1 John 3:15 actually means what it says.

[Bible Highlighter]

When I quote 1 John 3:15 to some people, I get the impression that they are not believing what that verse plainly says. For me, 1 John 3:15 actually means what it says.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

So this verse says that any person who hates his brother is like a murderer. It then says we know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. So if we hate our brother, that means no eternal life abides in us. It's pretty plain and straight forward when I read this verse. But I know many who appear to think it says something else. I am curious as to why they think it says something else. Were they led to this conclusion based on the context?

 

[Lady Bug]

The thing I noticed about that passage is that the term "brother" is used in it. When we call people our brethren, I think it means our fellow believers. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Lady Bug]

p.s I agree that there are verses in the Bible that do appear to mean exactly what they say, and it boggles my mind how people can say it means something different.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

so what is the alternate meaning?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

so what is the alternate meaning?

That's what I would like to know.
For me it destroys any idea of OSAS or a Non-OSAS sin and still be saved type belief.

 

[Hidden In Him]

When I quote 1 John 3:15 to some people, I get the impression that they are not believing what that verse plainly says. For me, 1 John 3:15 actually means what it says.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

So this verse says that any person who hates his brother is like a murderer. It then says we know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. So if we hate our brother, that means no eternal life abides in us. It's pretty plain and straight forward when I read this verse. But I know many who appear to think it says something else. I am curious as to why they think it says something else. Were they led to this conclusion based on the context?

I agree. Matthew 15:18-20 reads, "Those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands defiles not a man."

 

[Hidden In Him]

I agree. Matthew 15:18-20 reads, "Those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands defiles not a man."

And quite frankly, the scary part about this truth is that you see a high percentage of Christians very willfully harboring evil thoughts towards their brethren, and even expressing those thoughts, without thinking they're committing a sin. I see this at the various Christian Forums a lot.

 

[bcbsr]

When I quote 1 John 3:15 to some people, I get the impression that they are not believing what that verse plainly says. For me, 1 John 3:15 actually means what it says.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

So this verse says that any person who hates his brother is like a murderer. It then says we know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. So if we hate our brother, that means no eternal life abides in us. It's pretty plain and straight forward when I read this verse. But I know many who appear to think it says something else. I am curious as to why they think it says something else. Were they led to this conclusion based on the context?

The epistle of 1John is all about how to distinguish between children of God and children of the devil among alleged "Christians". For example it says, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:9,10

Understand, however, that the English translation doesn't bring out a semantic in the Greek (New Testament was originally written in Greek), which clarified what John is talking about. When John uses the Aorist tense in 1John he's referring to events. When he uses the Present tense he speaking of lifestyle, or characteristic behavior. I've written study guides which thoroughly analyze 1John along this line.

So when he speaks of hating his brother (fellow Christian), he's speaking of that which is characteristic of the person. He is characteristically a murderer. Paul can be understood in the same sense in the lists he gives as in 1Cor 6:9,10; Eph 5:5 and Gal 5:19-21 of people who will not inherit the kingdom of God. In fact he ends the Galatians one with "those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Also I think the hatred he's referring to goes beyond not liking someone. Rather there's also malice involved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The epistle of 1John is all about how to distinguish between children of God and children of the devil among alleged "Christians". For example it says, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:9,10

Understand, however, that the English translation doesn't bring out a semantic in the Greek (New Testament was originally written in Greek), which clarified what John is talking about. When John uses the Aorist tense in 1John he's referring to events. When he uses the Present tense he speaking of lifestyle, or characteristic behavior. I've written study guides which thoroughly analyze 1John along this line.

So when he speaks of hating his brother (fellow Christian), he's speaking of that which is characteristic of the person. He is characteristically a murderer. Paul can be understood in the same sense in the lists he gives as in 1Cor 6:9,10; Eph 5:5 and Gal 5:19-21 of people who will not inherit the kingdom of God. In fact he ends the Galatians one with "those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Also I think the hatred he's referring to goes beyond not liking someone. Rather there's also malice involved.

Well, I do not believe it is talking about habitually hating your brother in 1 John 3:15. It is clearly talking about a singular act here. The verse really does not suggest that one is hating in an ongoing sense here (exclusively). How many murders does it take to be a murderer? Only one murder. How many times do you have to hate your brother in order to hate your brother? It only takes one act of hatred in order to hate your brother. We see this in James 2. The brethren are hating their poor brethren by separating them from the rich brethren. James says to these brethren, "if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors." James drive his point home even more by saying that faith without works is dead. Meaning, they cannot hate their poor brethren and expect that to work out for them. For a dead faith cannot save. They need to show love towards the poor brethren. They need to first reconcile with these poor brethren and then not show favoritism (as if they are dirty bad people).

