The Fall of the West (It's Happening Now)

[stevil]

Perhaps the real problem lies with those who think they have rights, not because they represent a group but simply because they are a minority.

or perhaps, simply because they are a human being that deserves basic human rights, and equality.

 

[timothyu]

or perhaps, simply because they are a human being that deserves basic human rights, and equality.

Certainly providing, like anyone else, they act responsibly

 

[Ophiolite]

Gibbon's argument was that Christianity made the Roman Empire weak. Trying to remember why, if it was Christian principles such as compassion, or something else. Gibbon didn't seem to think too highly of Christians.

If I remember correctly I'm not sure Gibbon thought all that highly of anybody, but it's more than half a century since I read Decline and Fall so my recollection may be faulty.

 

[Ophiolite]

No offense but you have not demonstrated that you understand what I have written.

I believe I understood it only too well, but good manners and forum rules prohibit me from responding to any specific points.

 

[stevil]

Certainly providing, like anyone else, they act responsibly

Within the law rather than some vague idea of "responsibly"

 

[timothyu]

Within the law rather than some vague idea of "responsibly"

The way good parents used to raise their kids.

 

[alertandawake]

It a matter of time before Western Civilisation completely and absolutely collapses to the point it cannot be repaired. It is too far gone. We at a point today that if Person A asks Person B this question - "Can men have babies?" if Person B answers No, Person A will most likely be offended. We seeing now that certain adults now cannot even answer when asked "What is a woman?"

You know what is interesting, look at the family entertainment shows back in the 1980s and compare them to now, big difference.

 

[Bradskii]

It a matter of time before Western Civilisation completely and absolutely collapses to the point it cannot be repaired. It is too far gone. We at a point today that if Person A asks Person B this question - "Can men have babies?" if Person B answers No, Person A will most likely be offended. We seeing now that certain adults now cannot even answer when asked "What is a woman?"

Who is this idiot, Person A? Is he the one that also doesn't know what a woman is? Are you are hanging around with these people and getting your information from them?

Maaate. Lose them immediately. Your IQ will drop with every hour you spend with these idiots. Stick around here for a while and we'll help you with anything you don't understand.

And in case you were still confused, a biological man with all his biological bits can't have a baby. And a woman is someone with all the womanly bits such as uterus, the bit where you access the uterus (you know) and XX chromosomes (there are relatively rare medical conditions that mean that's not exactly 100% valid in all cases, but you don't want to know about those).

 

[alertandawake]

Who is this idiot, Person A? Is he the one that also doesn't know what a woman is? Are you are hanging around with these people and getting your information from them?

Maaate. Lose them immediately. Your IQ will drop with every hour you spend with these idiots. Stick around here for a while and we'll help you with anything you don't understand.

And in case you were still confused, a biological man with all his biological bits can't have a baby. And a woman is someone with all the womanly bits such as uterus, the bit where you access the uterus (you know) and XX chromosomes (there are relatively rare medical conditions that mean that's not exactly 100% valid in all cases, but you don't want to know about those).

I am not sure what your post above is in relation to. I know the difference between male and female. I was merely making a point of how western society has downgraded to the point that people are coming out of institutions that have no idea how to answer simple questions.

Incredible, I give an example to illustrate how society is collapsing, and your post above is implying I hang around with people that don't know the difference between a man an a woman? By what manner of reasoning did you use to come to that conclusion? I want you to explain to me how you came to that conclusion, when the only thing I did was just make an example to illustrate how much Western Society has fallen.

There was a incident that involved the NZ Prime minister (and you can google this) he was asked "What is a woman?" Just stood there unable to give a proper answer.

 

[stevil]

It a matter of time before Western Civilisation completely and absolutely collapses to the point it cannot be repaired. It is too far gone. We at a point today that if Person A asks Person B this question - "Can men have babies?" if Person B answers No, Person A will most likely be offended. We seeing now that certain adults now cannot even answer when asked "What is a woman?"

This is a really silly argument.
If my male neighbor decides to wear a dress and put on makeup, this isn't going to cause the fall of western civilisation.

If my male neighbor politely asks me to use she, her pronouns when referring to her, this isn't going to cause the fall of western civilisation.

If my male (now to be referred to as she/her) has hormone treatment and has transgender surgery, again there will be no fall of western civilisation.

But maybe Tucker will say western civilisation is falling. Oh well.

 

[Bradskii]

I am not sure what your post above is in relation to. I know the difference between male and female. I was merely making a point of how western society has downgraded to the point that people are coming out of institutions that have no idea how to answer simple questions.

It's a relatively simple task to point to fools and then to suggest that the world is a foolish place.

