Time Travel Ethics: Preventing Oppenheimer's Parents from Meeting Up = Preventing Nuclear Proliferation

[AlexB23]

Hello folks. In this hypothetical scenario, you are tasked with preventing the nuclear physicist Robert Oppenheimer's father Julius Oppenheimer from meeting his future wife Ella Friedman, preventing the birth of Robert Oppenheimer, and therefore, preventing the invention and future proliferation of the nuclear bomb, a form of Armageddon technology. Would you prevent Oppie's dad from hooking up with Oppie's mother to save the world from the threat of Russian and North Korean nukes, and delay the End Times by a few centuries?

 

[BCP1928]

Hello folks. In this hypothetical scenario, you are tasked with preventing the nuclear physicist Robert Oppenheimer's father Julius Oppenheimer from meeting his future wife Ella Friedman, preventing the birth of Robert Oppenheimer, and therefore, preventing the invention and future proliferation of the nuclear bomb, a form of Armageddon technology. Would you prevent Oppie's dad from hooking up with Oppie's mother to save the world from the threat of Russian and North Korean nukes, and delay the End Times by a few centuries?

Not worth the trouble. Oppenheimer was not solely responsible for the creation of the atomic bomb, nor were he and his team the only ones working on it. The Germans and the Japanese were close on his heels and might have come in first without Oppenheimer.

 

[AlexB23]

Not worth the trouble. Oppenheimer was not solely responsible for the creation of the atomic bomb, nor were he and his team the only ones working on it. The Germans and the Japanese were close on his heels and might have come in first without Oppenheimer.

That is true as well. If we could prevent the other countries from inventing nuclear bombs, then what. Would it be ethical to impact the history of civilization by preventing the invention of nukes, or would it lead to an even worse timeline compared to today?

Time travel ethics is fascinating stuff.

 

[Arcangl86]

Honestly I don't think it is possible to prevent the creation of nuclear weaponry, though I did see a fascinating video on how we could have potentially had a test ban treaty, which would have prevented the arms race, if we had managed to discover a particular mathematical formula in time.

 

[Piers Plowman]

Honestly I don't think it is possible to prevent the creation of nuclear weaponry, though I did see a fascinating video on how we could have potentially had a test ban treaty, which would have prevented the arms race, if we had managed to discover a particular mathematical formula in time.

...Well? What was the formula?? I'm on the edge of my seat!

 

[Arcangl86]

...Well? What was the formula?? I'm on the edge of my seat!

I"ll post the video, but it's called the Fast Fourier Transform. The short version is that the main thing that stopped the signing of a total test ban treaty was the inability to verify it for underground tests. There are ways to detect the effects of an underground nuclear explosion, but it requires really time-consuming math. The FFT is a way to do those complications a lot quicker, and actually has become the basis for modern signal processing in general. The most interesting part is that somebody had discovered it in the 1800s and it had gotten lost until after it was rediscovered.

But to go back to the OP topic, this is actually the kind of time travel I would do. Either way, it's a can of worms, but a single discrete change instead of the literally unlimited changes that a single missing person can bring seems safer.

 

[Desk trauma]

Hello folks. In this hypothetical scenario, you are tasked with preventing the nuclear physicist Robert Oppenheimer's father Julius Oppenheimer from meeting his future wife Ella Friedman, preventing the birth of Robert Oppenheimer, and therefore, preventing the invention and future proliferation of the nuclear bomb, a form of Armageddon technology. Would you prevent Oppie's dad from hooking up with Oppie's mother to save the world from the threat of Russian and North Korean nukes, and delay the End Times by a few centuries?

Presuming that Oppenheimer not existing would cause the failure of the manhattan project, a presumption I don’t agree with but for the sake of the hypothetical let’s go with it, how would that improve things? We would have seen much greater carnage in Japan and nuclear weapons are delayed rather than stopped.

 

[AlexB23]

Presuming that Oppenheimer not existing would cause the failure of the manhattan project, a presumption I don’t agree with but for the sake of the hypothetical let’s go with it, how would that improve things? We would have seen much greater carnage in Japan and nuclear weapons are delayed rather than stopped.

