When did God Create the Universe?

[Jonaitis]

But the day and night mentioned in Genesis 1 is specific to the earth.

”In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The darkness is in reference to the absence of light on the surface of the waters on the earth. Anytime your talking about night and day it’s in reference to a planet, what other planet would Genesis 1 possibly be referring to?

Exactly, Genesis 1 must, therefore, refer to a phenomenological view of Earth's creation from a ground perspective, rather than a literal view of the creation of the Universe as a whole.

 

[AV1611VET]

In the beginning (that's time) God created the heavens( space) and the earth(matter). Einstein discovered it and didn't like it lol

That's a good point!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, I will have to agree and disagree with you, brother. As I said earlier, mass influences space-time, therefore, the stronger the gravitational field on a planet, the more slowly time will pass. For example, let's say we placed one timer on Earth, and another timer on a planet the size of the Sun. While the experience of 60 seconds will be the same to us on both planes, when compared together, the timer on Earth will have passed much faster than the timer on the planet the size of the Sun.

I don’t see how this is accurate at all. Gravity has nothing to do with time. Time doesn’t speed up when astronauts are in space where there’s less gravity. When they come back down to earth they are not traveling backwards in time. Clocks aboard the space shuttle aren’t showing the wrong time when they land back on the earth.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Exactly, Genesis 1 must, therefore, refer to a phenomenological view of Earth's creation from a ground perspective, rather than a literal view of the creation of the Universe as a whole.

Right, so the sun and the moon and the stars were created on the fourth earth day.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Or, those other galaxies are part of a grander plan that we are only a small participant of. Who knows what God is doing in the vast reaches of space? We are certainly not the only ones He has in view.

Perhaps, I really couldn’t say either way.

 

[Jonaitis]

I don’t see how this is accurate at all. Gravity has nothing to do with time. Time doesn’t speed up when astronauts are in space where there’s less gravity. When they come back down to earth they are not traveling backwards in time. Clocks aboard the space shuttle aren’t showing the wrong time when they land back on the earth.

Gravity is the warping of space-time around a mass...it is very much connected to time...what do you think gravity is?

We have tested this many times in various ways conducting such experiments with the International Space Station. Gravity is the result of space-time being influenced by mass...

 

[Jonaitis]

Perhaps, I really couldn’t say either way.

This is why we should keep an open mind! Our species on this planet holds to very narrow views about this mysterious place we call the Universe, and God has revealed only so much because of our limited understanding.

 

[Jonaitis]

Right, so the sun and the moon and the stars were created on the fourth earth day.

Or, they were created in the perspective of an Earth day, and really it was much much longer?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Gravity is the warping of space-time around a mass...it is very much connected to time...what do you think gravity is?

We have tested this many times in various ways conducting such experiments with the International Space Station. Gravity is the result of space-time being influenced by mass...

This only has to do with what appears to happen from a different perspective. It’s like saying heat distortions are bending spacetime because of the visual effect they produce. Time is not actually affected.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Gravity is the warping of space-time around a mass...it is very much connected to time...what do you think gravity is?

We have tested this many times in various ways conducting such experiments with the International Space Station. Gravity is the result of space-time being influenced by mass...

Gravity is the attraction of all objects that have mass. What your referring to is the sphere of influence which is just gravity going out in all directions from the body of mass. This has nothing to do with time.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Gravity is the warping of space-time around a mass...it is very much connected to time...what do you think gravity is?

We have tested this many times in various ways conducting such experiments with the International Space Station. Gravity is the result of space-time being influenced by mass...

Spacetime comes into play when we’re trying to calculate the actual position of a star for instance because it’s so far away and takes so long for the light to reach us it causes the appearance of being in a place that it isn’t actually at. This is how spacetime comes into play because you not only need x y and z coordinates but also a time coordinate to get the objects actually position. Time is not being altered it just takes a very long time for the light to get here so you’re actually looking at where it was in the past. This does not mean that the star is in the past it’s just a visual illusion.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is why we should keep an open mind! Our species on this planet holds to very narrow views about this mysterious place we call the Universe, and God has revealed only so much because of our limited understanding.

Your arguing from a vacuum of information and evidence. Your saying that I should refrain from the literal translation of the Bible because somewhere else God MIGHT HAVE created other people which is still irrelevant to the scriptures that He gave to us about the creation of this earth. So let the people on Alpha Centauri worry about their own Bible because my Bible pertains to this particular planet.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Or, they were created in the perspective of an Earth day, and really it was much much longer?

Ok so 500,000 year days is what you’re suggesting now? The plants are already created on day 3.

 

[RandyPNW]

Well you still have the problem with the genealogies dating the earth to just over 6,000 years between the first man and Jesus. I don’t see the 6 day creation as being obviously representative of a sequence of events since it is within God’s power to accomplish the task of creation in 6 days. I see that interpretation as a personal choice not something that is mandated.

The earth and the universe can be billions of years old, animals millions of years old, and man only less than 10K years old. Genealogies may or may not yield exact time sequences--don't know.

But I do believe that Man is relatively new on this planet and in the universe. And I do believe the Bible is accurate, as far as we have understood it. But I certainly don't claim to have it all down to a science.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I do know the answer to this question. The universe was created "in the beginning". The beginning, as the word implies, is definitely before "the end". Like a book, there is a beginning, and, in due time, an end.