I quite doubt that it's the case that you foster friendships with those who you think haven't a grasp on biological facts or twist them to some obscure ends. Put my suggestion that you might down to whimsy.

But there is a serious point to be made in that it appears to be obvious that men like ourselves can give birth and risible that someone would ask. They either are monstrously ignorant or they have an agenda other than gaining knowledge. Likewise with the loaded question to Hipkins. And I say loaded because the person asking it didn't nominate if he was talking about biological sex or gender. Which Hipkins noted. And then went on to explain that gender isn't fixed so there isn't a single answer to said question. If the person asked what he thought the definition was of a biological woman, then if it had been me I would have called the guy an idiot for asking and mention the same facts as I did in my earlier post. And suggest that he get up to speed on human biology.

Now you might spend some time looking for an example of someone saying that in some ways a man can actually give birth. In which case we can examine that and see exactly what the person means. And we can either agree that they are stretching the definition of man past that which any reasonable person would accept. Or that they're an idiot.

Neither will suggest the end of Western civilisation.

 

[alertandawake]

The thing is, with what we are seeing today, it is falling this is the problem. It is the very foundation that is crumbling this is the issue.

Not long ago, I read about a Catholic Couple in Indiana who had their child removed from them, because they did not use the child's preferred pronoun? On the article I read, what I found worrying was the child was placed in a 'gender affirming' home. Is this for real?

What is going on?

I don't know everything, and I certainly don't have answers for everything, but on such a scale that seems to be increasing exponentially with this "gender identity" concept, my instincts tell me there has to be external factors involved.

Is it something we breathing? Something we consuming? Or is it a combination of factors that make a individual susceptible to some kind of brainwashing?

 

[Matt5]

This is a really silly argument.
If my male neighbor decides to wear a dress and put on makeup, this isn't going to cause the fall of western civilisation.

If my male neighbor politely asks me to use she, her pronouns when referring to her, this isn't going to cause the fall of western civilisation.

If my male (now to be referred to as she/her) has hormone treatment and has transgender surgery, again there will be no fall of western civilisation.

But maybe Tucker will say western civilisation is falling. Oh well.

"If my male neighbor decides to wear a dress and put on makeup, this isn't going to cause the fall of western civilisation."

Sigh. Yes it will. Because it is the canary in the coal mine. The real problem is the coal mine.

After 75+ years of relative stability, the West has gone insane. The real dangerous part is that it has fallen asleep while its enemies prepare for war. Currently, WW3 sits at its doorstep.

Given the numbers of trans, they aren't bringing down anything. But the trans represent one part of the whole western nuttiness agenda. That includes being sound asleep to the dangers that threaten it. We saw this play out on 9/11 and with COVID-19. What comes next will be worse.

But we have nukes. Yes, but the missiles are old and crappy, and we don't have nearly enough. And we don't have fallout shelters for everyone. Meanwhile, Russia has upgraded most of its nukes, and built a lot of new fallout shelters.

 

[Bradskii]

The thing is, with what we are seeing today, it is falling this is the problem. It is the very foundation that is crumbling this is the issue.

Not long ago, I read about a Catholic Couple in Indiana who had their child removed from them, because they did not use the child's preferred pronoun?

I'm glad you asked if that happened. No, it wasn't because of that. From here: Woman arrested after running red light, causing fatal crash on Taylor Boulevard, Louisville police say

'The Indiana Attorney General's Office is required to defend the state, and wrote in Supreme Court filings that Child Protective Services removed the child to get medical treatment for an eating disorder that was, in part, rooted in their parents' beliefs.

A filing from the AG's Office said the eating disorder was "Fueled in part by (the) child's self-isolation from the parents and that behavior was likely to reoccur if (the) child was placed back in the home."

The case has been through the state courts, and every court agreed the state did nothing wrong.

When asked for comment, Attorney General Todd Rokita's office declined, but sent the below statement:

"We always protect parental rights and religious liberty. Neither we nor the Indiana courts believe that the State can remove a child because of a parent’s religious beliefs, views about gender identity, or anything of the sort. Our office is fulfilling our statutory duty to defend this state agency and to keep an oath I swore when I took office. As the record shows, this state agency acted not on the use of pronouns but because of the child’s extreme eating disorder.

Glad I could confirm that western civilisation is not crumbling. You're welcome.

 

[timothyu]

Is it something we breathing? Something we consuming? Or is it a combination of factors that make a individual susceptible to some kind of brainwashing?

Try internet

 

[partinobodycular]

If my male neighbor decides to wear a dress and put on makeup, this isn't going to cause the fall of western civilisation.

Sigh. Yes it will. Because it is the canary in the coal mine. The real problem is the coal mine.

