Abraham's Bosom

[Shumby]

Can someone explain to me why virtually every preacher I've heard teach/preach says that Abraham's Bosom is/was referred to as PARADISE. I've never found a scripture to substantiate it. Do any of you know one? It is my understanding from scripture that Paradise is the third heaven where God is. What say ye!!

 

[Idea]

Here is a cut-n-paste:

PARADISE. See also Heaven
That part of the spirit world in which the righteous spirits who have departed from this life await the resurrection of the body. It is a condition of happiness and peace.
Paradise is also used in the scriptures to mean the world of spirits (Luke 23:43), the celestial kingdom (2 Cor. 12:4), and the glorified millennial condition of the earth (A of F 1:10).
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God, Rev. 2:7. The paradise of God must deliver up the spirits of the righteous, 2 Ne. 9:13. The spirits of the righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, Alma 40:11–12. All the disciples of Jesus had gone to the paradise of God, save it were three, 4 Ne. 1:14. I soon go to rest in the paradise of God, Moro. 10:34. Christ ministered to the righteous spirits in paradise, D&C 138.

Paradise, Paradisiacal (see also Earth, Renewal of; Heaven; Spirits, Disembodied; Eden; BD Abraham's Bosom; Paradise)
Luke 23:43 To day shalt thou be with me in p.
2 Cor. 12:4 he was caught up into p.
Rev. 2:7 tree of life, which is in the midst of the p.
2 Ne. 9:13 p. of God must deliver up the spirits
Alma 40:12 state of happiness, which is called p.
4 Ne. 1:14 all gone to the p. of God, save it were three
Moro. 10:34 I soon go to rest in the p. of God
D&C 77:2 figurative expressions ... in describing heaven, the p. of God
D&C 138:16 awaiting the advent of the Son of God into the spirit world
D&C 138:36 Redeemer spent his time ... in the world of spirits, instructing
A of F 10 earth will be renewed and receive its p. glory
See also Job 3:17; Isa. 57:2; Dan. 12:13; Luke 16:19–31; Rev. 6:11; 14:13; D&C 59:2; 124:86.

Abraham's Bosom. A term used to denote the place of the righteous dead, Luke 16:22–23. It connotes the harmony that exists among the righteous in paradise, as they await the resurrection.

 

[Shumby]

SORRY, BUT THE PASSAGES YOU REFERRED TO ARE NOT IN THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE. Revelation 2:7 says, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." This is the only conclusive passage I could find that lets us know Paradise is in Heaven, where God is.

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

Can someone explain to me why virtually every preacher I've heard teach/preach says that Abraham's Bosom is/was referred to as PARADISE. I've never found a scripture to substantiate it. Do any of you know one? It is my understanding from scripture that Paradise is the third heaven where God is. What say ye!!

Many preachers just preach what they were taught by man.

Abraham's bosom is the Abrahamic Covenant, Lazarus represents the house of Israel . . . this is a "Kingdom Parable"

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
(the house of Judah which enjoyed all God's blessings and the full ministry of the temple in Jerusalem)
And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
(Ephraim / Israel, fallen into idolatry)
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came
and licked his sores.(and taken captive by the gentiles who treated them better than Judah did)
And it came to pass, that the beggar died
(the dispersion of the northern 10 tribes after being taken away by the Assyrians),
and was carried by the angels ("on eagles wings" - Ex19:4, Rev.12:4)
into Abraham's bosom: (becoming a "great nation" - USA, and a "company of nations" - the British Commonwealth
- Gen.18:18, 2 Sam. 7:10)
the rich man also died, (destruction of the Jewish nation, AD70)
and was buried; (perpetually broken as a shattered pot - Jer. 19:11)
And in hell (hades - national death) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, (Jewish persecutions)
and seeth Abraham afar off, (the fulfilment of the Abrahamic Covenant)
and Lazarus in his bosom (enjoying the blessings)
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus,
that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
But Abraham said, Son, (Judah was a descendant of Abraham)
remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, (having "obtained mercy" - Hosea 1:7)
and likewise Lazarus evil things: (having "not obtained mercy" - Hosea 1:6) but now he is comforted,
(Hosea 2:23) and thou art tormented.
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed:
(the new Covenant which the Jews generally did not accept)
so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
For I have five brethren; (Judah had 5 brethren by Leah - Gen.35:23)
that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded,
though one rose from the dead. (Jesus and the apostles showed that many Jews didn't even hear the
scriptures they claimed to believe in, so they reject their fulfilment)

 

[Shumby]

ALLTALK, that's certainly a beautiful metaphor, but I think Jesus meant for us to understand his words. For example, in the parable of the sower sowing the word, in Mark 4:3, 14. He explains what he meant. I don't think Luke 16 needs any explanation. It's MEN who have confused the issue by referring to Abraham's Bosom as PARADISE, when it is NOT....at least IMHO. Isn't it true that Paradise is not mentioned in the O.T., and that in the N.T. it is in reference to where God's throne is?

