The "Fewness of the Saved"

[HumbleServant1992]

Hello brothers and sisters in our Lord!

I have had a lot weighing on my mind over the past few days regarding the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved". I am a devout Roman Catholic and I had never heard of this doctrine before. I am used to having always been taught mercy and forgiveness not the pretty much IMPOSSIBLE chance of reaching Heaven. In this doctrine, backed by many Saints, very, VERY few Christians who think they are saved go to Heaven and most go to Hell. In this doctrine, according to Saint Leonard Of Port Maurice, on the hour of his death only two people out of 33.000 went to heaven and 3 out of 33,000 went to Purgatory. That means that MANY Christians who really followed and loved The Lord are in Hell. Only a few that are "Chosen By God" make it to Purgatory or Heaven. That is severely frightening to me because that would mean Heaven is basically reserved for the chosen Saints and that is about it. I am losing hope since the thought of Heaven and a love for our beautiful Lord are what get me through my days. I am far from perfect, and I fear perfection is what it takes. What do you all think?

Here is some information about this doctrine: The Fewness Of The Saved

A Roman Catholic Priest's sermon this doctrine:

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Hello friend, the key to Heaven, is to listen and understand the words and teachings of Jesus. Believing in Jesus is one thing but we must do also what he asked of us, that is keeping the 10 commandments and simply do good around us and love one another. Do not be distracted by anybody else saying you cannot make it to heaven. But know that GOD knows the heart of each and everyone of us so seek to be Holy as the Lord is Holy. Do not Forget GOD made man in HIS image! Never lose hope, this is a tactic of the devil this is what he wants. I will be here is you want to discuss further, I am new to this site also this is my first post.

Be Blessed

 

[JSRG]

Hello brothers and sisters in our Lord!

I have had a lot weighing on my mind over the past few days regarding the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved". I am a devout Roman Catholic and I had never heard of this doctrine before. I am used to having always been taught mercy and forgiveness not the pretty much IMPOSSIBLE chance of reaching Heaven. In this doctrine, backed by many Saints, very, VERY few Christians who think they are saved go to Heaven and most go to Hell. In this doctrine, according to Saint Leonard Of Port Maurice, on the hour of his death only two people out of 33.000 went to heaven and 3 out of 33,000 went to Purgatory. That means that MANY Christians who really followed and loved The Lord are in Hell. Only a few that are "Chosen By God" make it to Purgatory or Heaven. That is severely frightening to me because that would mean Heaven is basically reserved for the chosen Saints and that is about it. I am losing hope since the thought of Heaven and a love for our beautiful Lord are what get me through my days. I am far from perfect, and I fear perfection is what it takes. What do you all think?

Here is some information about this doctrine: The Fewness Of The Saved

A Roman Catholic Priest's sermon this doctrine:

It seems the Catholic forum might be a more appropriate place to post than this one.

I will note, however, that the idea that 33,000 people died in the hour of St. Bernard's death, and only 5 (including him) were saved is rather implausible. About 7,000 people die per hour nowadays, and the population back in the 12th century was around 400-500 million. It does not seem likely to me that with the world population back then being less than 1/16th what it is now, that more than 4 times as many people died.

 

[eleos1954]

Hello brothers and sisters in our Lord!

I have had a lot weighing on my mind over the past few days regarding the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved". I am a devout Roman Catholic and I had never heard of this doctrine before. I am used to having always been taught mercy and forgiveness not the pretty much IMPOSSIBLE chance of reaching Heaven. In this doctrine, backed by many Saints, very, VERY few Christians who think they are saved go to Heaven and most go to Hell. In this doctrine, according to Saint Leonard Of Port Maurice, on the hour of his death only two people out of 33.000 went to heaven and 3 out of 33,000 went to Purgatory. That means that MANY Christians who really followed and loved The Lord are in Hell. Only a few that are "Chosen By God" make it to Purgatory or Heaven. That is severely frightening to me because that would mean Heaven is basically reserved for the chosen Saints and that is about it. I am losing hope since the thought of Heaven and a love for our beautiful Lord are what get me through my days. I am far from perfect, and I fear perfection is what it takes. What do you all think?

Here is some information about this doctrine: The Fewness Of The Saved

A Roman Catholic Priest's sermon this doctrine:

There isn't a purgatory ... we are NOT immortal in any way.

