Leftist ‘faith leaders’ twisting Bible to support wasteful gov't spending

[Michie]

The State will provide. The State giveth (to NGOs) and the State taketh away (from taxpayers).

The letter begins with the admonition: “Defending the vulnerable and opposing unjust decisions are faith-rooted commitments we must examine during Lent.” Who is more vulnerable than the unborn? “Faith communities can be lights shining in the darkness, and truth-tellers to power, based on our proximity and relationship to the most vulnerable children of God who we are especially called to love.” No proximity is any closer than the relationship between a mother and her unborn child. But truth-telling about the violence and exploitation of abortion doesn’t matter to these so-called “faith leaders.” Nearly every one of the signers is radically pro-abortion: Jim Wallis (Sojourners), Shane Claiborne, Bishop Claude Alexander(Evangelicals for Harris), Rev. Dr. Starsky Wilson (Children’s Defense Fund), Dr. Jacquelyn Dupont-Walker (AME Church) and so many more.

Jim Wallis

One of the signers, Jim Wallis, is the founder of the pro-abortion “faith-based” magazine Sojourners. In an article he penned about abortion he asks: “Is Common Ground on Abortion Possible?” Let’s see. Is common ground possible on slavery? Sex trafficking? Domestic violence? Clearly, abortion resides in a different moral space for liberal Evangelicals. And of course, the sole example he gives for advocating abortion’s legality is rape. Never mind those cases constitute less than 1% of all our nation’s tragic million annual abortions. Are those lives worth less? I was conceived in rapebut adopted in love. Shouldn’t Christians believe in a God who can enable triumph to rise from tragedy?

Rev. Adam Taylor

The President of Sojourners seems to have no regard for the most vulnerable human beings. In his response to the Dobbs ruling, Taylor opines: “Now is the time to rededicate ourselves to protecting the reproductive rights of all people. Everyone deserves equal access to the full range of reproductive healthcare services, including safe and legal abortion.”

Dr. Jacquelyn Dupont-Walker

A member of the Social Action Commission of the African Methodist Episcopal (AME) Church, a predominantly black denomination, Dr. Jacquelyn Dupont-Walker is also pro-abortion. The AME church repeatedly denounces “white supremacy” and racism while adamantly supporting it in the form of systemic abortion — the number one killer of black lives. When the Dobbsdecision was handed down by the Supreme Court, Dr. Dupont-Walker signed an official (and bizarre) statement from the AME, declaring: “This decision puts millions of women’s lives in danger and threatens the civil rights of all people. We will not let the retrogressive politics of one extremist political party strip away the rights for which our fore parents died.” Nobody’s parents died so that someone’s child could be killed by abortion. “We must stand together against all forms of racism, xenophobia, and white supremacist misrepresentation of biblical faith.” Every one of those words is a misrepresentation.

Shane Claiborne

I remember sitting in a meeting with a bunch of liberal Evangelicals in DC a few years ago. Claiborne was part of it. One of the most ridiculous things said during that weekend conference was that a pro-life ethic included advocating for cage-free chickens! Claiborne et al were not interested in my challenge to the group to see abortion as an injustice equivalent to slavery. Quite frankly, most of them didn’t see it as an injustice at all. Claiborne only advocates against late-term abortions (which comprise less than 4% of all abortions), explaining: “To me, the broad framework for that is for abortion to be legal and safe, and for us to work to make it rarer and rarer, and to limit abortion in the later term.”

Should slavery have been safe, legal and rarer and rarer? These “faith leaders” probably would’ve demanded so.

Leftist ‘faith leaders’ twisting Bible to support wasteful gov't spending

It s not just paid activists and politicians jumping into the resistance ring; it s leftist faith leaders too

www.christianpost.com

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Reads like an anti- left screed implying that any Christians leaders on the left are "faith leaders" - as in not Christian.

Not cool.

I don't know any Christian leaders burning Teslas. Do you?

Nor do I see any Christian leaders on the Left demanding the goverment fund the Church. One could argue that it is the right that wants the goverment to fund Christian schools.

The article says "I don’t recall Jesus demanding the government take care of the poor and the needy and ensure justice for those being crushed."

Well, I don't see that Jesus ever advocated for the goverment to treat others as bad as we can, such as this:

Chained for hours on a prison bus without access to food, water or a toilet. Told by guards to urinate on the floor. Held "like sardines in a jar," as many as 27 women in a small holding cell. Sleeping on a concrete floor. Getting one three-minute shower over three or four days in custody.

