Questions about the Spirit

[KevinT]

In the NT, after the resurrection of Jesus, the Holy Spirit seemed to be active. Do you think that the Spirit is as active today?

The reason I am asking, is that Paul, in Romans, seems to describing a situation where in the Spirit was actively guiding the actions of the believers, leading them into truth. And the new believers are not under law because the Holy Spirit can achieve what the law could not. The law said to not murder, but the Spirit shows believers how to go beyond the rigid regulations and to love others as themselves. The problem is that although I have met people who talk about God telling them this or that, I have never met anyone with the power of the Holy Spirit that Paul, Peter, Phillip, Phillip's four (4) unmarried prophesying daughters, and many others had at that time.

Acts 19: While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied. 4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

I was baptized in the name of Christ and joined my church denomination. But I feel like it was much more like what is described as John's baptism. I didn't have the Holy Spirit come onto me, I didn't speak in tongues or prophesy. I pray for God's guidance, but I have never had God to actually speak to me as he did to Ananias to heal Paul, or Philip to speak with the Ethiopian.

The Spirit seems to have acted differently at different times. When Saul was anointed King of Israel, he was dramatically filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied. When Elijah was taken to heaven, Elisha asked for a double dose of his Spirit, and was told that if he saw the departure, then he would be given this. But there is lots and lots of history around these times were such things were NOT happening.

Are we living in a Spirit-quiet time now? Part of me wonders if dramatic part of the Spirit is for an outward show. But what God really desires is what comes afterwards. God wanted king Saul to do His work and was upset when Saul didn't follow instructions. So maybe we shouldn't be looking for flashy signs? I've seen videos of people in churches rolling around on the floor, "filled with the Spirit." Those situations seem to me, see like self-induced hysteria and not the working of God. (But my point is not to criticize anyone because I don't know for sure.)

So I do feel that God gives me guidance. I pray for understanding about various issues, and months later realize that my requests have been answered -- in such a subtle way that I hardly noticed it happening. But, again, it is not dramatic like has happened for some in the Bible.

Can others give me their take on this situation?

KT

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello Kevin (@KevinT), interesting/important topic brother (and one that should make for a good discussion ). Thanks for broaching it

I've gotta run, but I hope to return soon (Dv). I believe that all of your questions are answered in the Bible, so taking another look at certain verses, passages and chapters, like 1 Corinthians 12 & 14, might be a good idea for starters.

God bless you!!

--David

1 Corinthians 12​

27 You are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. ​

28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. ​

29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? ​

30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? ​

.

 

[com7fy8]

Hi, Kevin. Yes, the Holy Spirit is active, today. What matters is if you have trusted in Jesus who is God's own Son and the way to God.

Our Apostle Paul says, "we who first trusted in Christ", in Ephesians 1:12.

And Jesus Himself says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (in John 14:6)

So we trust Him, including by taking His yoke upon us and learning from Jesus >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

The Holy Spirit brings a person to trust and obey Jesus in His yoke of personal union with Him in us. This can be so quiet and soul-resting within us . . . so sharing with Jesus and with one another.

A car in good condition can run very quietly but do many good things.

God can be quiet but He is not silent. Jesus' sheep do hear His voice.

 

[The Liturgist]

In the NT, after the resurrection of Jesus, the Holy Spirit seemed to be active. Do you think that the Spirit is as active today?

Yes. The Holy Spirit indwells all members of the Body of Christ. However, this does not mean that all members can expect to instantly receive all charisms, or that these charisms will equate to what some people expect them to be. I disagree with Pentecostals and Charismatics about the nature of the charisms, but I am not a cessationist, for I have seen these gifts among Orthodox monastics and I have heard reliable reports of them among monastics from Roman Catholicism and from certain elderly Protestant clergy, but they are more subtle and given to those who are in a position to use them to spread the Gospel. However there are other actions of the Holy Spirit that can be routinely experienced, for example, through the Eucharist and through Holy Unction, both of which I have seen provide for healing. Also tomorrow is Theophany, the Baptism of Christ on the Julian Calendar and Coptic Calendar, when the Orthodox Christians in Jerusalem celebrate it (the Armenian Orthodox in Jerusalem also celebrate Christmas tomorrow, since the Armenian church is the only denomination to maintain the ancient practice of celebrating Christmas and the Baptism of our Lord on the date of the latter, rather than nine months from the Annunciation.

was baptized in the name of Christ and joined my church denomination. But I feel like it was much more like what is described as John's baptism. I didn't have the Holy Spirit come onto me, I didn't speak in tongues or prophesy.