1 Corinthians 15:51-55 ESV (we are changed at the last trumpet and THEN put on immortality.​

Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”

All who die earthly death rest peacefully dormant in the grave and will be resurrected at the last trumpet ... the first resurrection is of the saved .... later the 2nd resurrection occurs and they will be destroyed by God for eternity.

 

[Matt5]

Want to enter the narrow gate? Navigate Matthew 25.

Few will enter the kingdom of God which Jesus will establish here on Earth when he returns. The reason is that wars and the mark of the beast will decimate Christians. There are (almost) no Christians left by the time Jesus arrives. Some exceptions will be hiding out in the wilderness. There are always exceptions.

One can actually see the formation of several world wars right now.

How are you going to navigate through those wars? Answer: you won't. Better to just die. Welcome to the parable of the talents.

If you manage to navigate the world wars, then there is the mark. Will the fake bridegroom fool you? Welcome to the parable of the wise and foolish virgins.

If you live in the West, maybe .1% of Christians would even try to navigate Matthew 25.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello brothers and sisters in our Lord! I have had a lot weighing on my mind over the past few days regarding the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved". I am a devout Roman Catholic and I had never heard of this doctrine before.

Hello HumbleServant1992, first off, since I see that you are a new member, WELCOME TO CF

That said, while I am not Roman Catholic, I can say w/o reservation that no church has better defined what it believes than your church has. It's impressive, really! So, my first question for you is this, is "The Fewness of the Saved" a teaching from a certain few people within your church, or is it actually regarded BY your church as one of its official doctrines?

The fact that you have never heard of it before leads me to believe that it is probably the former (especially since we are talking about the RCC which, as I already mentioned, always seems to do such an amazing and thorough job of defining exactly what it believes), but I will (of course) wait to hear what you have to say about that.

One last thing, what is the evidence/basis for this teaching ("The Fewness of the Saved") by the "many saints" who you said, "back it"? Perhaps it is detailed in the video (I did not listen to all of it)? Are there Scripture references that those who teach "The Fewness of the Saved" point to as proof of their belief(s), etc.? Something else too/instead?

I believe that I will have a number of additional points to make (and perhaps some additional questions to ask), but I'd like to know a little bit more about it first because, like you, I've never heard of it before.

That said, hang in there while you work through this (because you may find that you are being overwhelmed with anxiety over nothing).

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - the teaching below (from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself) does not teach that all will be saved, but it certainly seems to indicate that more than just a very few will be, yes? As it was with the people of Israel and the bronze serpent in the OT .. Numbers 21:6-9*, so it has been/will continue to be for anyone who looks to the Lord Jesus as their Savior and believes.

*(Anyone who looked at the bronze serpent in the wilderness that Moses held up was healed when they did so, just like God said that they would be. This was a simple act of faith on their part, which amounted to simply believing God and taking Him at His word).​

John 3​

14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; ​

15 so that whosoever believes will in Him have eternal life.​

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. ​

17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. ​

 

[The Liturgist]

Hello brothers and sisters in our Lord!

I have had a lot weighing on my mind over the past few days regarding the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved". I am a devout Roman Catholic and I had never heard of this doctrine before. I am used to having always been taught mercy and forgiveness not the pretty much IMPOSSIBLE chance of reaching Heaven. In this doctrine, backed by many Saints, very, VERY few Christians who think they are saved go to Heaven and most go to Hell. In this doctrine, according to Saint Leonard Of Port Maurice, on the hour of his death only two people out of 33.000 went to heaven and 3 out of 33,000 went to Purgatory. That means that MANY Christians who really followed and loved The Lord are in Hell. Only a few that are "Chosen By God" make it to Purgatory or Heaven. That is severely frightening to me because that would mean Heaven is basically reserved for the chosen Saints and that is about it. I am losing hope since the thought of Heaven and a love for our beautiful Lord are what get me through my days. I am far from perfect, and I fear perfection is what it takes. What do you all think?

Here is some information about this doctrine: The Fewness Of The Saved

A Roman Catholic Priest's sermon this doctrine:

This sermon I think hits the wrong note to quite an extent, from both a Roman Catholic and an Eastern Orthodox perspective (and also a confessional Lutheran and traditional Anglican / Protestant perspective, as my friends @ViaCrucis @MarkRohfrietsch @Shane R and my Catholic friends I expect will agree).

