Former President Donald Trump has been indicted for a second time

[Arcangl86]

No doubt, if elected, he will continue his behavior pattern that got him impeached twice, warranting a third. But in the end that is futile and not desired because his party would never vote to convict no matter how egregious his actions. Criminal court is much more appropriate.

The problem is, the same thing can be said about many of his voters, and it only takes one person to prevent a conviction. I still want to see the indictment, but I do believe that legally this is justified based on what we know happened. But politically it's going to read as trying to go after a political candidate, and like I said, they just need to convince one person of that.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

According to your Government Archives people official records of the President are in public ownership.

The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. ß2201-2209, governs the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents that were created or received after January 20, 1981 (i.e., beginning with the Reagan Administration). The PRA changed the legal ownership of the official records of the President from private to public, and established a new statutory structure under which Presidents, and subsequently NARA, must manage the records of their Administrations. The PRA was amended in 2014, which established several new provisions.​

​

Specifically, the PRA:​

• Establishes public ownership of all Presidential records and defines the term Presidential records.

Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978

The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. ß2201-2209, governs the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents that were created or received after January 20, 1981 (i.e., beginning with the Reagan Administration). The PRA changed the legal ownership of the official records of...

www.archives.gov

OB

But classified materials are still classified

Declassification at the Presidential Libraries

Declassification at the Presidential Libraries Presidential Libraries hold more than 30 million pages of textual classified materials and more than 1,000 rolls of classified microfilm from the Franklin D. Roosevelt through George W. Bush Presidential administrations. In addition, the Libraries...

www.archives.gov

 

[ralliann]

Update: Trump has been indicted on 7 counts. He is set to be arraigned in federal court in Miami on Tuesday at 3 p.m. ET. Thread title has been changed to reflect this..

The Department of Justice is preparing to ask a Washington, DC grand jury to indict former president Donald Trump for violating the Espionage Act and for obstruction of justice as soon as Thursday, adding further weight to the legal baggage facing Mr Trump as he campaigns for his party’s nomination in next year’s presidential election.

The Independent has learned that prosecutors are ready to ask grand jurors to approve an indictment against Mr Trump for violating a portion of the US criminal code known as Section 793, which prohibits “gathering, transmitting or losing” any “information respecting the national defence”.

The use of Section 793, which does not make reference to classified information, is understood to be a strategic decision by prosecutors that has been made to short-circuit Mr Trump’s ability to claim that he used his authority as president to declassify documents he removed from the White House and kept at his Palm Beach, Florida property long after his term expired on 20 January 2021.

That section of US criminal law is written in a way that could encompass Mr Trump’s conduct even if he was authorised to possess the information as president because it states that anyone who “lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or being entrusted with any document ...relating to the national defence,” and “willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it” can be punished by as many as ten years in prison.

Prosecutors seeking Trump indictment on obstruction and Espionage Act charges

The Independent has learned that prosecutors are prepared to ask grand jurors to vote on charges as early as Thursday

www.independent.co.uk

Who is surprised. Anything else they can find, there will be more.

 

[wing2000]

Most people have had a few alcoholic beverages, and have driven. Most people have stole 'something' at least once in their life.

Most people would return the item if the government requested it.

Why on earth D Trump tried to defy the authorities and hide the documents, move the documents and refuse to return them. He's getting exactly what he deserves.

...because he felt entitled to keep them. It's no surprise given he has never had to account for his actions over a lifetime. That's about to change....finally.

 

[wing2000]

It is really hard to steal something that is yours to begin with - like all his predecessors - and to be the one who classifies/declassifies.

It was not his.
Those documents belong to the government of the United States.
And *none* of his predecessors refused to return documents in their possession.

 

[comana]

Who is surprised. Anything else they can find, there will be more.

I certainly will not be surprised when there is more. He has shown us who he is and is finally being held to account.

 

[Brihaha]

This is a necessary step towards making America great again. Hopefully we all learned something from our Trump experiment. Many are still in the denial phase still.

 

[ralliann]

I certainly will not be surprised when there is more.

Nobody should be surprised, And I do not think too many will be.

 

[ralliann]

This is a necessary step towards making America great again. Hopefully we all learned something from our Trump experiment. Many are still in the denial phase still.

Well, most of us have learned. Few I believed are just shocked, shocked. We have been watching this for how many years now? Denial of this isn't an option. It is going on all over the media.
Wash rinse repeat.,

 

[Always in His Presence]

Amid reports that the Department of Justice is planning to drop an indictment on former President Donald Trump for his handling of classified documents, a new report has emerged that runs contrary to the narrative that the former president never followed the rules.​

​

According to a report from CNN, a former official who served in the White House during the Trump and Obama administrations as an adviser on declassifying documents, provided specific instances of when Trump ensured everything was done by the book.​

​

New Witness Destroys Entire Trump Docs Narrative, Even CNN Can't Ignore This Bombshell

A report on CNN challenges the narrrative that former President Donald Trump never kept to the rules on classified documents.

www.westernjournal.com

 

[comana]

Amid reports that the Department of Justice is planning to drop an indictment on former President Donald Trump for his handling of classified documents, a new report has emerged that runs contrary to the narrative that the former president never followed the rules.​

​

According to a report from CNN, a former official who served in the White House during the Trump and Obama administrations as an adviser on declassifying documents, provided specific instances of when Trump ensured everything was done by the book.​

​

New Witness Destroys Entire Trump Docs Narrative, Even CNN Can't Ignore This Bombshell

A report on CNN challenges the narrrative that former President Donald Trump never kept to the rules on classified documents.

www.westernjournal.com

In other words, Trump knew the correct process and still retained classified documents instead of returning them upon request. That’s not gonna help his defense.