The gift of tongues is not what most Charismatics think it is, and there are very few prophets, most of them being monastics who have spent years at prayer.

But if you feel your baptism was inadequate - it is extremely important that you be baptized in a church that professes a belief in the Holy Trinity, in the Incarnation of God the Son in the Person of Jesus Christ and the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit within us, and that the Son and Holy Spirit together reign with the unoriginate Father, ever one God - the doctrine of the Nicene Creed and the ChristianForums Statement of Faith.

Just as faith in Jesus Christ requires a belief in His incarnation and His deity - He is God the Son, the Only Begotten Son and Word of God who became fully human for our Salvation without change, confusion, separation or division between His deity and assumed humanity, and is of one essence with God the Father, with whom He is coeternal and coequal, who begat Him before all ages - as He is begotten, not made, likewise, we must recognize the full deity of the Holy Spirit. The Christian faith is in one God in three divine persons: the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, who are united and consubstantial with each other. We are called to believe in the Trinity, an eternal union of perfect love, as a model for us to emulate in our relationships with our family, our neighbors, the Church, and humanity as a whole - to fulfill the Golden Rule taught by Christ our True God, we become an icon of the Holy Trinity.

And likewise, if we are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and if we are taught and maintain an active faith in God the Holy and Undivided Trinity, this facilitates the potential of receiving the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, although in traditional Sacramental churches like the Orthodox, there is also Insufflation the Sealing of the Holy Spirit through Chrismation which happens at the same time as Baptism. But it seems unlikely that rejecting a living, vibrant faith in the power of God the Holy Spirit and the incarnation of Christ would yield favorable results in terms of a sense of fulfillment resulting from baptism.

By the way, were you also baptized as an infant and then rebaptized, or was the baptism you received for the first time, and was it done using the proper Trinitarian formula contained in Matthew 28:19, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

In the NT, after the resurrection of Jesus, the Holy Spirit seemed to be active. Do you think that the Spirit is as active today?

The Holy Spirit is totally active, our quality of faith is lacking. Since Jesus said quantity didn't matter, its about quality.

 

[The Liturgist]

The Holy Spirit is totally active, our quality of faith is lacking. Since Jesus said quantity didn't matter, its about quality.

This is why it is imperative we believe in the Incarnation, that Jesus Christ is God the Son Incarnate who became man to redeem us for our sins and to glorify our fallen human nature, uniting it with His deity without change, confusion, separation or division, for the glory of His Father, and also that we recognize God the Holy Spirit as a distinct person within the Holy and Undivided Trinity. We worship one God in three Divine Persons who are coequal, coeternal and of one essence, the Son being begotten of the Father before all worlds, and the Holy Spirit proceeding form the Father eternally.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

In the NT, after the resurrection of Jesus, the Holy Spirit seemed to be active. Do you think that the Spirit is as active today?

The reason I am asking, is that Paul, in Romans, seems to describing a situation where in the Spirit was actively guiding the actions of the believers, leading them into truth. And the new believers are not under law because the Holy Spirit can achieve what the law could not. The law said to not murder, but the Spirit shows believers how to go beyond the rigid regulations and to love others as themselves. The problem is that although I have met people who talk about God telling them this or that, I have never met anyone with the power of the Holy Spirit that Paul, Peter, Phillip, Phillip's four (4) unmarried prophesying daughters, and many others had at that time.

Acts 19: While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied. 4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

I was baptized in the name of Christ and joined my church denomination. But I feel like it was much more like what is described as John's baptism. I didn't have the Holy Spirit come onto me, I didn't speak in tongues or prophesy. I pray for God's guidance, but I have never had God to actually speak to me as he did to Ananias to heal Paul, or Philip to speak with the Ethiopian.

