A path toward doing’s God’s will – discussion and references

[bostonlass]

Shannon,

Do you remember the Little Flower? When she was confronted with wanting to defend herself against a particular difficult to get along with sister, she had to run out the room like a coward in order to not respond to her. She considered that a victory.

Silence is not only something to learn to do wen we are wrong and in need of correcting but when we are right too! I’m learning how to be silent. I had to hear yesterday from a family member about my autistic son, how “I don’t watch him properly.” You know how hard it is to ignore ignorant people who like to judge you who have no clue?

Talk about feeling you flesh burn right off.

It's very hard not to say anything in those situations. It's hard being on both sides actually. There is a girl in my office who tells me about her kids and sometimes the stories just scream to me that I need to tell her this is wrong or that is wrong.......I just say nothing and smile and change the subject. I don't know if I'm right in doing that in some cases...like when she tells me she leaves her 6 year old in the house alone while she goes shopping with her other child......but I don't want to be judgemental since I have my own junk to worry about.

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

Thanks Aaron- I'm learning- slowly but it's starting to get through. It's so hard to do though- to control your passions. That is why humility is the mother of all virtues. We can accept things only if we are humble enough.

I had a crazy thought today, why God gives suffering to us as a gift. Because he wants us to despise this world, if this world was filled with joy and comforts all the time, we would never desire heaven. He allows us to suffer so we will desire something better, something lasting, so we will not be conformed to the world but to His will.

Amen

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

I recently had this issue come up where a very trusted friend sort of "talked to me" about a particular behaviour (yelling at my children). I reacted so badly, I became sullen and quiet. I had to call the next day and apologize- for it was as though the words of my friend began this battle between my flesh and spirit. My flesh wanting to be sarcastic and defend my actions--and my spirit wanting to remain silent and hear and learn from this admonition. It was such a violent struggle-- I couldn't believe how difficult it was just to remain silent!! It really makes me begin to understand the depth of purity and holiness of Our Blessed Mother- and she "pondered all these things in her heart"!

Our Lady, Help of Christians, pray that we might learn silence in the midst of the world!!

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

Shannon,

Do you remember the Little Flower? When she was confronted with wanting to defend herself against a particular difficult to get along with sister, she had to run out the room like a coward in order to not respond to her. She considered that a victory.

Silence is not only something to learn to do wen we are wrong and in need of correcting but when we are right too! I’m learning how to be silent. I had to hear yesterday from a family member about my autistic son, how “I don’t watch him properly.” You know how hard it is to ignore ignorant people who like to judge you who have no clue?

Talk about feeling you flesh burn right off.

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

Shannon,

Do you remember the Little Flower? When she was confronted with wanting to defend herself against a particular difficult to get along with sister, she had to run out the room like a coward in order to not respond to her. She considered that a victory.

Silence is not only something to learn to do wen we are wrong and in need of correcting but when we are right too! I’m learning how to be silent. I had to hear yesterday from a family member about my autistic son, how “I don’t watch him properly.” You know how hard it is to ignore ignorant people who like to judge you who have no clue?

Talk about feeling you flesh burn right off.

The examples of the saints shall teach us alot in these matters
Thats one of the reasons I realy enjoy Saint Alphonsus de Liguori's writitng all his writtings are full of examples of the Saints.

 

[Benedicta00]

It's very hard not to say anything in those situations. It's hard being on both sides actually. There is a girl in my office who tells me about her kids and sometimes the stories just scream to me that I need to tell her this is wrong or that is wrong.......I just say nothing and smile and change the subject. I don't know if I'm right in doing that in some cases...like when she tells me she leaves her 6 year old in the house alone while she goes shopping with her other child......but I don't want to be judgemental since I have my own junk to worry about.

I know exactly what you are talking about- when do we open our mouths and when do we shut em.

If we feel children’s safety are at risk, what do we do?

I think the answer is – and I am in no way even close to this point yet- is humility, true humility and a gift of the three cardinal virtues, wisdom, justice and prudence. Knowing what to say, when to say it and how to say it and knowing who we are in Christ, where our pride does not interfere with our wanting to say it- because we are afraid that we may make other mad at us.

Not wanting to say something that neds to be said because we do not wnat the person to be mad at us is a form of pride.

We need to learn the cardinal virtues- wisdom prudence and justice along with humility.

But on the flip side, we should never act on a doubtful conscious either. If we go off half cocked shooting off our mouths, we might do some damage.

I often fond myself in this dilemma. Not being wise enough or being wise but not prudent and not being humble enough to risk the person being mad at me

So if we really aren’t mature Christians developed in the virtues and spiritual life- we just don’t know what we should do in those situations, so it's best not to say anything.

