Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

trophy33 · Oct 26, 2024

Premises:
1. The Sabbath was a part of the Mosaic Law and of the Mosaic Law only.
2. The Law was only for Jews, since Moses till Christ.
3. Even the book of Genesis was a theological part of the Mosaic Law and is not literal (namely in its creation account).

If these premises are all true, we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 26, 2024

1. God spoke the Ten Commandments and calls them My (God) commandments, Exo 20:6 Jesus also called them the commandments of God Mat 15:3-14, no change. You will never find the phrase the commandments of Moses- God wrote. Exo 31:18 they are His works Exo 32:16 Moses is not God. They were part of the law of Moses just like they were part of everyone's law- because they are God's commandments, and no scripture says we can break God's commandments - that's not how we are reconciled Rev 22:14-15
2. The Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and everyone Isa 56:1-6 thus saith the Lord- God wants to bless and sanctify all Eze 20:12 not just Jews. Without His sanctification we really are nothing because we can't sanctify ourselves Isa 66:17
3. Faith is part of being Christian and taking God at His Word that He literally spoke Creation and it was so, the Sabbath is part of Creation God's perfect plan before sin.. God said Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy Exo 20:8 He is the God of Creation Exo 20:11 the same God of Judgement Rev 14:7 He changes not Mal 3:6 and His Words will never translate into forget the Sabbath and now we can profane My holy day Isa 58:13, in doing so, who are we really profaning? Eze 22:26

Happy Sabbath!

trophy33 · Oct 26, 2024

SabbathBlessings said:
1. God said the Ten Commandments are His Commandments, Exo 20:6 Jesus called them the commandments of God Mat 15:3-14. You will never find the phrase the commandment of Moses- God wrote. Exo 31:18 Moses is not God. They were part of the law of Moses just like they were part of everyone's law- because they are God's commandments, and no scripture says we can break God's commandments - that's not how we are reconciled Rev 22:14-15
2. The Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and everyone Isa 56:1-6 thus saith the Lord- God wants to bless and sanctify all Eze 20:12 not just Jews. Without His sanctification we really are nothing because we can't sanctify ourselves Isa 66:17
3. Faith is part of being Christian and taking God at His Word that He literally spoke Creation and it was so.

I would like to focus on the OP.

Do you agree that if all the three premises are true, we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath? Or do you see some logical inconsistency in the premises and/or in the conclusion?

Leaf473 · Oct 26, 2024

trophy33 said:
Premises:
1. The Sabbath was a part of the Mosaic Law and of the Mosaic Law only.
2. The Law was only for Jews, since Moses till Christ.
3. Even the book of Genesis was a theological part of the Mosaic Law and is not literal (namely in its creation account).

If these premises are all true, we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath.

Well, starting with #1, it does look like rituals relating to a time and place were part of the law of Moses, yes

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4:3 - New American Standard Bible

So we too, when we were children, were held in bondage under the elementary principles of the world.

www.biblegateway.com

trophy33 · Oct 26, 2024

Leaf473 said:
Well, starting with #1, it does look like rituals relating to a time and place were part of the law of Moses, yes

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4:3 - New American Standard Bible

So we too, when we were children, were held in bondage under the elementary principles of the world.

www.biblegateway.com

Do we know of any other nation than the Mosaic Jews that kept the 7th day as a command from God?

Also, do we know of any other nation than the Mosaic Jews that believed the world was created in 6 days and that God rested on the 7th?

If not, we can conclude that we have no evidence this belief existed outside of the Mosaic Jews culture/nation.

Leaf473 · Oct 26, 2024

trophy33 said:
Do we know of any other nation than the Mosaic Jews that kept the 7th day as a command from God?

I can't think of one

trophy33 said:
Also, do we know of any other nation than the Mosaic Jews that believed the world was created in 6 days and that God rested on the 7th?

Again, nothing comes to mind

trophy33 said:
If not, we can conclude that we have no evidence this belief existed outside of the Mosaic Jews culture/nation.

Sounds reasonable

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 147:20 - New American Standard Bible

He has not dealt this way with any other nation; And as for His judgments, they have not known them. Praise the LORD!

www.biblegateway.com

Bob S · Oct 26, 2024

trophy33 said:
Do we know of any other nation than the Mosaic Jews that kept the 7th day as a command from God?

I have asked this question many times on this forum and every poster has ignored answering except one who wrote that many nation's calendars used the seven-day cycle and called the seventh day some translation of Sabbath

trophy33 said:
Also, do we know of any other nation than the Mosaic Jews that believed the world was created in 6 days and that God rested on the 7th?

We only get that information from the Bible.

trophy33 said:
If not, we can conclude that we have no evidence this belief existed outside of the Mosaic Jews culture/nation.

I certainly believe we can. All other nations are Gentiles and unless individual Gentiles agreed to become circumcised they were not allowed to take part in Holy services.

Freth · Oct 26, 2024

Hebrews 4:1-13 says there remains a rest for God's people and defines what that rest is.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Hebrews calls for entering into the seventh day Sabbath rest—lest you fall into unbelief.

