The killing of Jordan Neely.

[Yttrium]

I would advise anyone reading this to not follow what you're claim as "appropriate" behavior. It is not okay to man-handle people over language. It's totally illegal.

Yes, that's illegal. I wasn't talking about man-handling people over language, though.

 

[LesSme]

Neely obviously presented a clear and present danger. Two other people were also restraining him. Hopefully the witnesses in the car will come forward and attest to feeling threatened because Penny is going to be viciously prosecuted under a system biased in favor of criminals.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Another case where, based on partisan reasons, everyone "rushes to their battle stations" and portrays one person as "the bad guy" and the other as a "hero"

Life isn't that simple sometimes...

Based on what we've seen thus far, my inclination is just to think this is an unfortunate situation all around.

Neely's family is coming out of the woodwork, hiring a lawyer, and trying to capitalize off of this is something I view as somewhat shameful. If they cared about him that much, he shouldn't been homeless and living on the streets. If my brother was mentally ill to that degree, he wouldn't be living on the streets, he'd be living with me and wouldn't be homeless.

In Perry's case, it looks like a situation where a person injected themselves in a situation that they weren't trained or equipped to handle. The right focusing on the fact that he was a Marine is just obfuscating the issue. While I'm appreciative of what Marines do and the rigorous process they have to go through, they're not mental health experts and they're not trained specifically to handle that type of situation and he probably should've just employed "watchful waiting" until Neely actually posed a tangible threat to someone else before involving himself.

Some media outlets have already employed the tired old tactic of showing the person they want you to be sympathetic towards in the form of their pictures from 5 years ago during "better times" (they did the same during the Treyvon Martin fiasco)... likewise, the right has made the predictable move of immediately trying to exonerate someone of bad decision making because they check off a box that makes them assume they're a political ally. "Oh he was a Marine, that must mean he's on our side"

Do I think that Neely was just a "happy go lucky guy who liked to do Michael Jackson impressions on the subway"?...no, his arrest record shows otherwise. Do I think his family that's decided to hire lawyers have any sincere care for their family member? That's very questionable...as I said, I can't imagine me letting my immediate family member be a homeless person, and then all of the sudden pretend to care about them when I think there's a payday around the corner.

At the same time, while people like Perry may have been well-intentioned in thinking they were "preemptively preventing a crime", if your training isn't specifically in the realm of dealing with a person who's having "a mental health episode", and isn't in "subduing in a way that doesn't cause serious damage", perhaps it's best to just sit back and observe before injecting yourself into the situation.

 

[Malleeboy]

Can someone tell me why the African-american and Latino who assisted in controlling Neely have not been charged?

 

[Yttrium]

Can someone tell me why the African-american and Latino who assisted in controlling Neely have not been charged?

Because unlike Penny, there's no indication so far that they committed a crime.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Because unlike Penny, there's no indication so far that they committed a crime.

What if they were both white guys, would they have then?

...Or better yet, white Marines. What do you think?

 

[Yttrium]

What if they were both white guys, would they have then?

No.

...Or better yet, white Marines.

No.

Would you like to try more skin colors? More professions? I won't be changing my answer.

 

[rjs330]

Neely's family is coming out of the woodwork, hiring a lawyer, and trying to capitalize off of this is something I view as somewhat shameful. If they cared about him that much, he shouldn't been homeless and living on the streets. If my brother was mentally ill to that degree, he wouldn't be living on the streets, he'd be living with me and wouldn't be homeless.

Maybe he wanted to b homeless. You can't make him stay. Maybe he was too violent to be with his family.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Would you like to try more skin colors?

The only reason we're even talking about this is because of skin colors. So it's a valid question.

 

[Yttrium]

The only reason we're even talking about this is because of skin colors. So it's a valid question.

You have my answer.

 

[Malleeboy]

Because unlike Penny, there's no indication so far that they committed a crime.

If you assist a person hold someone whilst they allegedly commit manslaughter, how is that not a crime??
From you perspective it at very least it is assault, if not accessory to the manslaughter charge.
They are refraining him from moving, they are refraining from resisting the person charged.

 

[Yttrium]

If you assist a person hold someone whilst they allegedly commit manslaughter, how is that not a crime??
From you perspective it at very least it is assault, if not accessory to the manslaughter charge.
They are refraining him from moving, they are refraining from resisting the person charged.

Accessory to second degree manslaughter? That's not a thing. It was an accident. No, it's not assault. I have no problem with Penny acting to restrain the guy who's acting crazy and (allegedly) throwing trash and threatening people. The problem is that Penny applied too much force, and accidentally killed the guy.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Accessory to second degree manslaughter? That's not a thing. It was an accident. No, it's not assault. I have no problem with Penny acting to restrain the guy who's acting crazy and (allegedly) throwing trash and threatening people. The problem is that Penny applied too much force, and accidentally killed the guy.

I guess I just don't understand the line where it is or isn't legal to physically restrain someone against their will. Because I know that in many instances it would be considered assault.

...What specific conditions make it legal according to the law exactly? Is that like a 'citizens arrest' or something?

 

[rjs330]

I guess I just don't understand the line where it is or isn't legal to physically restrain someone against their will. Because I know that in many instances it would be considered assault.

