How are they saved if they never hear the gospel?

[Derf]

I'm starting with the assumption that there is a way those who haven't heard the gospel CAN be saved. An additional assumption that's implied is eternal lake of fire for those not in the book of life.

I'll give my answer in a following post, but feel free to offer solutions, preferably with biblical support.

Thanks to @bbbbbbb for the suggestion.

 

[HTacianas]

I'm starting with the assumption that there is a way those who haven't heard the gospel CAN be saved. An additional assumption that's implied is eternal lake of fire for those not in the book of life.

I'll give my answer in a following post, but feel free to offer solutions, preferably with biblical support.

Thanks to @bbbbbbb for the suggestion.

They are judged the same way everyone else is, by their works. One of the primary teachings of Christianity is "repentance from dead works" and fulfilling the works God preordained. Christianity is meant to teach people to do good. Without hearing the gospel people who are evil will continue to be evil.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law

Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

Rom 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,

Rom 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

Rom 2:16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

 

[Der Alte]

I'm starting with the assumption that there is a way those who haven't heard the gospel CAN be saved. An additional assumption that's implied is eternal lake of fire for those not in the book of life.
I'll give my answer in a following post, but feel free to offer solutions, preferably with biblical support.
Thanks to @bbbbbbb for the suggestion.

A few vss. to consider

Romans 4:15​

(15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.​

Romans 5:13​

(13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.​

Romans 2:14-15​

(14) For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:​

(15) Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;..​

Romans 1:18-20​

(18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;​

(19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.​

(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:​

 

[Philip_B]

Grace

 

[Derf]

They are judged the same way everyone else is, by their works. One of the primary teachings of Christianity is "repentance from dead works" and fulfilling the works God preordained. Christianity is meant to teach people to do good. Without hearing the gospel people who are evil will continue to be evil.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law

Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

Rom 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,

Rom 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

Rom 2:16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

If Christianity is meant to teach people to do good, is it ok if a person, let's say a Buddhist, does good, but still rejects Jesus Christ? Where does he end up for all eternity?

 

[Derf]

Here's my proposed answer, @bbbbbbb.

First, we need to see that Jesus came to save us from death, not second death.

Second, we need to recognize that He has saved us from death...all of us. But the salvation isn't realized yet, nor will it be until He returns. That's when the salvation happens, when the dead are raised. Who will be resurrected? Everyone, some to eternal life and some to eternal condemnation.

He told us all blasphemies against Him will be forgiven, but blasphemies against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. I think that means that even those that never knew Christ will be forgiven and raised to new life; and then comes judgment. Rev 20:12 says, "and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."
But it doesn't say they were sentenced according to their works. Rather, it says they were sentenced based on whether their names were in the book of life, which we all recognize as believing in Jesus Christ, right? But if they lived before Christ, especially if they were Gentiles, they wouldn't know to believe in Christ. God, being just, wouldn't punish them forever for not having heard tge gospel. So why not at that particular time? Wouldn't that be the perfect time to tell them the gospel, and if they believe, or if they bow the knee to Christ, He writes their name in the book of life right then.

And I don't see why He wouldn't treat those born after Christ that haven't heard the gospel in exactly the same way.

If they did hear the gospel and rejected it, they fall into the category of those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit, because they didn't follow His promptings. They are cast into the lake of fire.

 

[HTacianas]

If Christianity is meant to teach people to do good, is it ok if a person, let's say a Buddhist, does good, but still rejects Jesus Christ? Where does he end up for all eternity?

No one knows the answer to that question. It's best summed up, "we know that salvation is in the Church, we do not know where salvation is not".

 

[Derf]

No one knows the answer to that question. It's best summed up, "we know that salvation is in the Church, we do not know where salvation is not".

So we get to speculate.

 

[HTacianas]

So we get to speculate.

You can speculate if you want to but in the end it's just speculation. It is up to God on judgement day to determine who gets in and who does not.

 

[Derf]

You can speculate if you want to but in the end it's just speculation. It is up to God on judgement day to determine who gets in and who does not.

But not based on some unknown criterion. We can only be saved by grace, not by any works we can do. If that's true, then just being part of the church seems to only handle a small percentage of mankind.