And there are folks on the right who identify as Christian cheering that type of treatment. That is deplorable.

There is a key verse in the OT that applies.
Mic 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God

Do you believe the government should take from the producers of society to give to those who are poor and needy?

 

[Vambram]

Do you really think that even in the USA, that the funding for the poor would be enough to go through churches? Most do not even tithe, with some estimates for church givers in the range of 17 dollars a week. Others suggest $2000 a year or so is given on average.
I think that modern times has a requirement to insure that no one starves and gets help. Why? Because we are not in an agricultural society where people can glean freely off the farmer's land. Land is quite scarce and many have no personal resources to have livestock or grow much on their own. So structurally this change requires some consideration for the poor. One could argue it is too generous but I guess I am liberal enough to not let a hospital turn away an emergency or that the poor should starve, especially seniors and children.

Perhaps you might be missing the point that the author of the article was trying to make.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Do you believe the government should take from the producers of society to give to those who are poor and needy?

If the poor and needy include disabled physically and mentally, or medically challenged, and in many other cases.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

If the poor and needy include disabled physically and mentally, or medically challenged, and in many other cases.

And you consider this forced wealth redistribution a Christian principle? That Christ taught?

 

[FreeinChrist]

And you consider this forced wealth redistribution a Christian principle? That Christ taught?

Yeah. It goes along with feeding the poor and clothing the naked.

Did Jesus ever teach to treat people as bad as you can? Did the Golden Rule come with a caveat 'only to those who are just like you" or 'only those who believe just like you"?

What did God say about how a stranger in the land was to be treated?
This comes to mind:

Isa 58:3
‘Why have we fasted,’ they say, ‘and you have not seen it? Why have we humbled ourselves, and you have not noticed?’ “Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please and exploit all your workers.

Isa 58:4
Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife, and in striking each other with wicked fists. You cannot fast as you do today and expect your voice to be heard on high.
Isa 58:5
Is this the kind of fast I have chosen, only a day for people to humble themselves? Is it only for bowing one’s head like a reed and for lying in sackcloth and ashes? Is that what you call a fast, a day acceptable to the LORD?

Isa 58:6
“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke?

Isa 58:7
Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter— when you see the naked, to clothe them, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

Isa 58:8
Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness[fn] will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Yeah. It goes along with feeding the poor and clothing the naked.

Did Jesus ever teach to treat people as bad as you can? Did the Golden Rule come with a caveat 'only to those who are just like you" or 'only those who believe just like you"?

What did God say about how a stranger in the land was to be treated?
This comes to mind:

Isa 58:3
‘Why have we fasted,’ they say, ‘and you have not seen it? Why have we humbled ourselves, and you have not noticed?’ “Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please and exploit all your workers.

Isa 58:4
Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife, and in striking each other with wicked fists. You cannot fast as you do today and expect your voice to be heard on high.
Isa 58:5
Is this the kind of fast I have chosen, only a day for people to humble themselves? Is it only for bowing one’s head like a reed and for lying in sackcloth and ashes? Is that what you call a fast, a day acceptable to the LORD?

Isa 58:6
“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke?

Isa 58:7
Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter— when you see the naked, to clothe them, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

Isa 58:8
Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness[fn] will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.

Just so we're clear. You believe it is part of Jesus' teaching that the state can forcibly take from another person and give it to someone you personally find worthy of it?

 

[Richard T]

Perhaps you might be missing the point that the author of the article was trying to make.

I admit I broaden the topic sometimes. So thanks for pointing this out. I was trying to respond to this part of the article "I don’t recall Jesus demanding the government take care of the poor and the needy and ensure justice for those being crushed. Oh, wait, that’s because that’s the Church’s job."
I should of included no Jesus did not demand, but neither did abolish. I was trying to point out that if helping the poor was only a Christian responsibility, the church would have to really step up their giving, even if there were less taxes, I am afraid the needs would be so great that many would go hungry, or not admitted to the ER, even in the USA.

 

[FireDragon76]

I admit I broaden the topic sometimes. So thanks for pointing this out. I was trying to respond to this part of the article "I don’t recall Jesus demanding the government take care of the poor and the needy and ensure justice for those being crushed. Oh, wait, that’s because that’s the Church’s job."
I should of included no Jesus did not demand, but neither did abolish. I was trying to point out that if helping the poor was only a Christian responsibility, the church would have to really step up their giving, even if there were less taxes, I am afraid the needs would be so great that many would go hungry, or not admitted to the ER, even in the USA.