The Spirit seems to have acted differently at different times. When Saul was anointed King of Israel, he was dramatically filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied. When Elijah was taken to heaven, Elisha asked for a double dose of his Spirit, and was told that if he saw the departure, then he would be given this. But there is lots and lots of history around these times were such things were NOT happening.

Are we living in a Spirit-quiet time now? Part of me wonders if dramatic part of the Spirit is for an outward show. But what God really desires is what comes afterwards. God wanted king Saul to do His work and was upset when Saul didn't follow instructions. So maybe we shouldn't be looking for flashy signs? I've seen videos of people in churches rolling around on the floor, "filled with the Spirit." Those situations seem to me, see like self-induced hysteria and not the working of God. (But my point is not to criticize anyone because I don't know for sure.)

So I do feel that God gives me guidance. I pray for understanding about various issues, and months later realize that my requests have been answered -- in such a subtle way that I hardly noticed it happening. But, again, it is not dramatic like has happened for some in the Bible.

Can others give me their take on this situation?

KT

You're right in your observation there seems to be quite a contrast to the active, supernatural intervention of the Holy Spirit in e.g. Acts and what is experienced as common Church/Christian life for most believers ... And it's true that Gods Kingdom seems to be expanding mostly and Mission is mostly fruitful when this supernatural interventions are present.

Maybe some things seem crazy or self-induced, but I can tell you first-hand that when people fall upon the floor upon prayer - this is NOT self-induced. Literally two months ago I've witnessed that myself seeing about 250 people around me falling on the floor - completely beyond their control and quite obviously touched by Gods Spirit.

Pray and desire to be filled with Gods Spirit - so that His power can work through you in every deed and conversation you have - God may reveal His will in you, He may guide you to whom to speak, and for whom to pray for.

But this is not something we control or can invoke ourselves - God is sovereign - and we have to live holy and patiently, preparing ourselves to be ready when God intends to use us in special ways.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

This is why it is imperative we believe in the Incarnation, that Jesus Christ is God the Son Incarnate who became man to redeem us for our sins and to glorify our fallen human nature, uniting it with His deity without change, confusion, separation or division, for the glory of His Father, and also that we recognize God the Holy Spirit as a distinct person within the Holy and Undivided Trinity. We worship one God in three Divine Persons who are coequal, coeternal and of one essence, the Son being begotten of the Father before all worlds, and the Holy Spirit proceeding form the Father eternally.

Yes, trinitarian belief and spirituality is key.

 

[Rose_bud]

Hi KT

Yes, the Holy Spirit is very much active today. The manifestation of that activity is not the same at all times. I've found this to be true in my own experience. He works differently at different times and seasons. It's never for show but for His purpose and glory.

Many times, as people are still learning and discovering who He is and why the gifts are being manifested, things may appear chaotic. However, this depends on the believer's level of understanding and their ability to discern what is happening. For someone like myself, who grew up witnessing these manifestations, it wouldn't be strange or chaotic at all. But as a naturally critical person, I've also learned to submit all encounters to the Lord.

During times of consecration, before outreach and then during outreach, the outpouring is usually more dramatic, evidenced as supernatural boldness to share the gospel in hostile territory. And also as a sign of God's kingdom breaking into people's lives. Then there have been times when the manifestations are more sporadic, especially when that season has passed. It would simply be the overwhelming Presence of God, tangible during the reading, teaching and preaching of the Word.

The Holy Spirit is always present with us, guiding, comforting, and empowering. However, our awareness of His presence can vary. Because of our many distractions we have to listen more intently for His whispers, and to trust that He is always working, even when we're not aware of it.

 

[NBB]

I have seen and witnessed miracles and discernment and prophesy, the people who did this would be laughed as phonies by a lot of christians, the sad thing is people who are filled with the Holy spriit are being slandered being made fun of, etc. Or worse saying their are false etc.

 

[The Liturgist]

I have seen and witnessed miracles and discernment and prophesy, the people who did this would be laughed as phonies by a lot of christians, the sad thing is people who are filled with the Holy spriit are being slandered being made fun of, etc. Or worse saying their are false etc.