 

[Soyeong]

I'm starting with the assumption that there is a way those who haven't heard the gospel CAN be saved. An additional assumption that's implied is eternal lake of fire for those not in the book of life.

I'll give my answer in a following post, but feel free to offer solutions, preferably with biblical support.

Thanks to @bbbbbbb for the suggestion.

Knowledge of the Gospel is part of salvation, so if someone has salvation, then they also have knowledge of the Gospel.

 

[HTacianas]

But not based on some unknown criterion. We can only be saved by grace, not by any works we can do. If that's true, then just being part of the church seems to only handle a small percentage of mankind.

Well first, this "saved by grace, not by any works" is a myth. One only needs to read the new testament to see that. At Matthew 25 Jesus goes through the criteria we will be judged by.

 

[Derf]

Well first, this "saved by grace, not by any works" is a myth. One only needs to read the new testament to see that. At Matthew 25 Jesus goes through the criteria we will be judged by.

Perhaps, but it's not pertinent unless you're suggesting we can be saved without any grace at all.

And again, those are the things we will be judged by, but not necessarily the things we will be sentenced by.

 

[Derf]

Knowledge of the Gospel is part of salvation, so if someone has salvation, then they also have knowledge of the Gospel.

This appears to be true, as belief requires knowledge. But we recognize that infants are not all going to be condemned to hell, so the level of knowledge is either not very high in the first place, or a person's knowledge is allowed to change after the resurrection.

 

[HTacianas]

Perhaps, but it's not pertinent unless you're suggesting we can be saved without any grace at all.

And again, those are the things we will be judged by, but not necessarily the things we will be sentenced by.

It spells out the sentence very well.

 

[Derf]

It spells out the sentence very well.

Yes, but it doesn't stand on its own. Rev 20 gives more info, assuming it's speaking of the same judgment (maybe it's not).

Revelation 20:15 KJV — And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Keep in mind that we were all guilty of the same kinds of things.

1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV — And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

If God's grace can be applied to those who hear the gospel and repent, why not to those who never hear the gospel in this life? Obviously they will have heard before they are cast into the lake of fire, else the book of life would mean nothing to them, either.

 

[HTacianas]

Yes, but it doesn't stand on its own. Rev 20 gives more info, assuming it's speaking of the same judgment (maybe it's not).

Revelation 20:15 KJV — And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Keep in mind that we were all guilty of the same kinds of things.

1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV — And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

If God's grace can be applied to those who hear the gospel and repent, why not to those who never hear the gospel in this life? Obviously they will have heard before they are cast into the lake of fire, else the book of life would mean nothing to them, either.

It says that the Corinthians once were guilty of those things. But that they had been washed of them. The washing came through baptism when all of those previous things had been forgiven. But then the warnings of Romans, the Revelation, and also 2 Peter, to name a few:

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,

Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

 

[rturner76]

I'm starting with the assumption that there is a way those who haven't heard the gospel CAN be saved. An additional assumption that's implied is eternal lake of fire for those not in the book of life.

I'll give my answer in a following post, but feel free to offer solutions, preferably with biblical support.

Thanks to @bbbbbbb for the suggestion.

It could happen simply because God is sovereign and he can do whatever he wants.

6. Proverbs 16:33​

The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

 

[Derf]

It could happen simply because God is sovereign and he can do whatever he wants.

6. Proverbs 16:33​

The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

He can do whatever He wants as long as it aligns with His character. He can't lie, for instance. If the lake of fire is vengeance for the things angels and mankind has done against Him and His children, and He doesn't take the vengeance He's promised, then hasn't He lied?

[Rom 12:19 KJV] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
[2Th 1:8 KJV] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[Heb 10:30 KJV] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[Rev 6:10 KJV] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

 

[Derf]

It says that the Corinthians once were guilty of those things. But that they had been washed of them. The washing came through baptism when all of those previous things had been forgiven. But then the warnings of Romans, the Revelation, and also 2 Peter, to name a few:

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,

Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

The water part doesn't seem to be the important part:
[1Pe 3:21 KJV] The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

And your verses seem to be referring to those who have been baptized already, or were already His chosen. "He won't blot out his name"; "You also will be cut off"; "than having known [the way of righteousness], to turn from the holy commandment"?