...What specific conditions make it legal according to the law exactly? Is that like a 'citizens arrest' or something?

Self defense is a condition. If someone threatens to harm you, you can restrain them. It's not against the law to restrain someone if you believe your or someone else is in danger.

 

[Pommer]

Self defense is a condition. If someone threatens to harm you, you can restrain them. It's not against the law to restrain someone if you believe your or someone else is in danger.

If one “restrains” someone to death, expect complications.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Let's just get to it. Manslaughter occurs 55 times a day, on average, in the United States...

U.S.: reported murder and nonnegligent manslaughter cases 2023| Statista

How many criminal homicides were there in the U.S.? In 2023, there were 19,252 reported cases of murder or non-negligent manslaughter in the United States, a decrease from 21,781 cases reported in the previous year.

www.statista.com

This case is only special because a white man killed a black man.

I think it was obvious that media wanted this case....and they probably would have used the old man in Florida who shot the lost black teen...but that one wasn't working out right. They even pulled the guy's grandson in front of a camera to call him racist....didn't capture the outrage.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It was determined to be a choke hold by the medical examiner.

Why, do you think he choked to death by a different means?

There was nothing wrong with the other two providing restraint.

Well last I checked....those trainee cops who stood by while their supervisor killed George Floyd were getting charged.

Fair is fair. These guys at least helped kill the man.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Another case where, based on partisan reasons, everyone "rushes to their battle stations" and portrays one person as "the bad guy" and the other as a "hero"

Life isn't that simple sometimes...

Based on what we've seen thus far, my inclination is just to think this is an unfortunate situation all around.

Neely's family is coming out of the woodwork, hiring a lawyer, and trying to capitalize off of this is something I view as somewhat shameful. If they cared about him that much, he shouldn't been homeless and living on the streets. If my brother was mentally ill to that degree, he wouldn't be living on the streets, he'd be living with me and wouldn't be homeless.

In Perry's case, it looks like a situation where a person injected themselves in a situation that they weren't trained or equipped to handle. The right focusing on the fact that he was a Marine is just obfuscating the issue. While I'm appreciative of what Marines do and the rigorous process they have to go through, they're not mental health experts and they're not trained specifically to handle that type of situation and he probably should've just employed "watchful waiting" until Neely actually posed a tangible threat to someone else before involving himself.

Some media outlets have already employed the tired old tactic of showing the person they want you to be sympathetic towards in the form of their pictures from 5 years ago during "better times" (they did the same during the Treyvon Martin fiasco)... likewise, the right has made the predictable move of immediately trying to exonerate someone of bad decision making because they check off a box that makes them assume they're a political ally. "Oh he was a Marine, that must mean he's on our side"

Do I think that Neely was just a "happy go lucky guy who liked to do Michael Jackson impressions on the subway"?...no, his arrest record shows otherwise. Do I think his family that's decided to hire lawyers have any sincere care for their family member? That's very questionable...as I said, I can't imagine me letting my immediate family member be a homeless person, and then all of the sudden pretend to care about them when I think there's a payday around the corner.

At the same time, while people like Perry may have been well-intentioned in thinking they were "preemptively preventing a crime", if your training isn't specifically in the realm of dealing with a person who's having "a mental health episode", and isn't in "subduing in a way that doesn't cause serious damage", perhaps it's best to just sit back and observe before injecting yourself into the situation.

For more reasons than I care to list....I just don't want to watch the video.

You sound like you have though....and from your description...it sounds like the guy getting charged is the first one to do anything physical.

Is that the case? It sounds very weird but certainly possible. Did this guy get into the subway car....start yelling violent threats...and then a bunch of guys just jumped on him and killed him? He didn't reach into his waistband as if he were about to pull a gun, or ball his fists or advance on anyone at all?

Like I said, it's certainly possible but it's odd. I've only seen the Michael Jackson pictures. I don't think people would be as sympathetic if they knew he spent a month every year as Robert E Lee in Civil War reenactments.

 

[Yttrium]

I guess I just don't understand the line where it is or isn't legal to physically restrain someone against their will. Because I know that in many instances it would be considered assault.

...What specific conditions make it legal according to the law exactly? Is that like a 'citizens arrest' or something?

Self-defense laws typically allow you to only use an amount of force reasonably necessary. Restraining someone in a way that causes no harm would be fine if you feel you're about to be attacked. The amount of harm you could inflict would be relative to how much damage your opponent could do to you. In some states, you can pull out a gun and shoot someone if you feel your life is in imminent jeopardy, although you're going to have to sufficiently justify that to the cops.

As for specifics, you can look up the laws as easily as I can.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Self defense is a condition. If someone threatens to harm you, you can restrain them. It's not against the law to restrain someone if you believe your or someone else is in danger.

I think people are confused by those recent "can't say bomb on a plane" type laws. I'm willing to fight tooth and nail for free speech, because 9 times out of 10, a threat is just a threat.

...You have to touch someone, or reach for a weapon and brandish it before people can tackle you. That's the way it should be in a fair world.

Even in Christianity, a woman who says she's going to have an abortion, but changes her mind has committed no sin! It should be the same in *ALL* things - if you don't actually *DO* it, no harm has been done.

People are wrong to say otherwise.