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Conclusion:

Hebrews 4 says there remains a rest for the people of God and defines that rest as the seventh day Sabbath rest instituted at creation.
Hebrews 4 shows that His (Jesus) rest is the seventh day Sabbath rest.
Hebrews 4 shows that the gospel message includes the seventh day Sabbath rest.
Hebrews 4 in its opening words shows that some in that day did not hear the gospel truth concering the seventh day Sabbath rest, and so it is with this day.
Hebrews 4 is a call to worship and a warning against falling into unbelief. The very same call can be found in Revelation 14:6-7.

There are many other proofs in the Old Testament and New Testament alike concerning the seventh day Sabbath as a rest that remains for God's people, and these proofs have been posted in this forum (Sabbath and the Law) for years. There is overwhelming evidence for the seventh day Sabbath rest, and no evidence against it, unless scripture is taken out of context.

There is a chiasmus in Hebrews 4:1-11. At the very center is this sobering statement: "To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts."

trophy33 · Oct 26, 2024

Freth said:
Hebrews 4:1-13 says there remains a rest for God's people and defines what that rest is.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Hebrews calls for entering into the seventh day Sabbath rest—lest you fall into unbelief.

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Conclusion:

Hebrews 4 says there remains a rest for the people of God and defines that rest as the seventh day Sabbath rest instituted at creation.

Hebrews 4 shows that His (Jesus) rest is the seventh day Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4 warns against falling into unbelief concerning the seventh day Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4 shows that the gospel message includes the seventh day Sabbath rest.

There are many other proofs in the Old Testament and New Testament alike concerning the seventh day Sabbath as a rest that remains for God's people, and these proofs have been posted in this forum (Sabbath and the Law) for years. There is overwhelming evidence for the seventh day Sabbath rest, and no evidence against it, unless scripture is taken out of context.

I would like you to focus on the OP instead of interpreting The Letter to Jews.

Do you agree that if all the three premises are true, we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath? Or do you see some logical inconsistency in the premises and/or in the conclusion?

Also, if you accepted that the world was not created in literal 6 days, but the days are just a symbolic literary device, would your position regarding the literal 7th day rest change in any way?

Leaf473 · Oct 26, 2024

Freth said:
Hebrews 4:1-13 says there remains a rest for God's people and defines what that rest is.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Hebrews calls for entering into the seventh day Sabbath rest—lest you fall into unbelief.

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Conclusion:

Hebrews 4 says there remains a rest for the people of God and defines that rest as the seventh day Sabbath rest instituted at creation.

Hebrews 4 shows that His (Jesus) rest is the seventh day Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4 shows that the gospel message includes the seventh day Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4 in its opening words shows that some in that day did not hear the gospel truth concering the seventh day Sabbath rest, and so it is with this day.

Hebrews 4 is a call to worship and a warning against falling into unbelief. The very same call can be found in Revelation 14:6-7.

There are many other proofs in the Old Testament and New Testament alike concerning the seventh day Sabbath as a rest that remains for God's people, and these proofs have been posted in this forum (Sabbath and the Law) for years. There is overwhelming evidence for the seventh day Sabbath rest, and no evidence against it, unless scripture is taken out of context.

Hebrews 4:7 ...To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

It looks to me like post Resurrection, some people continued to keep the special days in the law of Moses, and some did not

Peace be with you, my man

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 21:20 - New American Standard Bible

And when they heard about them, they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;

www.biblegateway.com

HIM · Oct 26, 2024

trophy33 said:
Premises:
1. The Sabbath was a part of the Mosaic Law and of the Mosaic Law only.

The Sabbath was made for man.

God rested the Sabbath day from all His works.

When He did He blessed the Day and Hallowed it.
Why?

trophy33 said:
2. The Law was only for Jews, since Moses till Christ.

And Anyone who came to God through their ministry.

trophy33 said:
3. Even the book of Genesis was a theological part of the Mosaic Law and is not literal (namely in its creation account).

Lie! Jesus quoted many parts oi it as they were true. As did Paul.

trophy33 said:
If these premises are all true, we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath.

They aren't. Not one of them.

Paul said through Christ, The Law is for sinners.

Are you a sinner?

Then the Law, if used lawfully is for you.

Leaf473 · Oct 26, 2024

It looks to me like there is a difference between saying
The Sabbath was made for humans, not humans for the Sabbath

And
God intended for every human in all times and places to stop working from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset and during that time attend synagogue or church for about an hour

trophy33 · Oct 26, 2024

HIM said:
The Sabbath was made for man.

God rested the Sabbath day from all His works.

When He did He blessed the Day and Hallowed it...

If you did not believe the Genesis account of creation is literal, namely the days, would it make your position less dogmatic? And refrain from using words like "Lie!", thanks. Keep emotions and militancy off this thread.

daq · Oct 26, 2024

trophy33 said:
Premises:
1. The Sabbath was a part of the Mosaic Law and of the Mosaic Law only.
2. The Law was only for Jews, since Moses till Christ.
3. Even the book of Genesis was a theological part of the Mosaic Law and is not literal (namely in its creation account).