This is where it helps to be old. Because then you have the benefit of having seen these ebbs and flows of public sentiment before. Having been a stock trader for decades it's very analogous to how the stock market works. First troubling signs begin to appear in the economy. Nothing to panic about, but wiser funds start to get a bit more cautious... perhaps the market is a tad overstretched. This is just enough to get the market to flatten out and perhaps drop a bit. Then pundits and doomsayers begin to warn us about everything that's about to go wrong. And the caution begins to spread, therewith the doomsayer's warnings grow louder and louder, and the market may drop even more.

At this point one of two things will happen, over time the ominous warnings will prove to be much ado about nothing, and the market will resume its march to record highs, or the warning signs will get worse and worse, panic will begin to set in, and the Fed will assure us that it has everything under control... that is until it doesn't. At which point Bear Stearns will go bankrupt, the entire market will panic, and the ma and pa investor at home will be completely distraught about how their 401k just lost 30% of its value in a matter of weeks. This leads to people cutting back on spending. Which leads to companies pulling back on guidance, which leads to the final drop in the market, when everyone realizes that what they had hoped would be the bottom... isn't. But it's this last watershed moment that leads to the "Haines Bottom", when everybody has sold everything that they could... panic is at its most extreme, and there's nowhere left to go but up. But miraculously, civilization doesn't end, and the world continues as it always has, towards a brighter tomorrow.

This type of scenario is true in many aspects of society. It begins with people's legitimate concerns. Then grows as the pundits and naysayers start to weigh in on the inevitable and dire consequences about to befall us, all seemingly fulfilled by a mass shooting here, a judicial ruling there, and wokeism all over the place. Everywhere you look, the ominous predictions seem to be coming true. So the panic increases, and the voices of gloom and doom grow louder and louder.

Once again, one of two things will happen. Either it'll turn out that this was much ado about nothing, or after much hand waving and gesticulating about how western civilization is about to collapse, society will get a reset. We'll realize that things aren't going to get worse, and worse, and worse. It was just one of those moments in the history of societies when things change for the better... in spite of ourselves.

So no, western civilization isn't about to collapse, we're just learning to deal with a whole new paradigm of societal interaction, expression, and acceptance. We're dealing with technology and freedom that our forefathers never dreamed of. Yes, there are gonna be rules and limits that we have to figure out, but they're not civilization killers... they're civilization builders, if we can see our way clear to make them so.

If I can listen to your concerns and you can listen to mine then that's all we need. The yelling... as distracting and concerning as it is, is as Corinthians says, just a clanging cymbal. So don't panic, society isn't collapsing, it's just working things out in a way that isn't all that pretty.

Personally, I think that the future's so bright... that I gotta wear shades.

 

[timothyu]

Personally, I think that the future's so bright... that I gotta wear shades.

Hope they aren't rose tinted

 

[stevil]

But we have nukes. Yes, but the missiles are old and crappy, and we don't have nearly enough. And we don't have fallout shelters for everyone. Meanwhile, Russia has upgraded most of its nukes, and built a lot of new fallout shelters.

If the world gets nuked, fallout shelters won't help.
Worry about nukes, not men in dresses.

 

[Bradskii]

"If my male neighbor decides to wear a dress and put on makeup, this isn't going to cause the fall of western civilisation."

Sigh. Yes it will. Because it is the canary in the coal mine. The real problem is the coal mine.

After 75+ years of relative stability, the West has gone insane. The real dangerous part is that it has fallen asleep while its enemies prepare for war. Currently, WW3 sits at its doorstep.

Given the numbers of trans, they aren't bringing down anything. But the trans represent one part of the whole western nuttiness agenda. That includes being sound asleep to the dangers that threaten it. We saw this play out on 9/11 and with COVID-19. What comes next will be worse.

But we have nukes. Yes, but the missiles are old and crappy, and we don't have nearly enough. And we don't have fallout shelters for everyone. Meanwhile, Russia has upgraded most of its nukes, and built a lot of new fallout shelters.

You might have a point. Maybe Russia is infiltrating our media to encourage people towards being transgender. And then when we're all arguing about that we'll ignore defence and forget that our missiles are old and crappy and the department of defence will spend all it's time sending out memos about gender inclusive language and put the building of fallout shelters on the back burner (there are fallout shelters being built?).

Those cunning Russkies! Ivan turns out to be a lot more cunning than we ever imagined.

Holy Toledo, where's McCarthy when we need him? 'Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the transgender community?' The very future of Western Civilisation is being threatened by Mary in accounts (she's transgender or so the rumour goes). Quick...check under your bed. There may be more!

 

[timothyu]

Maybe Russia is infiltrating our media to encourage people towards being transgender.

Might make things more acceptable for Team Russia at the next Olympics