A look at the 1965 Missal, the "actual Mass" of Vatican II...

[Michie]

While it is hard to argue that the new lectionary is problematic, I remain open to the criticism that the 1970 Missal introduced a “hermeneutic of discontinuity” and also flowed from that sort of rupture that the 1960s brought. We do well to see the 1965 Missal as a bridge back to the more modest notions of the council and as a template for the kind of cross-pollination that Pope Benedict wished for when he spoke of the two forms influencing each other...

A look at the 1965 Missal, the "actual Mass" of Vatican II...

 

[AMDG]

Hmm--the article notes that the 1970s missal changes were quite sweeping and not in keeping with Vatican II. I agree and I call the 1970s the "silly seventies". (Don't agree that they are "silly"--remember bell bottom polyester suits, big hair, Disco music, clown Masses, and it seems like almost weekly changes to the Mass responses?)

 

[Shadow316]

one of those posting a comment after the article said that when people got older and more mature they quit listening to Elvis - is he blooming nuts? gotta be. I remember the 60 and 70's - (also the 50s) and I'm still listening to Elvis!

btw - I've read over and over that the Mass is taken straight from the Bible. So, point by point (a prayer at this side of the altar, then to the middle etc) where are these things in the Bible?

 

[Rhamiel]

one of those posting a comment after the article said that when people got older and more mature they quit listening to Elvis - is he blooming nuts? gotta be. I remember the 60 and 70's - (also the 50s) and I'm still listening to elvis!

btw - I've read over and over that the Mass is taken straight from the Bible. So, point by point (a prayer at this side of the altar, then to the middle etc) where are these things in the Bible?

here is a little bit on that, sorry I could not find anything more comprehensive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkcmsxgW7_Q

 

[Shadow316]

thx. i'll try to watch the video. For some reason my sound doesn't always work. my speakers are fine tho (or they wouldn't work even part time). I've been going to ask my son why this is happening - just keep forgetting!

 

[Dylan Michael]

I have two Altar Missals from 1964, and several hand missals. Both from before the Prayers at the foot of the Altar were remove and after.

 

[AMDG]

I too have several Latin-English missals from before 1965. I too note that the prayers at the foot of the altar were removed--same with the Last Gospel and prayers after Mass.

Oh, since I also have Mass cards of the responses the people would be expected to answer during Mass, (and those responses are in both Latin with a phonetic spelling and English) I never "bought" that "we changed things so people could understand".

 

[billvelek]

I too have several Latin-English missals from before 1965. I too note that the prayers at the foot of the altar were removed--same with the Last Gospel and prayers after Mass.

Oh, since I also have Mass cards of the responses the people would be expected to answer during Mass, (and those responses are in both Latin with a phonetic spelling and English) I never "bought" that "we changed things so people could understand".

Although most of my memory has faded after all these years -- especially since I was just a kid when the Latin Mass was said -- what little I do remember, and miss, is the much greater reverence and homage to God which was apparent -- and was actually demonstrated -- during the Mass, especially regarding the Body of Christ. The priest never touched the consecrated host until his index-finger and thumb were first cleansed, and then, from the time that the host was consecrated until the cleansing again after distributing the Eucharist (to flush any particles of the Body of Christ into the chalice to be consumed), the priest continuously kept his index finger and thumb pinched together -- never touching anything, including the altar, except for the Body of Christ -- in order to avoid accidentally dropping any crumbs of the Body of Christ. That's how much the real presence of the Body of Christ was believed and revered. Looking at this video ...

...

... reminded me of that. How different the attitude of the Catholic Church was from today. I'm NOT saying that priests don't follow that same practice with the same reverence in the New Order Mass; I never really took notice, but I will presume that this hasn't changed. However, in the New Order Mass we have Eucharistic Ministers (whose finger and thumb are never cleansed, either before or after touching the host), placing it in the un-cleansed hand of people who, after placing the host into their mouth, possibly still have crumbs remaining on their hand and finger. In fact, I will go so far as to say, on the microscopic level, that they MOST DEFINITELY DO have remnants of the Body of Christ on their skin, and, without proper cleansing, they might as well just brush any crumbs off onto the floor or anything else they touch. Quite a bit of difference; what ever POSSESSED (and you can read into that word whatever you will) ... what ever possessed our church to make such a change? What did it improve? How did it enhance the celebration? How did it deepen our faith and our love for God? The only thing it did was to help speed-up the distribution of communion so that the length of the Mass could be kept shorter. Back when I was a kid prior to the New Order Mass, if the church was crowded, additional priests would come out to assist with Communion.

Also, in contrast to today, ALL of us always received the Eucharist on our knees, as a further sign of worship and of humbling ourselves before Almighty God our KING, ... and now we just boldly stand before Him as if He is nothing more than just a casual friend or even a stranger. And every Sunday, before I stopped attending Mass, I was always reminded of the nuns who taught me in school; we were taught to keep the host in our mouth until it softens enough to swallow it whole, without chewing. What was bringing back that memory was the great number of people chewing the host like a cow chewing its cud -- even adults (though rarely, if ever, anyone my age). And I was speaking to my 38 year old son just last night, and he mentioned that he did not even learn until college that we aren't supposed to receive communion with an unclean soul. That, to my embarrassment and shame, reflects great failing on my part (for which I will be judged), just as much, if not more, as the failure of the CCD/PRE program of our church where he did attend until he graduated from high school. He said that he first learned when a visiting monk paused, before Communion, to warn everyone of the gravity of receiving Communion while unworthy; my son asked me why, throughout all his years of attending Catholic Mass, no priest had EVER, to his recollection, ever mentioned that fact.

Lord God, how things have changed, and like I said, I don't understand why THAT part of the Mass was in need of change. Other than that, I really don't know that I should have a problem with the celebrant facing the congregation or with switching from Latin to the vernacular, since I haven't really given any consideration to those changes.

May God help us.

Your brother in Christ,

Bill Velek