 

[Cat59]

It's trying to get the balance. A community I was once involved with had a rule book with some great things in it for living a good Christian life (which to my great annoyance, I've lost.) One thing it did say was something about standing up for our rights..and I wish I could remember the actual wording- but it was something along the lines of in conflict not asserting your rights over others unless it was for the sake of others (spiritually or otherwise.) I try to follow the spirit of that (not very good about it mind) because I've found over the years it firstly guides me to act in a more Christian fashion and secondly on retrospect, I can see that acting to assert my rights would have produced so much anger and conflict that nothing would have been achieved.
But sometimes, you have to say something- and as Michelle says, it's knowing when it's the time to speak and the time to stay silent.
Praying for wisdom!

 

[Benedicta00]

Yes, Cat, I agree we should never impose our acting in good conscious at another person’s expense.

I always go back to saint Paul- the smartest thing anyone ever wrote.

“Be ye well balanced, ...your adversary seeks who he may devour.”

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

I know exactly what you are talking about- when do we open our mouths and when do we shut em.

If we feel children’s safety are at risk, what do we do?

I think the answer is – and I am in no way even close to this point yet- is humility, true humility and a gift of the three cardinal virtues, wisdom, justice and prudence. Knowing what to say, when to say it and how to say it and knowing who we are in Christ, where our pride does not interfere with our wanting to say it- because we are afraid that we may make other mad at us.

Not wanting to say something that neds to be said because we do not wnat the person to be mad at us is a form of pride.

We need to learn the cardinal virtues- wisdom prudence and justice along with humility.

But on the flip side, we should never act on a doubtful conscious either. If we go off half cocked shooting off our mouths, we might do some damage.

I often fond myself in this dilemma. Not being wise enough or being wise but not prudent and not being humble enough to risk the person being mad at me

So if we really aren’t mature Christians developed in the virtues and spiritual life- we just don’t know what we should do in those situations, so it's best not to say anything.

I just talked a bit with this today in spiritual direction. And Father said that prudence guides us when speaking up would be valuable and when it would be detrimental. And that though we might remain silent in our words in a situation, that we can refrain by participation through our own actions. But prudence needs to be our guide- so that we can search for the "teachable moment". I think I need to do that with myself, too--look for my own teachable moments!

 

[Cat59]

I'm having to really rely on Prudence to guide me at the moment in relation to a relation who has been ill. I have so much that I would like to say to her but I know if I do, it'll damage our relationship so much, she won't listen to me ever again, and she certainly won't hear what I've got to say. But she needs to hear something from someone soon..
At the moment I'm using silence to try and signfiy lack of approval for certain things she says, but I can't do that forever.
*sigh*

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

I'm having to really rely on Prudence to guide me at the moment in relation to a relation who has been ill. I have so much that I would like to say to her but I know if I do, it'll damage our relationship so much, she won't listen to me ever again, and she certainly won't hear what I've got to say. But she needs to hear something from someone soon..
At the moment I'm using silence to try and signfiy lack of approval for certain things she says, but I can't do that forever.
*sigh*

Praying for you CAt!!!

 

[Cat59]

Thanks Shannon.
I really need prayer about it at the moment as I'm having to spend a lot of time with this person...

 

[krstlros]

Praying for you Cat.

 

[Benedicta00]

I'm having to really rely on Prudence to guide me at the moment in relation to a relation who has been ill. I have so much that I would like to say to her but I know if I do, it'll damage our relationship so much, she won't listen to me ever again, and she certainly won't hear what I've got to say. But she needs to hear something from someone soon..
At the moment I'm using silence to try and signfiy lack of approval for certain things she says, but I can't do that forever.
*sigh*

Be careful Cat… you do not want to do more harm than good.

I’m in a situation now myself were I failed miserably at being silent and by my not being silent, what began as “talking” to someone turned into a argument and I said and made choices our of anger.

I’m left with trying to figure out- A) why didn’t I just let it go? And B) What is the right thing for me to do now? And C) was it God's will for me to not be silent so things can come to a head and his will will be revealed?

Sometimes we think we know what God’s will is and really it’s our own will we have been doing. I have a real hard time at knowing just what is God’s will and what is my own.

Does anyone have any wisdom to share on how we can know when it is God and not us we are following?

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

Sometimes we think we know what God’s will is and really it’s our own will we have been doing. I have a real hard time at knowing just what is God’s will and what is my own.

Does anyone have any wisdom to share on how we can know when it is God and not us we are following?