The wisdom of God is foolishness to the world. If there is one thing anyone with a gift of the Spirit should expect, it is to be mocked or otherwise persecuted, at least by atheists but sadly in some cases by some ostensible Christians.

In Orthodoxy we actually have a class of saint we venerate known as a Fool-for-Christ who is someone who as a form of repentence against worldliness, to align closer to Christ, rejected certain worldly customs and became an intentional fool albeit a pious one, engaging in acts that rebuked sin. It’s a very rare and difficult vocation and there hasn’t been one in quite a while. One fool for Christ of particular note is Blessed Basil, who rebuked the murderous Czar Ivan the Terrible for his horrible tyranny and mass murders, on one occasion putting a piece of raw meat in the hands of the czar, and he managed to survive doing this.

 

[Bob Crowley]

So I do feel that God gives me guidance. I pray for understanding about various issues, and months later realize that my requests have been answered -- in such a subtle way that I hardly noticed it happening. But, again, it is not dramatic like has happened for some in the Bible.

Can others give me their take on this situation?

I'm not pentecostal although I sometimes think about visiting a Catholic Charismatic Church.

The Spirit acts in different ways with different people. I often quote my old Presbyterian pastor, maybe too often. In his case though I think the Spirit gave him two main gifts - wisdom and prophecy. By prophecy in his case I mean the ability to discern future events. I found if he said something it happened sooner or later, although I'm still waiting for some (and he died nearly 33 years ago).

I've heard some people speaking in tongues, but I've never spoken in tongues myself. To be honest I'm not really interested. I'd prefer what might be called "guidance" rather than exotic displays of alleged intoxication of the spirit.

Way back around Christmas 1983, and twice in 1984 I had three "double whammies" when I was still a new Christian. They were like a breath going through me in very strong waves from head to foot, and every time they highlighted a specific phrase that someone was saying (a Bible study leader for the first one and the pastor for the last two). I still remember those phrases 40 years later for that reason. I got such a shock the first time it happened that I nearly fell off the chair. I remember looking around to see what everybody else was making of it but they weren't taking the least bit of notice for the simple reason it wasn't happening to them.

God remained hidden to everybody else. It may have been an angel that caused them, but if so it would have required God's approval to cause such blatant displays of spiritual reality.

The "double whammies" haven't recurred since, and that was 1984 - 40 years.

You would have received the Holy Spirit when you were baptised, but you were probably not aware of it. I think that's the case with most people - I'm a bit cynical myself about people being "slain in the spirit".

You may just have to wait. I don't know how long you've been a Christian, but maybe its early days yet.

There is a link here with "charisms" of the spirit with a Catholic bias.

https://holyspiritfargo.com/charism

 

[David Lamb]

In the NT, after the resurrection of Jesus, the Holy Spirit seemed to be active. Do you think that the Spirit is as active today?

The reason I am asking, is that Paul, in Romans, seems to describing a situation where in the Spirit was actively guiding the actions of the believers, leading them into truth. And the new believers are not under law because the Holy Spirit can achieve what the law could not. The law said to not murder, but the Spirit shows believers how to go beyond the rigid regulations and to love others as themselves. The problem is that although I have met people who talk about God telling them this or that, I have never met anyone with the power of the Holy Spirit that Paul, Peter, Phillip, Phillip's four (4) unmarried prophesying daughters, and many others had at that time.

Acts 19: While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied. 4Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

I was baptized in the name of Christ and joined my church denomination. But I feel like it was much more like what is described as John's baptism. I didn't have the Holy Spirit come onto me, I didn't speak in tongues or prophesy. I pray for God's guidance, but I have never had God to actually speak to me as he did to Ananias to heal Paul, or Philip to speak with the Ethiopian.

The Spirit seems to have acted differently at different times. When Saul was anointed King of Israel, he was dramatically filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied. When Elijah was taken to heaven, Elisha asked for a double dose of his Spirit, and was told that if he saw the departure, then he would be given this. But there is lots and lots of history around these times were such things were NOT happening.

