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Afros, Locks, & Kosher Wigs: What Hair Styles Do You Feel Jesus/Early Hebrews had?

Gxg (G²)

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I had heard of the first man possibly being in Africa.
Can't rememeber what program it was.

Any idea how tall adam and ever were when YAHWEH created them?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7616451-2/#post59383949
Start Of Humanity On Earth And Adam

African DNA - Welcome to African DNA

Men pass their Y chromosome on to all of their sons from generation to generation. As man evolved since our "Genetic Adam", small changes have taken place which separate all males into 18 highly-defined branches, called Haplogroups.

Our Y/CS25 provides reliable markers for tight genealogical connections, plus guaranteed placement of your Y chromosome (Y/CS) on the 'tree' of mankind.
Because man originated in Africa, the genetic diversity in Africa is much greater than in Asia or Europe, which were first settled only 30,000 years ago.
Not certain as to how tall Adam/Eve were, although I have seen videos on creation science evangelism discussing how they may've been far taller...10ft taller. And indeed, the location of Eden itself was in Africa originally. Many scientists have noted that the first man would have to have been of African descent and darker complexion when seeing the ways man migrated out of Africa and lighter colors come from darker ones originally.
 
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Knee V

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With the exception of a few small minority groups, I don't know of anyone that actually thinks that Jesus was "white". And "black" is not the only alternative to "white". Abraham was a Chaldean. Isaac married a Chaldean. Jacob married a Chaldean. The Syrians and Iraqis are modern-day Chaldeans. They are not "black", nor are they "white".

When Jacob and his sons went down into Egypt, they likely looked something similar to modern-day Iraqis. Their descendants over the next several generations likely picked up a little bit of new blood in Egypt, but their genetic baseline would not have shifted all that much. After all, north Africa was not "black". You had to go a little farther south for that. Not even Ethiopia was "black" the way that Africans farther south and west would have been.

The Israelites looked like Middle-Easterners, from the days of Abraham until the days of Christ and beyond. They were neither "white" nor "black".
 
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Gxg (G²)

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With the exception of a few small minority groups, I don't know of anyone that actually thinks that Jesus was "white". And "black" is not the only alternative to "white". .
No one, to my knowledge, has said that Jesus had to have looked "black"...unless it can be directly quoted. What was noted was how many depictions in churches across America consistently portray Christ with European features and have media depicting the Hebrews looking the same. The consideration of many Hebrews being of dark complexion or features found in black culture is never considered in many places..and saying that is not the same thing as claiming the Hebrews themselves had to be "black." It is simply that it would not be impossible for them to look such.

As it concerns people/churches thinking s that Jesus was "white", the South in the U.S.A is full of churches that've advocated that directly. If necessary, I'll go back and compile a list of all the churches that've done so that I've come across. There are others with corrupt movements such as British Israelism that advocate the same thing when saying Caucasians are the original Hebrews ...and there are others on the opposite side of the fence doing the same thing, such as the Black Hebrew Israelites, who say that blacks are the only ones who are the original Jews. Both are mistaken on a number of fronts...

Abraham was a Chaldean. Isaac married a Chaldean. Jacob married a Chaldean. The Syrians and Iraqis are modern-day Chaldeans. They are not "black", nor are they "white".




When Jacob and his sons went down into Egypt, they likely looked something similar to modern-day Iraqis.
As it stands, there's already debate on the issue of how people evolve in their ethnic looks...as just because a people group looks one way today doesn't mean they always looked like that. There's no evidence at all to verify that the sons of Jacob in any way looked like modern-day Iraqis when the areas they came from had people known to have African-features. If they married people from areas near Iraq, that's different.

Throughout history, there've been many variations of Hebrew people in all colors/shapes and sizes, be it Chinese Jews or Indian Jews or Sephardic and many others. They came from people all over the world. Moses married a woman from Cush ( Numbers 12:1-3 ) and there were many others in the OT who came from countries all over where the complexion was of a dark nature
Song of Songs 1:5
Dark am I, yet lovely, daughters of Jerusalem, dark like the tents of Kedar, like the tent curtains of Solomon.