Yeah, I had this discussion with my boss at work today (as in if we could prevent the Germans and Americans from inventing the nuke), as he likes science as well, and I did think the same thing. Also, if the nukes were prevented, scientists would eventually discover nuclear weapons, if not in the 1940s, maybe decades or centuries down the line. If the war in Japan went on for a few years longer, more lives would be lost. By how much, we would never know. This is a form of trolley problem. Keep the train on the same track, and harm 10 people. Turn the switch to the other track, and harm 5 people. One would logically switch the train to the track with less people. So, by the nukes being invented, it could have saved lives. At the same time, the potential for nukes to wipe us all out in the 21st century is nonzero probability.

We do not want to live in a Man in the High Castle type world, so it is probably best that we do not mess with the timeline:

The Man in the High Castle (TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hello folks. In this hypothetical scenario, you are tasked with preventing the nuclear physicist Robert Oppenheimer's father Julius Oppenheimer from meeting his future wife Ella Friedman, preventing the birth of Robert Oppenheimer, and therefore, preventing the invention and future proliferation of the nuclear bomb, a form of Armageddon technology. Would you prevent Oppie's dad from hooking up with Oppie's mother to save the world from the threat of Russian and North Korean nukes, and delay the End Times by a few centuries?

If I was allowed to travel back in time, all the diseases I've experienced would be unleashed on the world.

In a world without adequate cures.

So I'd probably stop more than the invention of the atom bomb.

 

[BPPLEE]

That is true as well. If we could prevent the other countries from inventing nuclear bombs, then what. Would it be ethical to impact the history of civilization by preventing the invention of nukes, or would it lead to an even worse timeline compared to today?

Time travel ethics is fascinating stuff.

Someone else would figure it out

 

[AlexB23]

If I was allowed to travel back in time, all the diseases I've experienced would be unleashed on the world.

In a world without adequate cures.

So I'd probably stop more than the invention of the atom bomb.

That is true, which would be a bad idea. Imagine if COVID spread in the early 20th century, it would be like the Spanish flu of 1918. Good song by the way, I have never heard of it before. Gonna load it into my computer.

 

[AlexB23]

Someone else would figure it out

Yeah, someone else would figure it out, probably a few decades later.

 

[Nithavela]

Someone else would have led the project. Perhaps the bomb would have been delayed a bit, but prevented from development.

 

[AlexB23]

Someone else would have led the project. Perhaps the bomb would have been delayed a bit, but prevented from development.

So, you are saying that this event in history could be immutable, or inevitable?

 

[Nithavela]

So, you are saying that this event in history could be immutable, or inevitable?

No, not immutable. But it would take a lot more than removing one project director from the time stream to prevent.

 

[Desk trauma]

. If the war in Japan went on for a few years longer, more lives would be lost. By how much, we would never know.

Years more would include the continued fire bombing campaign destroying the remaining cities followed by either an invasion of the home islands or blockade starving them out. Even the most conservative estimates of casualties would far eclipse the deaths from the atomic bombings.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hello folks. In this hypothetical scenario, you are tasked with preventing the nuclear physicist Robert Oppenheimer's father Julius Oppenheimer from meeting his future wife Ella Friedman, preventing the birth of Robert Oppenheimer, and therefore, preventing the invention and future proliferation of the nuclear bomb, a form of Armageddon technology. Would you prevent Oppie's dad from hooking up with Oppie's mother to save the world from the threat of Russian and North Korean nukes, and delay the End Times by a few centuries?

Honestly, Alex, I'm only interesting in either historical or real life scenarios. Hypotheticals make me sick to the stomach when I see them used.

 

[Hans Blaster]

So, you are saying that this event in history could be immutable, or inevitable?

Oppenheimer wasn't the person who realized a chain reaction could be uncontrolled and explosive. He wasn't the one who lobbied government officials to have the bomb built. He didn't design any of the critical components. He was recruited to run the project as is clear in any history of the Manhattan project, biography of Oppenheimer, or even that biographical movie.

 

[AlexB23]

Years more would include the continued fire bombing campaign destroying the remaining cities followed by either an invasion of the home islands or blockade starving them out. Even the most conservative estimates of casualties would far eclipse the deaths from the atomic bombings.

Yeah, I have heard this from somewhere, but I do not remember where.

 

[AlexB23]

No, not immutable. But it would take a lot more than removing one project director from the time stream to prevent.

Yeah, it would take an entire purge from the time stream to prevent nukes from happening. In other words, it is best not to meddle with time.