Martin Luther, Calvin, and other early reformers actually believed that helping the destitute was a function of civil society as a whole, and not a private religious work.

Of course, they were not economists or civil administrators, and their ideas were never fully worked out in a humane fashion (and often when they were, were colored by highly moralistic assumptions about poverty), but it's not inconceivable to see the modern social democracies of Europe as being in keeping with a certain kind of Protestantism.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Just so we're clear. You believe it is part of Jesus' teaching that the state can forcibly take from another person and give it to someone you personally find worthy of it?

Answer my questions first. Where did Jesus say we are to treat people as bad as we can?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Answer my questions first. Where did Jesus say we are to treat people as bad as we can?

No where. But did he say you have a right to take someone else's property and redistribute it?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Just so we're clear. You believe it is part of Jesus' teaching that the state can forcibly take from another person and give it to someone you personally find worthy of it?

BTW, you are either badly twisting what I wrote, or purposely adding things to it.

Where did I use the word 'force'? Where did I say I evaluate the person receiving help ?

Do you believe people like this should be helped by governement services?

 

[FreeinChrist]

No where. But did he say you have a right to take someone else's property and redistribute it?

As I am not advocating that someone walk up to a person or their house and take property, it was a dumb thing to suggest the use of force.
Helping via taxes and personal donation is Christ-like behavior imho. So is funding ramps and sidewalk cutaways for wheelchair folks, and funding special education for the needy, and social security for the disabled adults unable to work, or provide some work opportunities that they can do.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

BTW, you are either badly twisting what I wrote, or purposely adding things to it.

Where did I use the word 'force'? Where did I say I evaluate the person receiving help ?

Do you believe people like this should be helped by governement services?

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Except taxes are collected via force and they aren't voluntary. So yes. You support the forced redistribution of wealth. Where did Christ teach this?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Except taxes are collected via force and they aren't voluntary. So yes. You support the forced redistribution of wealth. Where did Christ teach this?

Using the word force when involving taxes is inflammatory.
Where did Jesus say not to pay taxes?

Mat 22:21
They *said to Him, “Caesar’s.” Then He *said to them, “Then pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.”

 

[ralliann]

Do you believe the government should take from the producers of society to give to those who are poor and needy?

Mrk 7:11 The ideas in this discussion sounds like they could fall into worse than this....
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

So, we give money to the government, for services we might render to our own.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Using the word force when involving taxes is inflammatory.
Where did Jesus say not to pay taxes?

Mat 22:21
They *said to Him, “Caesar’s.” Then He *said to them, “Then pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.”

No it's reality. If someone doesn't pay tax the government will arrest or kill said person. The threat of force is always present.

 

[FreeinChrist]

No it's reality. If someone doesn't pay tax the government will arrest or kill said person. The threat of force is always present.

Please provide the law stating they will kill someone over taxes.
Trump was convicted of fraud for his creative handling of his taxes, not paying what he owed, and was ordered to pay $1.6 million. He wasn't even given jail much less death. His business was ordered to pay a $364 million penalty for years long practices to dupe banks. No jail, no death penalty.

At what point does the dealth penalty come in? I think you are overstating it.

 

[ralliann]

Except taxes are collected via force and they aren't voluntary. So yes. You support the forced redistribution of wealth. Where did Christ teach this?

Taxes...
Mrk 12:14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. {penny: valuing of our money seven pence halfpenny }
16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar’s.
17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.

Taxes ..to the secular government are for their service in criminal law enforcement, courts of criminal justice, military protection.....
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. {ordained: or, ordered }
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

This has been overturned by biden and the left. They are protecting criminals...

 

[FreeinChrist]

Taxes...
14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. {penny: valuing of our money seven pence halfpenny }
16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar’s.
17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.

Taxes ..to the secular government are for their service in law enforcement, courts of justice, military protection.....
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. {ordained: or, ordered }
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

This has been overturned by biden and the left. They are protecting criminals...

Where does Jesus say that taxes are only used for that purposes of law enforcement, courts, and military protection and not for helping the needy and infirm? Is it acceptable in your view for taxes to go road construction? Or maintain city parks? What about utilities? Should government be overseeing utlities so that they are safe? What about providing clean water, and managing the sewer system?

Christianity has really changed in my 70+ years, as for most of that time it was seen as a good thing to help the needy, clothe the naked, and feed the hungry, and aid the disabled. My father's generation, the greatest generation, supported the interstate highway system. That required tax money. We are suppose to be the salt of the earth, right?
Why do so many Christians now seem to view things as "I got mine, you can suffer" as it comes off to me?