Do not stare at me because I am dark,
because I am darkened by the sun.
My mother’s sons were angry with me
and made me take care of the vineyards;
my own vineyard I had to neglect.
Song of Songs 1:4-6
And of course, when seeing the Jews who come from an Iranian background, one can easily see how the Jewish people had complexions back then as they do today. There was actually a book I had investigated at one point entitled Esther's Children: A Portrait of Iranian Jews (more shared here ) and what life was like for the Jewish people in Babylon (modern Iran) and what often happened with them when they were either involved in Crypto-Jewish lifestyle or intemarrying with them while still trying to keep their Jewish culture.....and it really made me think on how many of those within the scriptures may disagree with some of the practices that are done today when it comes to mixed families.

Their descendants over the next several generations likely picked up a little bit of new blood in Egypt, but their genetic baseline would not have shifted all that much. After all, north Africa was not "black". You had to go a little farther south for that. Not even Ethiopia was "black" the way that Africans farther south and west would have been.

The Israelites looked like Middle-Easterners, from the days of Abraham until the days of Christ and beyond. They were neither "white" nor "black
That's not historical, as Northern Africa is full of others who are black and have been noted for being dark. Even in Egypt this has been the case....often an issue when people outside of the culture assume All Egyptians are light-skinned and end up shocked seeing the numerous cases of Egyptians that are dark, just as there were Dark skinned Pharoahs depicted throughout history...many in fact. Obviously, there are many Egyptian Jews who have lighter complexion....and many are not aware of that (more shared here). But the ones that are darker often get overlooked.

Had that confirmed once before when talking to light-skinned Coptic Christians at a Coptic Orthodox church I visited and they alerted the visitors how often people assumed all Egyptians looked like them, one of them noting how one of the churches he was with shocked others when they went in/saw many looking black....and it was assumed that they weren't Egyptian.

There are many not understanding of some of the racial issues within Egypt, as it concerns those of darker complexion and their connection with black culture...and others have often noted how the Egyptians were initially black when considering the Nubians....powerful and wealthy kings/Pharoahs who controlled large territories along the Nile and whose land was known as the Kingdom of Kush.---though there has been much historical debate on that. For exampls, places to investigate can be found under the names of Ancient Africa's Black Kingdoms or Black Pharaohs - National Geographic Magazine. Additionally, One can either go here or One can go here for example of where connections between Egypt and blacks have often come up​

For the many Hebrews who intermingled/mixed in with the Egyptians (especially during the Exodus account and prior to that, considering Hagar and Abraham in their relationship and the areas Abraham came from..and Joseph marrying an Egyptian in Genesis 39-45 plus SOLOMON marrying a Daughther of Egypt), having dark complexions would not have been odd.

tumblr_m8k86lBbXV1rd1aldo1_500.jpg

A81.jpg


The same goes for Ethopian, which is full of a diversity of color and yet has a overwhelming population of dark-skinned people. One sees that often when working with Ethopians and seeing them make note of it, especially Ethopian Jews.

Ethiopian-Jews.jpg

ethiopian%20jews138.jpg

Ethiopian%20Priests1.jpg


There is no scientific basis saying that all the Israelites, from the days of Noah to the days of Christ, looked like Middle-Easterners only.....especially in light of the basic reality of how the Hebrews spread all over the world/were noted to be in differing places throughout scripture and took on those characteristics. ..and seeing where the scriptures originated at: Africa. Even if the Hebrews did look like Middle-Easterners, that'd not exclude having dark complexion since many Middle Easterners were deemed to have those features throughout history..:)


The Jewish people have always been diverse/coming from so many backgrounds. The upper room does come to mind, in regards to what happened with how many Jews of differing ethnicities were all present when the Holy Spirit came down in power:
Acts 2:4
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.


5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”


You had God-fearing Jews from Egypt, Arabic Jews, Libyan Jews, Parthian Jews and so many others all present in one place. How they all seemed vastly different from one another is truly amazing...although it's hard to truly understand the words present without a visualization of what each group may've looked like. As offered before, one of the best places to go for learning/seeing that reality is .Be'chol Lashon | Advocating for the Growth and Diversity of the Jewish People :)
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Orthodox Icons - Greek, Russian & Byzantine » The Lord Jesus Christ - OrthodoxIconsOnline.com

These icons demonstrate that the church has never seen Christ (and by extension, the Hebrews in general) as either "white" or "black".
Plenty of other icons besides those, especially if dealing with the basics within Ethopian Orthodoxy and other parts of Oriential Orthodoxy. There were icons throughout history showing Christ and the Hebrews as European, Middle Eastern and African..


