE< to keep you saved.
However, its not ok.
You are NOT <>IN>< The Faith. You are IN your self righteousness, that is defined by your LIST that has become your savior that you TEACH is how to stay saved.

So that’s a no then right? Your saying we do not need to abide in Christ to receive salvation, correct? Because that would be a direct contradiction of what Jesus actually said. Are you familiar with the Greek words pistis, pisteuo, and pistos? When your studying your bible it’s very important to understand that the New Testament was written in Greek, not English, and many of the Greek words actually entail more in their definition than the English words that were used in the translation. So very often the English words that were used do not fully encompass the full message that the authors were trying to convey. And just for the record I didn’t come to my understanding of God’s word by commentaries or a church, I came to it by studying the scriptures, early church writings, the Greek and Hebrew definitions, and a lot of prayer. I would recommend opening yourself to other possibilities and test your own beliefs. CF is a great place to meet other Christians and find out what they believe and why they believe it. Then research it and see if there’s any scriptural support to it or if there’s any contradictions. Paul said that we should test our beliefs and hold to that which is good. I believe it is always good to view different perspectives of God’s word in order to make a more educated decision on what His true message is. I pray that God will guide us both to the true understanding of His Word the way He intended it. Have a blessed day.

 

[BobRyan]

The NT tells you, if you are born again, to be "in the faith".....to make certain of this....
2nd Corinthians 13:5
It does not tell you to be "IN the commandments" or "IN the law", or anything that has to do with performance or self effort .. as how to be "IN the FAITH".
Jesus gave you some commandments, but you can do those and be water baptised and not even be born again, and many lost tho devout religious people are practicing the words of Jesus while never being born again... (and that wont save you).

The reason it says to be "in the Faith", is because you are "justified by Faith", and "its impossible to please God without FAITH". And "the work of God is that you believe on the one (by Faith) whom God SENT".

Salvation is "Grace THRU Faith...without works," = NO commandment keeping, enduring to the end, water baptism, keeping the Torah, or anything else that JESUS DIDN'T Do on the Cross to SAVE YOU..

Do you want to know if you are in the faith OR if you are stuck in your own self righteousness and personal Cross rejecting Legalism.?
Lets find out what God already knows about you, that might come as a really big surprise to you.

I can show you how you can find out if you are on the Cross trying to save yourself, or if Jesus is on the Cross and you have faith alone In Him (Salvation) to get you into heaven.

Are you ready to face the truth about yourself?
Are you ready to find out if you are in the Faith, or if you are on the Cross?
Self Deception is perfectly shattered right where true personal discovery actually starts.

Here are the 2 Questions....... and be HONEST.

1.) If you knew you were going to die, in 2 mins......What are you trusting in right NOW, .... To get you to Heaven ? ????

2.) Who or what are you trusting in, to KEEP YOU SAVED ?


Your answers prove if you are in the faith, or if you are hanging on your own cross, and have become a "self saver".... A Legalist.....someone who trying by self effort to do only what Christ alone has DONE on The Cross FOR YOU, as "the Free Gift of salvation" "the gift of Righteousness".

So, are you on the Cross trying to keep yourself saved? Are you trying to keep yourself saved by YOUR WORKS and EFFORT and PERFORMANCE and commandment keeping and all that Self Performance stuff? IF so, you are NOT in the Faith.

Hebrews 8:8-11 New Covenant
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
11 “And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For all will know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 “For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.”


Romans 10 -- "faith comes from hearing and hearing by the Word of God"
Matthew 7 "by their fruits you shall know them"

Romans 2
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
...
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Rom 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

1 John 5:2-3 "2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."

Eph 6:1-2 the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise"

1 John 2
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; ... 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Gal 2:20 "crucified with Christ - I no longer live.. Jesus Christ now lives in me"

 

[Scott Husted]

The NT tells you, if you are born again, to be "in the faith".....to make certain of this....
2nd Corinthians 13:5
It does not tell you to be "IN the commandments" or "IN the law", or anything that has to do with performance or self effort .. as how to be "IN the FAITH".
Jesus gave you some commandments, but you can do those and be water baptised and not even be born again, and many lost tho devout religious people are practicing the words of Jesus while never being born again... (and that wont save you).

The reason it says to be "in the Faith", is because you are "justified by Faith", and "its impossible to please God without FAITH". And "the work of God is that you believe on the one (by Faith) whom God SENT".

Salvation is "Grace THRU Faith...without works," = NO commandment keeping, enduring to the end, water baptism, keeping the Torah, or anything else that JESUS DIDN'T Do on the Cross to SAVE YOU..

Do you want to know if you are in the faith OR if you are stuck in your own self righteousness and personal Cross rejecting Legalism.?
Lets find out what God already knows about you, that might come as a really big surprise to you.

I can show you how you can find out if you are on the Cross trying to save yourself, or if Jesus is on the Cross and you have faith alone In Him (Salvation) to get you into heaven.

Are you ready to face the truth about yourself?
Are you ready to find out if you are in the Faith, or if you are on the Cross?
Self Deception is perfectly shattered right where true personal discovery actually starts.

Here are the 2 Questions....... and be HONEST.

1.) If you knew you were going to die, in 2 mins......What are you trusting in right NOW, .... To get you to Heaven ? ????

2.) Who or what are you trusting in, to KEEP YOU SAVED ?


Your answers prove if you are in the faith, or if you are hanging on your own cross, and have become a "self saver".... A Legalist.....someone who trying by self effort to do only what Christ alone has DONE on The Cross FOR YOU, as "the Free Gift of salvation" "the gift of Righteousness".

So, are you on the Cross trying to keep yourself saved? Are you trying to keep yourself saved by YOUR WORKS and EFFORT and PERFORMANCE and commandment keeping and all that Self Performance stuff? IF so, you are NOT in the Faith.

This depends on your perception of the cross, and the application of it in your life. If you think it's merely the ability to boast about self denial Jesus was after, then you've missed the boat ...