From an Orthodox perspective:

One of the great Orthodox saints of recent times, St. Silouan the Athonite, said that there are two thoughts from which every Christian must flee: first, that we have attained holiness, and secondly, that we are beyond hope of salvation by God. Each of these ideas, that we are already holy, or that we are without hope of salvation, are equally toxic to our salvation.

Rather, in admitting that we are the chief of sinners, we must with a contrite heart and humility trust in our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ, who did not hesitate to condescend to the indignity of becoming human, the creator putting on His own creation, and to make himself a ransom for many, so that we might, having been strengthened, sustained and comforted in our faith through the guidance of our Lord, God and Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, through his all-sufficient sacrifice be raised at the last day and be glorified so as to spend eternity in the world to come in fellowship with Himself, and His Almighty and most Merciful Father, and the Holy Spirit, ever one God, who in their Triune love, of which we become an icon in our salvation, will illuminate us with the uncreated light of Tabor with the radiance of the most beautiful of the suns and stars, in the joy of life everlasting.

So, therefore, we must remain humble, and not presume ourselves to be holy, or to have attained sainthood, but at the same time, we must not despair concerning our own salvation, but rather trust in our almighty and most merciful God.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Hello brothers and sisters in our Lord!

I have had a lot weighing on my mind over the past few days regarding the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved". I am a devout Roman Catholic and I had never heard of this doctrine before. I am used to having always been taught mercy and forgiveness not the pretty much IMPOSSIBLE chance of reaching Heaven. In this doctrine, backed by many Saints, very, VERY few Christians who think they are saved go to Heaven and most go to Hell. In this doctrine, according to Saint Leonard Of Port Maurice, on the hour of his death only two people out of 33.000 went to heaven and 3 out of 33,000 went to Purgatory. That means that MANY Christians who really followed and loved The Lord are in Hell. Only a few that are "Chosen By God" make it to Purgatory or Heaven. That is severely frightening to me because that would mean Heaven is basically reserved for the chosen Saints and that is about it. I am losing hope since the thought of Heaven and a love for our beautiful Lord are what get me through my days. I am far from perfect, and I fear perfection is what it takes. What do you all think?

Here is some information about this doctrine: The Fewness Of The Saved

A Roman Catholic Priest's sermon this doctrine:

Here is a sermon from my Pastor that gives a much more Scriptural view; one that seems to be in line with what our Lord and His Apostles taught; the Sermon begins just after the 30 minute mark:

Salvation and Sanctification are a life lone endeavor on not only our part but also that of the Holy Spirit who continually calls, and enlightens us despite our fallen nature.

I hope this helps and comforts you.

In His Name,

Mark

 

[ViaCrucis]

So, therefore, we must remain humble, and not presume ourselves to be holy, or to have attained sainthood, but at the same time, we must not despair concerning our own salvation, but rather trust in our almighty and most merciful God.

QFT

This is what the Apostle means by not boasting, and by boasting in the Lord.

Of ourselves, we have no confidence before God.
In Christ, we have all confidence before God.

There is no holiness nor righteousness apart from Christ, apart from the compassionate unceasing mercy of God which is in Christ, for us.

We are brought to our knees in repentance, for great is our sin.
But even greater is God's mercy, which is ours in Christ, by Whom we are brought into the intimate and warm embrace of our God and Father.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[RileyG]

The OP is referring to a private revelation which is not officially taught by the RCC.

Officially, we do not know how many are in hell. That is up to God and God alone.

 

[Valletta]

Hello brothers and sisters in our Lord!

I have had a lot weighing on my mind over the past few days regarding the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved". I am a devout Roman Catholic and I had never heard of this doctrine before. I am used to having always been taught mercy and forgiveness not the pretty much IMPOSSIBLE chance of reaching Heaven. In this doctrine, backed by many Saints, very, VERY few Christians who think they are saved go to Heaven and most go to Hell. In this doctrine, according to Saint Leonard Of Port Maurice, on the hour of his death only two people out of 33.000 went to heaven and 3 out of 33,000 went to Purgatory. That means that MANY Christians who really followed and loved The Lord are in Hell. Only a few that are "Chosen By God" make it to Purgatory or Heaven. That is severely frightening to me because that would mean Heaven is basically reserved for the chosen Saints and that is about it. I am losing hope since the thought of Heaven and a love for our beautiful Lord are what get me through my days. I am far from perfect, and I fear perfection is what it takes. What do you all think?