Are we living in a Spirit-quiet time now? Part of me wonders if dramatic part of the Spirit is for an outward show. But what God really desires is what comes afterwards. God wanted king Saul to do His work and was upset when Saul didn't follow instructions. So maybe we shouldn't be looking for flashy signs? I've seen videos of people in churches rolling around on the floor, "filled with the Spirit." Those situations seem to me, see like self-induced hysteria and not the working of God. (But my point is not to criticize anyone because I don't know for sure.)

So I do feel that God gives me guidance. I pray for understanding about various issues, and months later realize that my requests have been answered -- in such a subtle way that I hardly noticed it happening. But, again, it is not dramatic like has happened for some in the Bible.

Can others give me their take on this situation?

KT

I believe that the big difference between the times of the apostles and the present day is that now we have the complete bible, whereas then they had only the Old Testament. The more dramatic happenings we read of in the New Testament were largely to confirm the gospel message preached. For example:

“And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.” (Mr 16:20 NKJV)

Granted, that verse doesn't specify the Holy Spirit, but these verses do:

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ has not accomplished through me, in word and deed, to make the Gentiles obedient — in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.” (Ro 15:18-19 NKJV)

 

[KevinT]

I've gotta run, but I hope to return soon (Dv). I believe that all of your questions are answered in the Bible, so taking another look at certain verses, passages and chapters, like 1 Corinthians 12 & 14, might be a good idea for starters.
...

1 Corinthians 12​

... All are not prophets, are they? ... All are not workers of miracles, are they? ​

This is a good point. I agree that just because I, personally, am not a prophet says nothing about what the Spirit may be enabling in others.

But are there any prophets anywhere in the world today?

Kevin

 

[KevinT]

The Holy Spirit brings a person to trust and obey Jesus in His yoke of personal union with Him in us. This can be so quiet and soul-resting within us . . . so sharing with Jesus and with one another.

A car in good condition can run very quietly but do many good things.

God can be quiet but He is not silent. Jesus' sheep do hear His voice.

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you that God can be quiet but not silent. But would you agree that the Spirit is more quiet now than in the time of the Apostles?

Joel 2:28
“And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

Joel seems to indicate that there will be a time of MORE Spirit, which implies LESS Spirit other times

Best wishes,
Kevin

 

[KevinT]

Yes. The Holy Spirit indwells all members of the Body of Christ. However, this does not mean that all members can expect to instantly receive all charisms, or that these charisms will equate to what some people expect them to be. I disagree with Pentecostals and Charismatics about the nature of the charisms, but I am not a cessationist, for I have seen these gifts among Orthodox monastics and I have heard reliable reports of them among monastics from Roman Catholicism and from certain elderly Protestant clergy, but they are more subtle and given to those who are in a position to use them to spread the Gospel. However there are other actions of the Holy Spirit that can be routinely experienced, for example, through the Eucharist and through Holy Unction, both of which I have seen provide for healing. Also tomorrow is Theophany, the Baptism of Christ on the Julian Calendar and Coptic Calendar, when the Orthodox Christians in Jerusalem celebrate it (the Armenian Orthodox in Jerusalem also celebrate Christmas tomorrow, since the Armenian church is the only denomination to maintain the ancient practice of celebrating Christmas and the Baptism of our Lord on the date of the latter, rather than nine months from the Annunciation.

Thank you for your reply. A lot of terms here that I am unfamiliar with. I'm going to unpack them by looking up definitions. .