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

ALLTALK, that's certainly a beautiful metaphor, but I think Jesus meant for us to understand his words. For example, in the parable of the sower sowing the word, in Mark 4:3, 14. He explains what he meant. I don't think Luke 16 needs any explanation. It's MEN who have confused the issue by referring to Abraham's Bosom as PARADISE, when it is NOT....at least IMHO. Isn't it true that Paradise is not mentioned in the O.T., and that in the N.T. it is in reference to where God's throne is?

Shumby - Jesus uses specific words, do you think it is co-incidence that first Lazarus is taken, and the rich man has 5 sons, and Moses and the prophets etc?

Jesus and His Father expects us to love and know his word, meditate upon it and search it out.

When people can't be bothered they end up making the parables say what they have already decided to believe.

Many people want to think they are the "good ground" in the parable of the sower, but is their fruit according to God's word, or tares that look like it outwardly but have the opposite result (to borrow from another parable)?

 

[Shumby]

WHAT DOES IT MATTER THAT “first Lazarus is taken, and the rich man has 5 sons, and Moses and the prophets etc?” Which SPECIFIC WORDS are you referring to that Jesus used?



WHAT IS YOUR MEANING HERE? “When people can't be bothered they end up making the parables say what they have already decided to believe.

” Who’s made up which parables. Jesus said that he only spoke what he heard His Father speak, so I don’t know what you think you are trying to prove, or disprove…

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

WHAT DOES IT MATTER THAT “first Lazarus is taken, and the rich man has 5 sons, and Moses and the prophets etc?” Which SPECIFIC WORDS are you referring to that Jesus used?

WHAT IS YOUR MEANING HERE? “When people can't be bothered they end up making the parables say what they have already decided to believe.

” Who’s made up which parables. Jesus said that he only spoke what he heard His Father speak, so I don’t know what you think you are trying to prove, or disprove…

Jesus didn't make it up as he went along, he was specific . . look at the details given in many passages such as the building of God's house, details of worship etc, it's all significant.

To fully appreciate what Jesus means we have to know why he said what he did.

It is a fact that many people come to the bible and just try to fit it in with what they already want to believe.

Even less subtle people can do it and The Lord picks them up on it, for example:-

"Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" (John 21:22-23)

 

[Gareth]

Something else that tends to be forgotton. Nowhere in the story does it say that the unnamed Rich Man was bad or corrupt nor does it say that Lazarus was good. So it should not be inferred that being wealthy is bad and being poor is good. Both have their stresses and issues.

 

[Tavita]

WHAT DOES IT MATTER THAT “first Lazarus is taken, and the rich man has 5 sons, and Moses and the prophets etc?” Which SPECIFIC WORDS are you referring to that Jesus used?



WHAT IS YOUR MEANING HERE? “When people can't be bothered they end up making the parables say what they have already decided to believe.

” Who’s made up which parables. Jesus said that he only spoke what he heard His Father speak, so I don’t know what you think you are trying to prove, or disprove…

As AllTalkNoAction tried to point out, this 'parable' is about the 'kingdom' being taken from the Jews and given to the Gentiles. It has nothing to do with paradise, heaven, or hell.

When looking at the gospel accounts, or any scripture for that matter, you need to look at 'who' Jesus was speaking to. He wasn't telling this parable to the general population, the sinners, He was speaking to the Pharisee's, and they knew exactly what He meant.

Parables are not meant to be easily understood. See what Jesus said here..

(Mat 13:10 ESV) Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?"

(Mat 13:11 ESV) And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

(Mat 13:12 ESV) For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.

(Mat 13:13 ESV) This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

(Mat 13:14 ESV) Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive.

(Mat 13:15 ESV) For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.'

(Mat 13:16 ESV) But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.

(Mat 13:17 ESV) For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.


Jesus did not always speak clearly about the Kingdom. So, you really don't have to worry why people speak about this parable as if it's about 'paradise', because clearly (lol!) it's not. Here's a great article explaining the symbolism in this parable...

http://www.godfire.net/eby/abrahams.html

 

[amadeus2]

Simply start with the scriptures which refer to the "tree of life" (in addition to Genesis and Revelation)and ask God to take you on from there:

"She [antecedent= "wisdom in verse 13] is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her." Prov 3:18

"The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise." Prov 11:30

"Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life." Prov 13:12

"A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit." Prov 15:4

 

[Alethes]

Can someone explain to me why virtually every preacher I've heard teach/preach says that Abraham's Bosom is/was referred to as PARADISE. I've never found a scripture to substantiate it. Do any of you know one? It is my understanding from scripture that Paradise is the third heaven where God is. What say ye!!

