Active reprobation

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Do all Calvinists believe in active reprobation--or double predestination--i.e. that God actively predestines the reprobates to eternal damnation? Or do some believe that God passively reprobates by simply "passing over" the reprobates?

Thanks!!

Dominus vobiscum,
Rob

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

No. Many believe the latter. In fact, I wasn't introduced to active reprobation until long after I became familiar with Calvinism, and when I did learn about it, I was told that only "hyper-Calvinists" believe in it.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Thanks! I have heard this called "hyper-Calvinism" also, but I wasn't sure if most Calvinists today believed in it.

Rob

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

I don't have the actual data on this, but I'd say that most Calvinists today do not believe in it.

 

[AndOne]

Actually most Calvinists that I know do believe in double-predestination. Also if you read Calvin's commentary on Genesis you will clearly see that he taught it too. Also - and more importantly - it is what the Bible teaches.

The term "hyper-Calvinist" is a relative term that seems to be what one Calvinist calls another whenever they have a sotorieological disagreement. I've seen this term thrown around from so many different angles that you really can't put a solid definition to it.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

I agree with you, Behe's Boy, but I was under the impression that most Calvinists today do not believe it.

I would agree that it is a vague term, but do you think there is such a thing as a hyper-Calvinist? And, if so, what would that be?

 

[AndOne]

Actually - I think most do believe in it - certainly most of the ones you see around here do. I certainly do.

As to the term hyper-calvinist - ask the question what one is - and you'll get 50 different answers. I just see it as a slang term for "he's a calvinist that disagrees with me." Monergism.com has a link to hyper-calvinism and even there you'll find a vast amount of different deffinitions.

 

[Imblessed]

Personally? I think I believe in double-predestination. I don't think God is "passive" about anything he does--and even "passing over" the reprobate is an active move to my way of thinking.

I'm gonna do a poll. See how many people around here actually believe in double-predestination.

About Hyper-calvinism and different definitions. About the only definition of hyper-calvinism I fully agree on is the theory that we should NOT evangelize. Any Calvinist who says we shouldn't go out and preach the Gospel is WRONG, and has become a fatalist, in my opinion. There are extremists in every group and denomination, and Calvinism is no different.

 

[Monergism]

Double-predestination.

And never call a Calvinist a hyper-Calvinist. Hyper-Calvinism does not mean that a certain Calvinist or Calvinists are overly zealous of their beliefs.

 

[cygnusx1]

Double-predestination.

And never call a Calvinist a hyper-Calvinist. Hyper-Calvinism does not mean that a certain Calvinist or Calvinists are overly zealous of their beliefs.

here's a question ....... what is a HYPO Calvinist ........... I would bet it ain't good

 

[Monergism]

here's a question ....... what is a HYPO Calvinist ........... I would bet it ain't good

lol A hypo-Calvinist would believe in, um, I don't know.

 

[cygnusx1]

lol A hypo-Calvinist would believe in, um, I don't know.

perhaps it's a 'TYPO' a calvinist who can't spell ........ ME!

 

[JJB]

*** rabbit trail:

The term Hyper Calvinism always brings to mind an image of superman with his red cape fluttering in the wind and his hands on his hips.

I don't know why that is other than the term "hyper" and equating it to "super"

back on track***

 

[CCWoody]

The odd thing is that there are those Calvinists who claim to be single-Predestinationists. They argue that God simply "passed over" certain people, thereby reprobating them to be left in their fate. They also point out that the Bible only speaks of Predestination as a sense of comfort to the saints.

And there are those who claim a double-Predestination. God actively reprobates and God actively elects. If we say that God's election is a choice to save and we say that God's reprobation is a choice not to save or simply "pass over," it does seem pretty clear to me that even a passive rejection is still an act, a choice.

Is it possible, therefore, for there to really be such a thing as a passive reprobation? Is God really passive? Personally, I think the argument really over nothing more than terminology.

 

[Imblessed]

The odd thing is that there are those Calvinists who claim to be single-Predestinationists. They argue that God simply "passed over" certain people, thereby reprobating them to be left in their fate. They also point out that the Bible only speaks of Predestination as a sense of comfort to the saints.

And there are those who claim a double-Predestination. God actively reprobates and God actively elects. If we say that God's election is a choice to save and we say that God's reprobation is a choice not to save or simply "pass over," it does seem pretty clear to me that even a passive rejection is still an act, a choice.

Is it possible, therefore, for there to really be such a thing as a passive reprobation? Is God really passive? Personally, I think the argument really over nothing more than terminology.

check out the poll 10-0 in favor of double predestination! the single predestionation vote was from a non-calvinist! LOL

this is exactly why my vote was double: " we say that God's reprobation is a choice not to save or simply "pass over," it does seem pretty clear to me that even a passive rejection is still an act, a choice."

symantics, really...


love that picture! LOL

 

[Jon_]

Do all Calvinists believe in active reprobation--or double predestination--i.e. that God actively predestines the reprobates to eternal damnation? Or do some believe that God passively reprobates by simply "passing over" the reprobates?