Here is some information about this doctrine: The Fewness Of The Saved

A Roman Catholic Priest's sermon this doctrine:

If I may ask, how did you come across that website? The text started out with "The Catholic doctrine known as The Fewness of The Saved has been deliberately hidden from the laity for more than half a century." To me this is an attack on the integrity of the priesthood and the Catholic Church. Priests are there to spread the Gospel, not hide the Gospel. There is no Catholic doctrine stating how many will be saved. I would beware of such a website.

22 He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity!’ 28 There you will weep and gnash your teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And men will come from east and west, and from north and south, and sit at table in the kingdom of God. 30 And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.” Luke 13:22-30 RSVCE

Note Jesus is asked if "those who are saved be few?" but does not say yes or no.

 

[concretecamper]

the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved".

there is no such doctrine.

 

[RileyG]

there is no such doctrine.

This! The Church has never taught it.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Hello brothers and sisters in our Lord!

I have had a lot weighing on my mind over the past few days regarding the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved". I am a devout Roman Catholic and I had never heard of this doctrine before.

I have never heard of it before either. I don't think it is an actual doctrine of the Church. If it were actually so then you and I would have heard of it before.

My opinion, and it's just me giving my opinion, is that few will be saved. Not 'vanishingly few' but not the vast majority. I can't put a number on it, but as a WAG I would say it is half or a third will be saved. Which means it matters how we live and it matters how we live in community for the sake of others. Souls are actually at stake.

Of course none of us are saved by our own efforts. Just not possible, even for a rare good person. We are saved by and with Jesus Christ. We are saved if we love Him and obey Him and trust Him. Not everybody does. Even those of us who do have our moments of slack. But if we persevere in the grace God abundantly gives to us we will be saved.

So I wouldn't say 'don't worry about it'. Actually, I would say 'don't worry'. Live as a friend of Jesus, as a praying person, as a person who knows how to go to confession, as a person who listens to God. God wants you. God wants all of us but a lot of us refuse to listen. Listen and act on it and you will be fine. I say this as one who rejects the 'all will be saved' mentality. The path is narrow but it is still traveled by more people than you can count.

 

[RileyG]

I agree. Don't worry about death. Continue to pray, receive the Sacraments, and trust in God's mercy. Pray for the salvation of others.

Blessings

 

[BNR32FAN]

Hello brothers and sisters in our Lord!

I have had a lot weighing on my mind over the past few days regarding the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved". I am a devout Roman Catholic and I had never heard of this doctrine before. I am used to having always been taught mercy and forgiveness not the pretty much IMPOSSIBLE chance of reaching Heaven. In this doctrine, backed by many Saints, very, VERY few Christians who think they are saved go to Heaven and most go to Hell. In this doctrine, according to Saint Leonard Of Port Maurice, on the hour of his death only two people out of 33.000 went to heaven and 3 out of 33,000 went to Purgatory. That means that MANY Christians who really followed and loved The Lord are in Hell. Only a few that are "Chosen By God" make it to Purgatory or Heaven. That is severely frightening to me because that would mean Heaven is basically reserved for the chosen Saints and that is about it. I am losing hope since the thought of Heaven and a love for our beautiful Lord are what get me through my days. I am far from perfect, and I fear perfection is what it takes. What do you all think?

Here is some information about this doctrine: The Fewness Of The Saved

A Roman Catholic Priest's sermon this doctrine:

You should read Romans 7 :14-25. Paul even says himself that he wasn’t perfect. As for Saint Leonard I wouldn’t be fully convinced that he actually knew how many people went to heaven or hell.

 

[DragonFox91]

The world is full of people who think they are right w/ God b/c:
their parents were Christians
they go to church on Easter or Christmas
they grew up in the church
they had a fuzzy feeling about Jesus
they said a prayer
They go to church on Sundays
Even they serve in the church
They like the worship style

Most of these people are just going thru the motions. They like the idea of Jesus & heaven but, like the people following Jesus while he was here, are really only looking for a miracle. They're in it because it's expected of them by other people. They like the social aspect. It's part of the culture they live in & popular.

There's a mercy & forgiveness, yes, but also a rejection of that mercy & forgiveness by those who are not his saints.