• Charisms: an extraordinary power (as of healing) given a Christian by the Holy Spirit for the good of the church. I had only encountered the term "Charisma". Interesting. Ref
• Cessationist: Cessationism is the view that the “miracle gifts” of tongues and healing have ceased—that the end of the apostolic age brought about a cessation of the miracles associated with that age. Most cessationists believe that, while God can and still does perform miracles today, the Holy Spirit no longer uses individuals to perform miraculous signs. Ref
• Eucharist: The Eucharist ..., also called Holy Communion, the Blessed Sacrament or the Lord's Supper, is a Christian rite, considered a sacrament in most churches and an ordinance in others. Ref My church calls this "Communion". I've heard the term "Eucharist", but the meaning had slipped my mind. "Eu" meaning "well" and "charist" from kharis "favor, grace", and the combine Eukharisteo meaning "to thank, to be thankful". ref. I think my somewhat dyslexic eye was seeing "Christ" instead of "charist".
• Holy Unction: a ceremonial in Eastern Orthodox and various Catholic non-Roman churches of anointing with oil the dead or those in imminent danger of dying ref.
• Theophany. A theophany is a manifestation of God in the Bible that is tangible to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period, often, but not always, in human form. ref
• Coptic Calendar: The Coptic calendar, also called the Alexandrian calendar, is a liturgical calendar used by the farming populace in Egypt and used by the Coptic Orthodox and Coptic Catholic churches. It was used for fiscal purposes in Egypt until the adoption of the Gregorian calendar on 11 September 1875
• Armenian Orthodox Church: Armenia was the first nation to convert to Christianity,a decade or so before the Emperor Constantine’s proclamation of Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire. ... The Armenian Church’s ties with the rest of Christianity were severed after its refusal to accept the Council of Chalcedon in AD 451, although contacts with Byzantium were not completely broken. ... Today the Armenian Church is numbered among the “Oriental Orthodox” communities, which include the Coptic, Ethiopian, and Syrian Orthodox churches. Collectively these churches are also often called “Non-Chalcedonian” churches. ref
• Annunciation: The Annunciation ... is, according to the Gospel of Luke, the announcement made by the archangel Gabriel to Mary that she would conceive and bear a son through a virgin birth and become the mother of Jesus Christ, the Christian Messiah and Son of God, marking the Incarnation. ref Appears to be used here as a date reference. The Feast of the Annunciation ... is celebrated on 25 March; however, if 25 March falls either in Holy Week or in Easter Week, the feast is postponed to the Monday after the Second Sunday of Easter. ... Other names for the feast include the Solemnity of the Annunciation, Lady Day, Feast of the Incarnation (Festum incarnationis), and Conceptio Christi (Christ's Conception). ... The Feast of the Annunciation is observed almost universally throughout Christianity, especially within the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Anglicanism, and Lutheranism. It is a major Marian feast, classified as a solemnity in the Catholic Church, a Festival in Lutheranism, and a Principal Feast in the Anglican Communion. In the Eastern Orthodox Church, because it announces the incarnation of Christ, it is counted as one of the eight great feasts of the Lord. ref

But if you feel your baptism was inadequate - it is extremely important that you be baptized in a church that professes a belief in ...

I think you misunderstand. I don't feel that my baptism was inadequate. I am just saying that I didn't start speaking in tongues or prophesying afterwards.

And likewise, if we are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and if we are taught and maintain an active faith in God the Holy and Undivided Trinity, this facilitates the potential of receiving the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit,

I agree

although in traditional Sacramental churches like the Orthodox, there is also Insufflation the Sealing of the Holy Spirit through Chrismation which happens at the same time as Baptism.

More unfamiliar terms:

• Insufflation: Ancient liturgical practice of “blowing in” the Holy Spirit to the mouth of the candidate for baptism by the celebrant. It was preparatory to the baptism itself. The term is from the Latin in and sufflare, “to blow.” It was the counterpart to the “exsufflation,” or exorcism of evil spirits by the action of the celebrant, “blowing” the evil spirits “out of” the candidates. The distinction between “insufflation” and “exsufflation” has not always been preserved. Insufflation was also used to refer to the action of the priest during the blessing of the font, where the ancient rubric read, “let the priest breathe three times into the font in the form of a cross . . . .” Neither insufflation nor exsufflation appears in any English or American Book of Common Prayer. The action is optional in post-Vatican II Roman Catholic liturgies. The biblical roots of the insufflation ceremonies are found in such passages as the second creation story in Genesis which describes God breathing the breath of life into the first human being (Gn 2:7), and the account of Jesus' breathing upon the disciples and imparting to them the Holy Spirit (Jn 20:22). The term can also be used to describe these events. ref
• Chrismation: Chrismation consists of the sacrament or mystery in the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Catholic churches, as well as in the Assyrian Church of the East initiation rites. The sacrament is more commonly known in the West as confirmation, .... The term chrismation comes about because it involves anointing the recipient of the sacrament with chrism (holy oil), which according to eastern Christian belief, the Apostles sanctified and introduced for all priests to use as a replacement for the laying on of hands by the Apostles. Chrism consists of a "mixture of 40 sweet-smelling substances and pure olive oil" sanctified by a bishop with some older chrism added in, in the belief that some trace of the initial chrism sanctified by the Apostles remains therein. ref