If these premises are all true, we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath.

I'll focus on number three.

The first man Adam, the natural man, is formed of dust from the adamah, (soil, earthy, Gen 2:7, 1Cor 15:45-47), and became a living soul. The last Adam or second Adam is from the heavens and is a life-giving Spirit. Howbeit the spiritual did not come first, rather, the natural man came first, (Gen 2:7), then the spiritual, (Gen 1:26-28), and Paul doesn't just make this up: it is proven to be so in a very important Psalm penned by king David and quoted multiple times in the writings of the Apostles.

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 ASV
45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. [Gen 2:7] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: [Gen 2:7] the second man is of heaven [Gen 1:26-28].

The second man Adam from the heavens is the Son of Man, (Gen 1:26-28), because the first man Adam transgressed, and died, and was (re)created in the image of Elohim. This is inescapable due to the following Psalm.

Psalms 8 KJV
1 To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David. O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [Heb 2:6]
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour [Heb 2:7].
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; [Gen 1:26-28, Heb 2:7] thou hast put all things under his feet: [Gen 1:26-28, 1Cor 15:24-28, Eph 1:22, Heb 2:8]
7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas [Gen 1:26-28].
9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!

Therefore no doubt the Son of Man, our Savior and the author of our salvation, is indeed Master of the Shabbat just as written in the Gospel accounts. To sidestep or set aside the Shabbat is to treat his authority lightly, (to put it mildly), for why is he Master of Shabbat if no one is supposed to remember and honor it anymore?

trophy33 · Oct 26, 2024

daq said:
I'll focus on number three.

The first man Adam, the natural man, is formed of dust from the adamah, (soil, earthy, Gen 2:7, 1Cor 15:45-47), and became a living soul. The last Adam or second Adam is from the heavens and is a life-giving Spirit. Howbeit the spiritual did not come first, rather, the natural man came first, (Gen 2:7), then the spiritual, (Gen 1:26-28), and Paul doesn't just make this up: it is proven to be so in a very important Psalm penned by king David and quoted multiple times in the writings of the Apostles.

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 ASV
45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. [Gen 2:7] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: [Gen 2:7] the second man is of heaven [Gen 1:26-28].

The second man Adam from the heavens is the Son of Man, (Gen 1:26-28), because the first man Adam transgressed, and died, and was (re)created in the image of Elohim. This is inescapable due to the following Psalm.

Psalms 8 KJV
1 To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David. O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? [Heb 2:6]
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour [Heb 2:7].
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; [Gen 1:26-28, Heb 2:7] thou hast put all things under his feet: [Gen 1:26-28, 1Cor 15:24-28, Eph 1:22, Heb 2:8]
7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas [Gen 1:26-28].
9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!

Therefore no doubt the Son of Man, our Savior and the author of our salvation, is indeed Master of the Shabbat just as written in the Gospel accounts. To sidestep or set aside the Shabbat is to treat his authority lightly, (to put it mildly), for why is he Master of Shabbat if no one is supposed to remember and honor it anymore?

If you accepted the standard biology, geology, archaeology... etc. and therefore stopped reading Genesis in a literal way, would your theological position change in any way?

HIM · Oct 26, 2024

trophy33 said:
If you did not believe the Genesis account of creation is literal, namely the days, would it make your position less dogmatic?

Where does it stop? Subjective reasoning is never ending. It can't true because one does not understand how it can be.

Sad. Especially considering Jesus gives credit to the accounts, as does Paul through Christ.

Was Jesus confused?

trophy33 said:
And refrain from using words like "Lie!", thanks. Keep emotions and militancy off this thread.

Save that. There is No emotion. It is an Objective fact.

HIM · Oct 26, 2024

trophy33 said:
If you accepted the standard biology, geology, archaeology... etc. and therefore stopped reading Genesis in a literal way, would your theological position change in any way?

I love science. Always have.

trophy33 · Oct 26, 2024

HIM said:
Where does it stop?

Wherever there will be no evidence or reason to go further. You did not respond to my question - is your theological position dependent on the literal reading of Genesis? It certainly seems so for all of you who argue for keeping the Sabbath, but I want to be sure.

guevaraj · Oct 26, 2024

trophy33 said:
we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath.

Brother, if that statement were true, God through Paul would not have told us to keep God's rest on the seventh day of creation corrected from Jewish tradition since Joshua in the book of Hebrews after the resurrection of Jesus.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)

The context tells us that if we disobey the Sabbath like those who died in the desert were half a day late with Manna for 40 years as punishment by "oath", we will "fall".

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

daq · Oct 26, 2024

trophy33 said:
If you accepted the standard biology, geology, archaeology... etc. and therefore stopped reading Genesis in a literal way, would your theological position change in any way?

As it is, I already do not read and understand the opening creation accounts in the mainstream traditional natural-minded way, so the answer is that my understanding of the scripture and this topic would not (has no need to) change.

Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Friend

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Messianic

Well-Known Member

Friend

Friend

Well-Known Member

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins

Messianic

Similar threads