 

[RileyG]

I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.

 

[JosephZ]

Amid reports that the Department of Justice is planning to drop an indictment on former President Donald Trump for his handling of classified documents, a new report has emerged that runs contrary to the narrative that the former president never followed the rules.

According to a report from CNN, a former official who served in the White House during the Trump and Obama administrations as an adviser on declassifying documents, provided specific instances of when Trump ensured everything was done by the book.

It appears Trump's own words discredit the idea that he followed the rules and did everything by the book.

Former President Donald Trump acknowledged on tape in a 2021 meeting that he had retained “secret” military information that he had not declassified, according to a transcript of the audio recording obtained by CNN.

“As president, I could have declassified, but now I can’t,” Trump says, according to the transcript.

CNN obtained the transcript of a portion of the meeting where Trump is discussing a classified Pentagon document about attacking Iran. In the audio recording, which CNN previously reported was obtained by prosecutors, Trump says that he did not declassify the document he’s referencing, according to the transcript.

The transcript of the audio recording suggests that Trump is showing the document he’s discussing to those in the room. Several sources have told CNN the recording captures the sound of paper rustling, as if Trump was waving the document around, though is not clear if it was the actual Iran document.

“Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this,” Trump says at one point, according to the transcript. “This was done by the military and given to me.”

Trump continues: “All sorts of stuff – pages long, look. Wait a minute, let’s see here. I just found, isn’t that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know. Except it is like, highly confidential. Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this.”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/09/politics/trump-tape-didnt-declassify-secret-information/index.html

 

[Whyayeman]

It's not surprising that some classified material might get caught up in the move.

Actually it is surprising. Are we to suppose that classified documents were just lying around in plain view of the staff? Then they were just lying around among other papers at Trump's Miami house? Remember that many people come and go there too.

If such material mattered to American security it is astonishing that it was treated in such a casual way.

 

[ralliann]

I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.

There were other matters going on instead.

 

[RileyG]

There were other matters going on instead.

That's true

 

[Say it aint so]

It appears Trump's own words discredit the idea that he followed the rules and did everything by the book.

Former President Donald Trump said on an audio recording in 2021 that he had taken classified information with him to his Florida home after leaving the White House, ABC News has confirmed.

Trump is heard on the audio recording saying, as described to ABC News, "As president I could have declassified, but now I can't."

According to a portion of the transcript of the call obtained by ABC News, Trump is heard acknowledging that the document he claims to have is "highly confidential" and "secret."

"Except it is like, highly confidential. Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. This was done by the military and given to me," a transcript of the audio obtained by ABC News says.

The transcript appears to suggest that Trump is showing the document in question to those in the room.

'This is secret information': Trump on audio recording talks about not declassifying documents

According to a portion of the transcript obtained by ABC News, Trump is heard acknowledging that the document he claims to have is "highly confidential" and "secret."

abcnews.go.com

This part of his word salad statement is just bizzaire. "This totally wins my case, you know. Except it is like, highly confidential. Secret."
In Trump's mind he thinks he's in some kind of war or verbal altercation with General Milley because Gen Milley went out of his way to assure countries that Trump's desperation acts wouldn't escalate and affect them.

 

[Brihaha]

Well, most of us have learned. Few I believed are just shocked, shocked. We have been watching this for how many years now? Denial of this isn't an option. It is going on all over the media.
Wash rinse repeat.,

Republicans have learned to ignore their supposed ethical and moral principles to excuse trump's reprehensible behavior time and time again. This is not productive learning, as it has exacerbated our tribalism and distrust in government.

Investigate democrats.....wash, rinse, repeat. Vote for the R....wash, rinse, repeat. Listen to Trump....wash, rinse, repeat. Do the same thing over and over expecting different results....wash, rinse, repeat.

Denial is an option, and you ironically utilized said denial in your reply lol.

 

[chevyontheriver]

No doubt, if elected, he will continue his behavior pattern that got him impeached twice, warranting a third. But in the end that is futile and not desired because his party would never vote to convict no matter how egregious his actions. Criminal court is much more appropriate.

It’s all theater. His first trial was a nothingburger. This attempt doesn’t look much different.

 

[comana]

It’s all theater. His first trial was a nothingburger. This attempt doesn’t look much different.

You mean the trial that found in favor of the plaintiff in the amount of 5 million?