Thanks!!

Dominus vobiscum,
Rob

All consistent Calvinists do, yes. I used to be inconsistent on this and affirmed an active election and a passive reprobation. On closer inspection, I realized that this is simply irrational, though.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Jon_]

Thanks! I have heard this called "hyper-Calvinism" also, but I wasn't sure if most Calvinists today believed in it.

Rob

This is not hyper-Calvinism, actually. Those who believe in a passive reprobation often level this charge to smear the view of those who affirm it is active. The same is true of those who teach the "sincere offer" of the Gospel. The irrationality of the charge is simply a preview of the irrationality inherent in their arguments.

Hyper-Calvinism is quite simply the view that the Gospel should only be preached to the elect. This amounts to a denial of the Great Commission and is flat out wrong.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[cygnusx1]

This is not hyper-Calvinism, actually. Those who believe in a passive reprobation often level this charge to smear the view of those who affirm it is active. The same is true of those who teach the "sincere offer" of the Gospel. The irrationality of the charge is simply a preview of the irrationality inherent in their arguments.

Hyper-Calvinism is quite simply the view that the Gospel should only be preached to the elect. This amounts to a denial of the Great Commission and is flat out wrong.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

Hi Jon , concerning the Sincere Gospel offer and the above charge of irrationality it might be worth holding fire and examining our human limits , our minds are infinately small compaired to God's , not to mention the comparison between desires!

"Thy way is, in the sea, and Thy path in the great waters, and Thy footsteps are not known." (Psalm 77:19)

"O LORD, how great are Thy works! and Thy thoughts are very deep." (Psalm 92:5)

"Clouds and darkness are round about Him ..." (Psalm 97:2)

"Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it." (Psalm 139:6)

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! For who has known the mind of the Lord? or who has been His counselor? Or who has first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed to him again? For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to Whom be glory forever. Amen." (Romans 11:33-36)

Certain things are not revealed to us at all, while other things were revealed only after Christ came. Consider those doctrines of Scripture which are referred to as "mysteries": the casting away of the Jews and the engrafting of the Gentiles (Romans 11:25); justification by faith (Romans 16:25-26); the inauguration of the New Covenant (1 Corinthians 2:7-8); the glorification of the saints at the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:51+); God's eternal predestined plan (Ephesians 1:8-12; 3:8-11); our union with Christ (Ephesians 5:32); Christ indwelling believers (Colossians 1:26-28); God Himself (Colossians 2:2); the incarnation and dual nature of Christ (1 Timothy 3:16; cf. v. 9). These are all referred to using the Greek word musterion, which comes from the root muo - literally, "to shut the mouth."

It is not that these doctrines should be avoided and not studied, far from it. But these examples serve to demonstrate that "theology" should be practiced with caution. We must be careful to keep our speculative imaginations within the confines of the Word of God. Let us excel in things "revealed" and be silent when encountering the "secret things" that belong to God. One may certainly make valid inferences from Scripture; but when we are speaking in the realm of speculation, we should both recognize this fact and represent it plainly to others. This is a very important point because if we would receive it, we must also accept the existence of legitimate theological antinomies.

http://home.flash.net/~thinkman/articles/mystery.htm

 

[tony1976]

You say that you think most you know Calvinists accept this. I don't know where you live or what circles you move in, but it is certainly NOT the case here in the United Kingdom. The so called 'Renaissance of Calvinism' which has taken place since WWII - led by Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones and the Banner of Truth Trust - to put it kindly, is not in line with historic Calvinism as found in the Reformers (especially Calvin) and the Canons of Dort. To be blunt it is little more than semi / crypto Arminianism.

However you define Hyper-Calvisim (and I think there is such a thing and it can be defined), holding to the doctrine of double predestination doesn't make you a Hyper-Calvinist, else Calvin himself would be Hyper-Calvinist, which would involve somewhat of a contradiction, don't you think?

You can see Calvin's view on double predestination - God activily reprobating the non-elect (what Calvin referred to, in Latin, as the 'decretum horribilis' - you should translate the later word as being equal to the English 'horrible', it can mean 'amazing', 'astonishing', 'fearful' - that is, something that should cause us to bow in humility before the Lord) in a book entitled 'Calvin's Calvinism' which is really two of his treatises - 'The Eternal Predestination of God' and 'The Secret Providence of God' - combined in one book. I have a CD with it on if anyone is interested.

Tony

 

[tony1976]

That first sentence should have read, 'You say that you think most Calvinists you know accept this.'