I think we will be surprised how many are not saved, but also surprised how many are. Like Cheyvon, I would guess 1/3 will be - & that is still a HUGE number.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The world is full of people who think they are right w/ God b/c:
their parents were Christians
they go to church on Easter or Christmas
they grew up in the church
they had a fuzzy feeling about Jesus
they said a prayer
They go to church on Sundays
Even they serve in the church
They like the worship style

Most of these people are just going thru the motions. They like the idea of Jesus & heaven but, like the people following Jesus while he was here, are really only looking for a miracle. They're in it because it's expected of them by other people. They like the social aspect. It's part of the culture they live in & popular.

There's a mercy & forgiveness, yes, but also a rejection of that mercy & forgiveness by those who are not his saints.

I think we will be surprised how many are not saved, but also surprised how many are. Like Cheyvon, I would guess 1/3 will be - & that is still a HUGE number.

It will be a huge enough number that I should not despair of the possibility of God saving me too. It will be a small enough number that I should never presume that I will be among those who persevere. Especially I should not just sit on my hands while the drama of salvation plays out in my neighborhood. There is Good News for me to take hold of for myself and for me to share.

 

[RileyG]

The world is full of people who think they are right w/ God b/c:
their parents were Christians
they go to church on Easter or Christmas
they grew up in the church
they had a fuzzy feeling about Jesus
they said a prayer
They go to church on Sundays
Even they serve in the church
They like the worship style

Most of these people are just going thru the motions. They like the idea of Jesus & heaven but, like the people following Jesus while he was here, are really only looking for a miracle. They're in it because it's expected of them by other people. They like the social aspect. It's part of the culture they live in & popular.

There's a mercy & forgiveness, yes, but also a rejection of that mercy & forgiveness by those who are not his saints.

I think we will be surprised how many are not saved, but also surprised how many are. Like Cheyvon, I would guess 1/3 will be - & that is still a HUGE number.

Well said.

 

[Jan001]

Hello brothers and sisters in our Lord!

I have had a lot weighing on my mind over the past few days regarding the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved". I am a devout Roman Catholic and I had never heard of this doctrine before. I am used to having always been taught mercy and forgiveness not the pretty much IMPOSSIBLE chance of reaching Heaven. In this doctrine, backed by many Saints, very, VERY few Christians who think they are saved go to Heaven and most go to Hell. In this doctrine, according to Saint Leonard Of Port Maurice, on the hour of his death only two people out of 33.000 went to heaven and 3 out of 33,000 went to Purgatory. That means that MANY Christians who really followed and loved The Lord are in Hell. Only a few that are "Chosen By God" make it to Purgatory or Heaven. That is severely frightening to me because that would mean Heaven is basically reserved for the chosen Saints and that is about it. I am losing hope since the thought of Heaven and a love for our beautiful Lord are what get me through my days. I am far from perfect, and I fear perfection is what it takes. What do you all think?

Here is some information about this doctrine: The Fewness Of The Saved

A Roman Catholic Priest's sermon this doctrine:

Jesus stated that few are saved. That is why we must strive daily to be one of those few.

Matthew 7:13- 14 Enter through the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. 14 For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it. 14 For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Luke 13:23-28 Someone asked him, “Lord, will only a few be saved?” He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able. 25 Once the owner of the house has got up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then in reply he will say to you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say to you, ‘I do not know where you come from; go away from me, all you evildoers!’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrown out.

Matthew 19:16-19 Then someone came to him and said, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is one who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness. 19 Honor your father and mother. Also, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all, “If any wish to come after me, let them deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.

1 John 5:3 For the love of God is this, that we obey his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome,

So what should we sinners do? When we sin, we need to repent and then God will graciously forgive us. We need to repent as soon as we are aware of our sin.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Also, a good practice for us to do at bedtime is to do a review of our day and to ask forgiveness for the sins we remember having committed that day for which we have not yet repented.

Psalm 103:11-13
For as the heavens are high above the earth,
so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him;
12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far he removes our transgressions from us.
13 As a father has compassion for his children,
so the Lord has compassion for those who fear him.

1 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you in due time.

Luke 18:120-14 Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, was praying thus, ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people: thieves, rogues, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of all my income.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven but was beating his breast and saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his home justified rather than the other, for all who exalt themselves will be humbled, but all who humble themselves will be exalted.”