In to Abraham's bosom--as if seen reclining next to him at the heavenly feast.

"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven."

The New heaven and the New earth is the whole earth being then a "Paradise."

The parable of Luke 16:19-31 concerning Abraham and Lazarus is a figure of speech, not a literal portrayal of factual evens. The Pharisees believed in immediate rewards and punishment after death. Jesus did not believe this but uses the parable to judge the Pharisees of their own erroneous belief

By wording the parable they way he did, Christ was "becoming a Pharisees to win the Pharisees" (cp. 1 Cor. 9:19-22). He was speaking their language to make the point that even if a person returned from the dead, the hard of heart would still not believe. This was shown to be the case when Lazarus and Christ rose from the dead.

 

[Evergreen48]

In to Abraham's bosom--as if seen reclining next to him at the heavenly feast.

"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven."

The New heaven and the New earth is the whole earth being then a "Paradise."

The parable of Luke 16:19-31 concerning Abraham and Lazarus is a figure of speech, not a literal portrayal of factual evens. The Pharisees believed in immediate rewards and punishment after death. Jesus did not believe this but uses the parable to judge the Pharisees of their own erroneous belief

By wording the parable they way he did, Christ was "becoming a Pharisees to win the Pharisees" (cp. 1 Cor. 9:19-22). He was speaking their language to make the point that even if a person returned from the dead, the hard of heart would still not believe. This was shown to be the case when Lazarus and Christ rose from the dead.

That the righteous went to Abraham's bosom after death was Jewish folklore. The concept of Hades which is displayed in the story of the rich man and Lazarus is drawn from Greek mythology. Jesus said He was the way, the TRUTH and the life. Jesus never lied, and neither did He draw from such untruths as these to make His 'points'.

IMO, at least one of the parables in Luke 15 and 16 just doesn't belong there. Guess which one I picked.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Many preachers just preach what they were taught by man.

Abraham's bosom is the Abrahamic Covenant, Lazarus represents the house of Israel . . . this is a "Kingdom Parable"


And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed:
(the new Covenant which the Jews generally did not accept)
so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
)

I tend to agree. If you look at the words rendered in the Greek, the word for "ferrying" is used and look at Hebrew 11:29 where it shows the "egyptians drowned".
I would say the corrupt muderous Priesthood came to symbolize the "egyptians" in the Ot. Thoughts?

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/lazarus.htm

Luke 16:26 And on all of these, between Us [NC Faith/Life] and Ye [OC Law/Death] a great chasm/casma <5490> hath been established, so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye not be able to, no yet thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276>.
[# 1276 used as ferrying Matt 9:1, 14:34, Mark 5:21, 6:53, Acts 21:2]

Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

 

[Evergreen48]

I tend to agree. If you look at the words rendered in the Greek, the word for "ferrying" is used and look at Hebrew 11:29 where it shows the "egyptians drowned".
I would say the corrupt muderous Priesthood came to symbolize the "egyptians" in the Ot. Thoughts?

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/lazarus.htm

Luke 16:26 And on all of these, between Us [NC Faith/Life] and Ye [OC Law/Death] a great chasm/casma <5490> hath been established, so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye not be able to, no yet thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276>.
[# 1276 used as ferrying Matt 9:1, 14:34, Mark 5:21, 6:53, Acts 21:2]

I can't find any words in Luke 16:26 related to 'ferrying' as ferrying would relate to crossing water. And too, the Israelites crossed over on foot on dry land. Could you please show the parallel which would show how the the 'murderous Priesthood' of the Jews could be symbolic of the Egyptians who drowned of the OT?

Thanks.

 

[Alethes]

That the righteous went to Abraham's bosom after death was Jewish folklore. The concept of Hades which is displayed in the story of the rich man and Lazarus is drawn from Greek mythology. Jesus said He was the way, the TRUTH and the life. Jesus never lied, and neither did He draw from such untruths as these to make His 'points'.

IMO, at least one of the parables in Luke 15 and 16 just doesn't belong there. Guess which one I picked.

What you think and what the Word of God teaches are entirely two different things. What scripture verses do you base your opinion on?

 

[Evergreen48]

What you think and what the Word of God teaches are entirely two different things. What scripture verses do you base your opinion on?

Alethes, there are no 'scripture verses', as you call them, that teach any such thing as the hades depicted in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. All of that comes from Greek mythology. And certainly none that teach that anyone goes to Abraham's bosom when they die. That is exactly why I am of the opinion that Jesus did not tell this story, and that it does not belong in what we call the New Testament. Jesus was the way, the TRUTH and the life, and He did not rely on the'old wives tales ' of the Jews, nor Greek mythology to teach the people.

But if you want to argue that what we read in the New Testament is the word of God, go give YAQUBOS a hand over in the following threads. He needs all the help he can get.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=46161201#post46161201 and http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=46160548#post46160548