 

[bling]

When Jesus was asked: "who is my brother" did he say "Fellow Jews"?

 

[SeventyOne]

When I quote 1 John 3:15 to some people, I get the impression that they are not believing what that verse plainly says. For me, 1 John 3:15 actually means what it says.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

So this verse says that any person who hates his brother is like a murderer. It then says we know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. So if we hate our brother, that means no eternal life abides in us. It's pretty plain and straight forward when I read this verse. But I know many who appear to think it says something else. I am curious as to why they think it says something else. Were they led to this conclusion based on the context?

You're right. It's quite clear. It's a sign of an unbeliever. One who hates doesn't have eternal life within them. If we hate, or know those who do, we can rest assured that such a person isn't a believer. Like he states a couple verses later in 3:19, when we love we are assured we are of the truth. Conversely, if we hate, we are not of the truth. It's a clear delineation between believers and non-believers.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You're right. It's quite clear. It's a sign of an unbeliever. One who hates doesn't have eternal life within them. If we hate, or know those who do, we can rest assured that such a person isn't a believer. Like he states a couple verses later in 3:19, when we love we are assured we are of the truth. Conversely, if we hate, we are not of the truth. It's a clear delineation between believers and non-believers.

John is writing to believers and not unbelievers. Also, it is in context to one's spiritual brother. An unbeliever does not have a spiritual brother.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

When Jesus was asked: "who is my brother" did he say "Fellow Jews"?

Nowhere did I ever reference the Jews.

 

[SeventyOne]

John is writing to believers and not unbelievers. Also, it is in context to one's spiritual brother. An unbeliever does not have a spiritual brother.

The 'context' he gives is the relationship between Cain and Able. Are you saying John is implying some spiritual brotherhood in that relationship?

Also, he's providing assurance of salvation to believers by showing a trait of unbelievers which we don't have.

If the point being made here is that salvation is lost if we hate, then the example must be that you are inferring Cain was saved before hating and murdering his brother.

 

[bling]

John is writing to believers and not unbelievers. Also, it is in context to one's spiritual brother. An unbeliever does not have a spiritual brother.

Jesus seems to be saying: "all people are your neighbor".

 

[Mark_Sam]

Well, I do not believe it is talking about habitually hating your brother in 1 John 3:15. It is clearly talking about a singular act here. The verse really does not suggest that one is hating in an ongoing sense here (exclusively). How many murders does it take to be a murderer? Only one murder. How many times do you have to hate your brother in order to hate your brother? It only takes one act of hatred in order to hate your brother. We see this in James 2. The brethren are hating their poor brethren by separating them from the rich brethren. James says to these brethren, "if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors." James drive his point home even more by saying that faith without works is dead. Meaning, they cannot hate their poor brethren and expect that to work out for them. For a dead faith cannot save. They need to show love towards the poor brethren. They need to first reconcile with these poor brethren and then not show favoritism (as if they are dirty bad people).

If hating your brother even once makes you a murderer, and murderers don't have eternal life, that means that everyone who has ever hated someone (most of mankind, I supposed) are unable to be saved. Why repent, you're a murderer, you cannot be saved. And I don't think that's what this verse means, as it clearly contradicts other parts of Scripture.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The 'context' he gives is the relationship between Cain and Able. Are you saying John is implying some spiritual brotherhood in that relationship?

Also, he's providing assurance of salvation to believers by showing a trait of unbelievers which we don't have.

If the point being made here is that salvation is lost if we hate, then the example must be that you are inferring Cain was saved before hating and murdering his brother.

Yes, John is comparing the spiritual brotherhood with the physical brotherhood as a parallel. Contrasting the physical with the spiritual is nothing new in Scripture. Many of Jesus's parables were a contrast between the physical and the spiritual.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If hating your brother even once makes you a murderer, and murderers don't have eternal life, that means that everyone who has ever hated someone (most of mankind, I supposed) are unable to be saved. Why repent, you're a murderer, you cannot be saved. And I don't think that's what this verse means, as it clearly contradicts other parts of Scripture.

But you have no other meaning. You are not offering an explanation. You are only going off of what you believe is true based on your own personal experience and not by faith (i.e. that which is unseen). So I am sorry, it means what it says. If a believer hates their brother, they have no eternal life abiding in them. It actually means that.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

If you're thinking this refers to an emotional state, then you need to have brain surgery to remove those amygdalas. If you think that hate is an action, or a way of life, then it's another matter. There's a great deal more to this than mere animosity.

 

[SeventyOne]

Yes, John is comparing the spiritual brotherhood with the physical brotherhood as a parallel. Contrasting the physical with the spiritual is nothing new in Scripture. Many of Jesus's parables were a contrast between the physical and the spiritual.

I think that's a stretch and actually makes his example meaningless.