ethiopian_christ.jpg

f-nativity-13.jpg

2e5th8j.jpg



Obvious is the case that there are battles between Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriential Orthodoxy when it comes to depictions/heritage claims (more discussed here)---but that's another issue. There's also the Black Madonna of Częstochowa ..and other Church fathers shown with darker features:​



Black-Madonna-and-Son-34254207717_xlarge.jpeg

Black%20Madonna%20Mother%20of%20Godhr.jpg


Florenski-Black-Madonna-of-Czestochowska-icon.jpg

St_MosesTheEthiopian.jpg

BlackMadonna_8.jpg

72495.jpeg
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus But can one atain salvation thru 'em

Easy G (G²);61152308 said:
IMHO, what Paul was talking on didn't seem seperate from what the Torah already noted when it came to celebrating long hair (as with the Nazarites)....and in I Corinthians 11, he was speaking to Gentiles predominately.

Some think the general idea is that we are not to look in a manner that draws attention to ourselves or is unbecoming in the assembly of saints---and they say a covering on the head would maintain a level of ensuring nobody is trying to draw glances to themselves. For most cultures, men keep their hair shorter than woman and that’s the majority norm in America too. And being for Anthropology myself, the ways in which differing cultures interact have always been fascinating....
__________________
Ever look at the similarity of Isaiah 3:12 and Revelation 9:7,8 :) :angel:

Isaiah 3:12 My people! children are their tyrants and women rule over them,--
My people! they who should lead thee forward, are causing thee to stray, thy pathways have they destroyed

Revelation 9:7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces [were] like the faces of men.
8 They had hair like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' [teeth.]

And the sign said "Long-haired freaky people need not apply"
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said "You look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do"


Five Man Electric Band - Signs with Lyrics - YouTube
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Ever look at the similarity of Isaiah 3:12 and Revelation 9:7,8 :) :angel:

Isaiah 3:12 My people! children are their tyrants and women rule over them,--
My people! they who should lead thee forward, are causing thee to stray, thy pathways have they destroyed

Revelation 9:7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces [were] like the faces of men.
8 They had hair like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' [teeth.]

And the sign said "Long-haired freaky people need not apply"
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said "You look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do"


Five Man Electric Band - Signs with Lyrics - YouTube

Not really seeing the relevance as it concerns hair. Did it say what kind of hair it was that was being exalted?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Easy G (G²);61153217 said:
Not really seeing the relevance as it concerns hair. Did it say what kind of hair it was that was being exalted?
:confused:
Where in my post did you see anything about hair being exalted? :D
 
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weathered

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Easy G (G²);61152225 said:
Granted, there were men in the scriptures who happened to be bald:


Leviticus 13:40
“A man who has lost his hair and is bald is clean.
Leviticus 13:39-41 / Leviticus 13

2 Kings 2:23
[ Elisha Is Jeered ] From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.
2 Kings 2:22-24 (
Elisha took his baldness serious....:cool:

Sounds that way. :)
 
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weathered

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Easy G (G²);61152284 said:
There was another thread elsewhere on that issue you may be interested in (seen here and here), as it concerns the many ways that Christ has consistently been presented within a Eurocentric perspective......for many churches seem to literally get up/in arms if ever seeing a presentation of Christ as someone of color, especially considering the ways Christ is depicted within the culture of the West Indies.

blackjesus.jpg


4856933925_1491730fb2_z.jpg


But much of history was written by the victors and giving their image (i.e. a Euro-Centric viewpoint that makes all other cultures inferior to it, with Africa being deemed as backward rather than acknowledging the many contributions it actually gave). If you've ever heard of Thomas Oden, he has an excellent book on the matter which really went in-depth on the matter, entitled How Africa Shaped the Christian Mind: Rediscovering the African Seedbed of Western Christianity



One can find out more about his work here. Concerning his books, as another reviewer said best, it is a blessing seeing the work of Oden in discussing the ways Africa shaped the faith of believers rather than going with the standard Western view that Africa came "late" on the scene and the true definition of Christianity was a Euro-centric one, often based in imperialism....and even though people may wonder on whether it was Fate or Chance that Africa was treated the way it was, I'm glad for folks like Oden sharing on how the record needs to be set straight with challenging the dominant views rather than assuming that just because a story's presented one way means that it must be the correct one. To me, it's always odd to see others assuming it's generally those who are black racists who'd advocate such..for the very fact that he'd mention all that he did about Christianity from an African perspective as a Caucasian himself is already striking enough since many of the things he noted were facts/concepts that (as I've often heard it claimed) one would expect to hear from those within black culture with Afro-Centric views.