By the way, were you also baptized as an infant and then rebaptized, or was the baptism you received for the first time, and was it done using the proper Trinitarian formula contained in Matthew 28:19, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

I was baptized by submersion in water when I was in college, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Thank you again for your detailed reply.

Best wishes
Kevin

 

[KevinT]

The Holy Spirit is totally active, our quality of faith is lacking. Since Jesus said quantity didn't matter, its about quality.

But is the Spirit active in the same way? Where are the miraculous healings like those performed by Christ's disciples?

To be transparent, I am not trying to insinuate that the Spirit is not active, I am just trying to emphasize that the spiritual environment today seems different from during the time when Paul wrote Romans.

Best wishes
Kevin

 

[KevinT]

You're right in your observation there seems to be quite a contrast to the active, supernatural intervention of the Holy Spirit in e.g. Acts and what is experienced as common Church/Christian life for most believers ... And it's true that Gods Kingdom seems to be expanding mostly and Mission is mostly fruitful when this supernatural interventions are present.

I agree.

Maybe some things seem crazy or self-induced, but I can tell you first-hand that when people fall upon the floor upon prayer - this is NOT self-induced. Literally two months ago I've witnessed that myself seeing about 250 people around me falling on the floor - completely beyond their control and quite obviously touched by Gods Spirit.

Can you tell me more about this? What was the context? How long did this last? What other signs where there? What happened afterwards?

Pray and desire to be filled with Gods Spirit - so that His power can work through you in every deed and conversation you have - God may reveal His will in you, He may guide you to whom to speak, and for whom to pray for.

But this is not something we control or can invoke ourselves - God is sovereign - and we have to live holy and patiently, preparing ourselves to be ready when God intends to use us in special ways.

I agree. Thank you so much for your reply.

Kevin

 

[KevinT]

The Liturgist said:
This is why it is imperative we believe in the Incarnation, that Jesus Christ is God the Son Incarnate who became man to redeem us for our sins and to glorify our fallen human nature, uniting it with His deity without change, confusion, separation or division, for the glory of His Father, and also that we recognize God the Holy Spirit as a distinct person within the Holy and Undivided Trinity. We worship one God in three Divine Persons who are coequal, coeternal and of one essence, the Son being begotten of the Father before all worlds, and the Holy Spirit proceeding form the Father eternally.

Gregory Thompson said:
Yes, trinitarian belief and spirituality is key.

I agree that these spiritual concepts are important. But does this apply to my original post about the activity level of the Holy Spirit?

Kevin

 

[The Liturgist]

I agree that these spiritual concepts are important. But does this apply to my original post about the activity level of the Holy Spirit?

Kevin

Yes because if one doesn’t have an actively Incarnational and Trinitarian faith one cannot expect the indwelling God of the Holy Spirit. However, insofar as God desires the salvation of all the uncreated Grace of God the Holy Spirit is still radiating towards one, seeking to convict one of sin and draw one in towards a Trinitarian baptism and participation in a Graceful Trinitarian and Incarnational life in the Christian Church, but in Orthodoxy where we believe in free will, we believe one can refuse the Holy Spirit’s suggestion and continue living in the world and sadly many people do that. We are not Pelagianists; we believe that salvation is only possible through divine Grace.

In the Orthodox Church I’ve experienced, and I know others who have experienced, mysteries of the Holy Spirit, and its very beautiful. I also benefitted from this beforehand, although I did not see quite the same level as what I have seen, and in particular some of the more dramatic things i’ve only seen in an Orthodox context, but I do believe that the church in which I was baptized was at the time a valid church and that I partook of valid sacraments, but it is no longer due to the adoption of a theology which actively embraces various forms of sexual immorality.