Are Presbyterians 5-point Calvinists?

[Cary.Melvin]

Are all Presbyterians 5-point Calvinists?

 

[CCWoody]

Are all Presbyterians 5-point Calvinists?

No, most are 5-Point Arminians, a kind of Protestant Catholic. As far as I know, the only place where you can be assured of finding Calvinist Presbyterians today is in the:

OPC - Orthodox Presbyterians - the men in Black.
PCA - Presbyterian Church in America
and to a lesser extent EPC - Evangelical Presbyterians.

For the most part Cumberlin (sp) Presbyterians pay only lip service to the creeds. And the PC(USA), though there are still Calvinists in her, have all but abondoned their heritage.

 

[ClementofRome]

No. Just as with any faith tradition, you will find those that vary from the classic doctrines of that tradition. I suspect it is the same with your tradition as well.

 

[ClementofRome]

No, most are 5-Point Arminians, a kind of Protestant Catholic. As far as I know, the only place where you can be assured of finding Calvinist Presbyterians today is in the:

OPC - Orthodox Presbyterians - the men in Black.
PCA - Presbyterian Church in America
and to a lesser extent EPC - Evangelical Presbyterians.

For the most part Cumberlin (sp) Presbyterians pay only lip service to the creeds. And the PC(USA), though there are still Calvinists in her, have all but abondoned their heritage.

In reflecting on your assessment above, and in pondering the question further.....NO, Presbyterianism cannot be equated with Calvinism at all. If, as you say the OPC and PCA are it...that represents a small fraction of what is called Presbyterianism. Now, we have left out a number of Dutch Reformed traditions that would find themselves comfortably within the domain of Calvinism....and they do not call themselves Presbyterians.

As a Whitefield Methodist, I suspect I am one of the few in my denomination.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

In reflecting on your assessment above, and in pondering the question further.....NO, Presbyterianism cannot be equated with Calvinism at all. If, as you say the OPC and PCA are it...that represents a small fraction of what is called Presbyterianism. Now, we have left out a number of Dutch Reformed traditions that would find themselves comfortably within the domain of Calvinism....and they do not call themselves Presbyterians.

As a Whitefield Methodist, I suspect I am one of the few in my denomination.

Reformed and Presbyterian churches are very close. Presbyterian is the name of those Churches that followed Calvin in matters including church Government in the English world and Reformed is the title they had on the European continent.

THe Dutch Reformed, here in the USA, like the Presbyterians (from the British Isles) have liberal, evangelical (non-Calvinistic), and Calvinistic segments.

The heritage is in the Reformed Creeds but many today have forgotten their heritage. I remember working with a fellow who attended a liberal PCUSA church. We talked often and he know almost nothing about the Scriptures. One day he told me that they wanted him to be an elder. I asked him if he would have to agree with all or part of the Westminster Confession. He had never even heard of the Westminster Confession. He said "What is that?"

There are still some very good people in the PCUSA, but only a small handful are Reformed.

In Christ,
Kenith

Ps There are many reformed/Presbyterian denominations that are not in the USA (thank God!!).

 

[reformedfan]

Reformed Presbyterians are 5 if not 7 point Calvinists as a denomination

 

[ClementofRome]

Can you give more info on Reformed Presbyterian?

 

[reformedfan]

hmmmm...lemme see if i can find a link....

watch this space

 

[reformedfan]

http://www.reformedpresbyterian.org/

 

[Cary.Melvin]

No. Just as with any faith tradition, you will find those that vary from the classic doctrines of that tradition. I suspect it is the same with your tradition as well.

Are the leadership in the Presbyterian Churches required to affim the 5-points of Calvinism or to any particular confession that would include Calvinism?

Also, are Presbyterians monergists?

Thanks,

 

[reformedfan]

RP leadership are required to affirm the Westminster standards & the RP testimony, & are monergists

 

[ClementofRome]

http://www.reformedpresbyterian.org/

Thanks for that link....it will serve me well.

 

[ClementofRome]

Are the leadership in the Presbyterian Churches required to affim the 5-points of Calvinism or to any particular confession that would include Calvinism?

Also, are Presbyterians monergists?

Thanks,

I am certain that the Westminster Confession of Faith is "calvinistic" and it is certainly "monergistic." Having said that, any Presbyterian who subscribes to the WCF would be both Calvinistic and Monergistic.

Would you say that your faith tradition is completely consistent with respect to doctrine and practice? I am trying to get a feel for what your motivations are in posting this thread...

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

I am certain that the Westminster Confession of Faith is "calvinistic" and it is certainly "monergistic." Having said that, any Presbyterian who subscribes to the WCF would be both Calvinistic and Monergistic.

Would you say that your faith tradition is completely consistent with respect to doctrine and practice? I am trying to get a feel for what your motivations are in posting this thread...

This thread was started by a Roman Catholic fellow.

All Presbyterians should be Calvinists. In the PCA you have to subscribe to the WCF to be an officer (deacon or elder). There is some allowance for minor exceptions (now and then), but a denial of Calvinism is hardly minor. All deacon's and elders should be Calvinists. All that I know are (I'm a deacon).

Members do not have to be Calvinists, but we certainly try to disciple them all in that direction. Non-Calvinists who attend either move to being Calvinists and join or they become dissatisfied and move on.

Later,
Kenith

 

[Cary.Melvin]

Would you say that your faith tradition is completely consistent with respect to doctrine and practice?

Not Sure.

I am trying to get a feel for what your motivations are in posting this thread...

I have a Charismatic Protestant friend who was telling me about one of her girlfriends going to a Presbyterian church. I asked if her friend was a Calvinist. My friend didn't know what a Calvinist was so I explained to her Calvins doctrines of grace (TULIP). She seemed to think some of (if not all of) them were unbiblical. I told her that would probably mean that she would be an Arminian (she had never heard of that term either).

But anyway, I just wanted to confirm that Presbyterians were in fact Calvinist. And that if one attending a Presbyterian church should expect to be taught Calvinist doctrine.

 

[ClementofRome]

Not Sure.



I have a Charismatic Protestant friend who was telling me about one of her girlfriends going to a Presbyterian church. I asked if her friend was a Calvinist. My friend didn't know what a Calvinist was so I explained to her Calvins doctrines of grace (TULIP). She seemed to think some of (if not all of) them were unbiblical. I told her that would probably mean that she would be an Arminian (she had never heard of that term either).

But anyway, I just wanted to confirm that Presbyterians were in fact Calvinist. And that if one attending a Presbyterian church should expect to be taught Calvinist doctrine.

Thanks C.M.
I appreciate your inquisitiveness concerning Presbyterians and Calvinism. I understand your motive and welcome you to the discussion. If your friend believes that the doctrines of grace are unbiblical, I would be interested in hearing/reading her reactions to the 5 points.

Blessings to you.
CofR

 

[JM]

What about the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church? Are they five pointers? I study with a minister from the ARP and he is very traditional in his teaching thus far.

 

[ClementofRome]

What about the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church? Are they five pointers? I study with a minister from the ARP and he is very traditional in his teaching thus far.

Erskine Theological Seminary (ARP) is not too far from here (in fact my UMC pastor got his MDiv there) and they appear to be staunchly Calvinist. I have a good friend on faculty and he is a rabid Calvinist!

 

[JM]

Thanks bro.

 

[Antman_05]

I don't know about where you guys are from but the Presbyterian Church in Austraila is 5 point Calivnest thats where i got most of my reformed teaching from.