I'm thankful for others being different when coming from camps that're known to have specific viewpoints---and it is indeed refereshing to see others confirm the reality that following Yeshua from an African perspective is not something counter to the scriptures if simply understanding history alone. Christianity (as well as Judaism, from which Christianity evolved from) has always had ties to Africa...and by extension, the same goes for what occurs in the West Indies/Islands when studying the history of those transported from Africa to that location

With Oden, I'm a big fan of his works in patristics and I appreciate what he noted about possessing a far more orthodox theology based on ancient ecumenical consensus. There is a great need for those in the body involved in paleo-orthodoxy...for what we don't remember about the past can often be the cause of things we wish we'd not remember/see in the present. Eric Landstrom said it best in one of his articles, as seen here.

There is a tribe of black Jews living in Africa who claim they are a lost tribe. I think they may share genetic markers that only Jews have in their DNA. Something i saw on TV once. I think its racism on both sides that fuels the negative white/black Jesus debate. But there are good reasons to debate it though, so its hard to say. Jesus wasn't a respector of persons and he is the lord so whatever color he was doesn't matter to me.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by Easy G (G²) Granted, there were men in the scriptures who happened to be bald:
Leviticus 13:40
“A man who has lost his hair and is bald is clean.
Leviticus 13:39-41 / Leviticus 13

Elisha took his baldness serious....:cool:
Sounds that way. :)
Being both bald and fat is a beautiful thing

images
 
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weathered

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Being both bald and fat is a beautiful thing

images

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, only thing that matters is what God thinks of us. We know God doesn't judge by outward appearances. I would rather be the ungliest man on earth and have a beautiful heart. Supposedly Jesus was such a man, not attractive physically but he had the biggest heart.
 
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Albion

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Well, the pics of Hebrews from the Assyrian captivity are the better part of a millennium out of time, so they mean nothing. And Jesus did not have dreadlocks since that dates from Africa and a much later period of time. If you believe that he was dirt poor, he may have had long hair of the sort we usually think of, but if he was better off--which there is evidence in scripture that he was--he may well have cut and combed his hair in the fashion of the day which was imitative of Caesar (short, combed forward).
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, only thing that matters is what God thinks of us. We know God doesn't judge by outward appearances.

I would rather be the ungliest man on earth and have a beautiful heart. Supposedly Jesus was such a man, not attractive physically but he had the biggest heart.
That is what I got out of Isaiah 53 I brought up in an earlier post :)

Genesis 41:19 "Then behold!
seven other cows came up after them, poor and very ugly and gaunt, such ugliness as I have never seen in all the land of Egypt.
20 "And the gaunt and ugly cows ate up the first seven, the fat cows.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7679329-3/#post61152077

obama-ugly-babies2.jpg
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Well, the pics of Hebrews from the Assyrian captivity are the better part of a millennium out of time, so they mean nothing. And Jesus did not have dreadlocks since that dates from Africa and a much later period of time. .
Dreadlocks were present in Africa LONG before Christ ever appeared on the scene, centuries ahead to be exact in numerous tribes and Egypt itself. That's basic to historical review, unless showing otherwise. Moreover, as many Jewish people had locked style hair during those periods, it's not beyond consideration. Apart from that, there's the simple reality of what historians describe the hair styles of what they saw during those eras.
If you believe that he was dirt poor, he may have had long hair of the sort we usually think of, but if he was better off--which there is evidence in scripture that he was--he may well have cut and combed his hair in the fashion of the day which was imitative of Caesar (short, combed forward
Many Jewish people, when having long hair, took care of it. Those who were of the middle-class state sometimes took vows such as the Nazarite vow for a time and then cut their hair/ let it regrow...but not all Jews were for the short/combed forward style that Caesar had. Especially Jews already feeling they did not need to imitate Caesar or Rome...
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Gxg (G²)

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Being both bald and fat is a beautiful thing

images

Although being Obese is never a good thing, being bald can be rather cool...and nothing wrong with being heavy-set :)
 
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