Thats what I had been asking until I started readin the work that lead to this thread. St. Ligouri made me start rethinking about it that the first step was realy to priase the lord for every thing becuase every thing that is not sin in itself is the Will of the Lord. Then to take that and begin to desire death more then life. If I ever get to that point with trust in the Lord I hope then the Lord will grant me the answer to questions like yours.

for all
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[Benedicta00]

Thats what I had been asking until I started readin the work that lead to this thread. St. Ligouri made me start rethinking about it that the first step was realy to priase the lord for every thing becuase every thing that is not sin in itself is the Will of the Lord. Then to take that and begin to desire death more then life. If I ever get to that point with trust in the Lord I hope then the Lord will grant me the answer to questions like yours.

for all
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Thank you aaron. I know another wise priest said that we should always allow for the natural consequences of our actions to happen. Meaning when we are discerning God’s will to speak up then we have to let the consequences happen. If it means confronting a person about something and the person never talks to you again, if it's the right thing to do, we must do it. If turning someone in to the police is the right thing to do, then we can not be afraid not to do it because they may go to jail.

So- discernment is hard with out humility- examining your conscious to search your true motives.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

You know- I often try to just do the best I can an etrust that Jesus knows what an ignoramus I am. I want to do what He wants- but I am too stupid to figure that out so much of the time. I just beg Him for patience with His little daughter and to redirect her when she is acting wrongly. All; He requires of me is to immediately turn from any sin into which I fall and immediately ask His pardon....

We are so blessed to have Him as our Abba!!

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

 

[Rising_Suns]

Thank you for this thread Aaron. The work you quoted reminded me of "The Imitation of Christ", by Thomas A. kempis. It also reminded me of "The Way of the Pilgrim" by an anonymous Orthodox monk.

I know I have posted these before, but in keeping with the spirit of this thread, I'll post them again. These are just a few small quote from TIoC;
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HUMILITY:
•“Whatever goodness or virtue is in you, believe that your neighbor has better qualities; in this way you will preserve humility.”
• “If you wish to remains steadfast in grace and to grow in virtue, consider yourself an exile and a pilgrim in this world. You must rejoice to be considered a fool and a contemptuous person for the love of God.”
• “Discipline your senses and never indulge in hilarity.”
• “The charitable way is to accuse yourself and to excuse your neighbor.”
• “Those who are indifferent to praise or blame have great tranquility of heart.
• “Those who are turned to God consider the care of themselves before all other cares; and looking seriously to themselves, they find it easy to be silent about the deeds of others.”
• “Seldom are the wise in their own estimation humble enough to allow others to guide them.”
• “Learn to humble yourself and to bow beneath the feet of others for God’s sake.”



SUFFERING:
• “Those who can best suffer will enjoy the most peace, for such persons are masters of themselves.”
• “God gives consolation to makes us stronger in time of adversity. Then temptation follow to prevent us from becoming proud, thinking we are worthy of such favor.”
• “Why do you seek rest when you are born to work? Dispose yourself to patience rather than comfort and to carry the cross rather than to enjoyment.”
• “Nothing is small that comes from the Most High God. Indeed, even if He sends punishment and affliction, we should accept it with gratitude; for whatever He permits to happen to us is always with our salvation in view.”
• “God wants you to learn to suffer tribulation without comfort and, submitting yourself entirely to Him, to grow in humility through tribulation. No one so deeply feels what Christ endured as one who has had to suffer as He did.”
• “The higher persons advance in the way of perfection, the heavier will they often find crosses to be. This is because the more their love of God grows, the more painful is their exile from God.”
• “When you reach the degree of patience that tribulation is sweet to you and even relished for Christ, then you may trust that all is well with you, for you have found paradise on earth.”


“What hinders you most of all from receiving heavenly consolation is your slowness in turning to Me in prayer. Before you pray earnestly to Me, you first seek other comforts, trying to find distraction in outward things.”


“Where is your faith? Stand firm and persevere. Have courage and wait patiently; comfort will come to you when you most need it. Wait for Me, wait; and I will come soon to help you.”

Blessings,

-Davide

 

[OnEaglesWings]

The most recent experience I had in doing God's will was recently, in fact last weekend. I put in my journal so you can read it if you like.

In any case, a lot of times is just letting go of something that you thought was suppose to be yours, and it ends up not being yours. I had to realize from what was preached last Sunday that in order to Glorify God, we had to love God above all else. To do God's loving will even though sometimes we can't see the reasoning. Love of God doesn't mean you neglect eveything else in life. No, on the contrary. What lovoing God first and foremost is it allows you to love everything else in life. When we put God in front of us, everything else just falls into place naturally. Happiness comes naturally. Joy comes naturally. Even dealing with suffering and disappointments are eased because we are not focused on ourselves, we are focused on God.

Beautiful!!!!!