 

[The Liturgist]

Hi everyone, I have been pondering this, but I am not sure if this is scriptural and legit or not. Let me know what you think! My question is this- when did God create the universe? I think the answer is- never! God created time! The bible does say that God created the heavens and the earth in 7 days and I believe that, but when were the 7 days? Space and time are connected, there is space-time and the space-time continuum. I believe the "heavens" described in the bible are the universe. What do you think of this?

God the Father, through his Son the Logos, who we know as our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, created time, you are correct, and is outside of time. To say otherwise is contrary to John 1:1-3.

So this is a valid insight on your part.

From our perspective living inside the Universe however, His creation has a definite beginning. And from what we can tell through astronomical observations, this apparently happened in the neighborhood of 13-14 billion years ago.

But since God is omnipotent and omniscient, he could perhaps have simply initiated an already functioning universe over a seven day period, and it would be impossible to tell the difference. Or done several other things that would result in the universe appearing to be of a different age than it actually is. Thus Young Earth Creationism and science needn’t be opposed, if one truly believes that God is all-powerful and all-knowing.

Of course, what the seven day creation account in Genesis is, first and foremost, is an account of how the same Only Begotten Son and Word of God recreated the universe and mankind in particular on the sixth day, on the Cross, before resting in the tomb on the seventh day and rising from the dead in glory on the First Day of the New Creation, in which He has trampled down death by death. Let there be light!

 

[The Liturgist]

Ex 20 says the seven days of Gen 1-2:4 are the same time as the 7 days at Sinai

Gen 2:2-4
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

Ex 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Same author, same topic, same audience, and each day is one "evening and morning" as stated in Genesis 1.

Of course, the seven days in the Law were really there as a prophecy of Holy Week and the Passion and Resurrection of Christ our God. It is no coincidence he was crucified on the sixth day, rested in a tomb on the seventh, and rose from the dead in glory on the First Day of the New Creation.

Christ our True God says as much when He opens the Old Testament in the final chapter of the Gospel According to Luke, that the books of the Law and the Prophets are about Him. He then becomes known to the eleven remaining faithful disciples in the Breaking of Bread, that is to say, the Eucharist, and disappears.

 

[BobRyan]

Of course, the seven days in the Law were really there

Indeed they were really there - and for 40 years on exactly the 7th day -- no manna fell. So anyone not taking it literally would go hungry one day a week if they simply ignored all the details and imagined it referred to "something else".

I guess we all knew that.

God set the hard wired relationship between Gen 2:2-3 and Ex 20:11 in "legal code" -- and made it very obvious in Ex 16 that this was an incredibly literal fact in God's Word

Christ our True God says as much when He opens the Old Testament in the final chapter

Indeed Christ - the second person of the God head - God the son , makes it clear in Heb 8 that it is Christ speaking at Sinai.

===================

In summary - if we ignore all the Word of God speaking about creation and the 7 day week of creation in Ex 20:8-11, and Gen 1-2:4 we "could" get to "some other topic " that has nothing to do with this thread topic - by spiritualizing it all away.

Maybe we could imagine God's Word said "for six days Jesus was on the cross" or "for 7 days Jesus was in the grave" or "for 6 days Jesus was resurrecting from the dead" or "for 7 days Jesus was resurrecting"...

But most of us can easily see that those sorts of creative spiritualizing --- simply don't work.

What works is the actual Word of God - and it helps in this case - because it is on the topic of this thread

Ex 20 says the seven days of Gen 1-2:4 are the same time as the 7 days at Sinai

Gen 2:2-4
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

Ex 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

And Ex 16 points out that anyone in Israel who failed to understand this simple easy to understand fact, would live the consequence of having no food , for one day each week until they finally came around.

 

[BobRyan]

Young Earth Creationism and science needn’t be opposed,

Particularly since it is in the actual Bible.

Ex 20 says the seven days of Gen 1-2:4 are the same time as the 7 days at Sinai

Gen 2:2-4
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

Ex 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Same author, same topic, same audience, and each day is one "evening and morning" as stated in Genesis 1.

exegesis being what it is.

Of course, what the seven day creation account in Genesis is, first and foremost, is an account of how the same Only Begotten Son and Word of God recreated

There is no "recreated" in Gen 1 or 2... as we all know.

the universe and mankind in particular on the sixth day

There is no recreated in Gen 1 or 2 and no "recreated" on the day Christ was crucified in the the Gospel accounts.

And there is no "Christ on the cross for six days" and there is no "Christ on the cross for 7 days" in the Gospels either - as we all know.

, on the Cross, before resting in the tomb on the seventh day and rising from the dead in glory on the First Day

True - but there is nothing that is "seven days" about that , nor is it in the Commandment nor is it in Creation week - so then it is not actually the topic of this thread when you think about it.

 

[BobRyan]

I do know the answer to this question. The universe was created "in the beginning". The beginning, as the word implies, is definitely before "the end". Like a book, there is a beginning, and, in due time, an end.

In the beginning God created the universe (no days or time given for that historic event) but then follows the 7 days for this planet, all life on it, and our solar system