Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

[Frank Sophia]

Sarah has provided our glory through him.

 

[BobRyan]

She has provided his humanity.

that is not how incarnation works. But it is key to procreation.

there is a difference

who gave Adam his humanity? the dust??

You are glossing over the difference between incarnation and procreation.

 

[Frank Sophia]

that is not how incarnation works. But it is key to procreation.

there is a difference

who gave Adam his humanity? the dust??

You are glossing over the difference between incarnation and procreation.

Adam was not born by any womb...

You are not noticing that the Word and the flesh are different things.

The Word is co-eternal with the Father, but the human called Jesus was birthed immaculately.

The Spirit has provided his Divinity while Mary provides the humanity.

People don't like putting them together, or noticing they are fully together.

 

[Zachm531]

I would say -- "there was a day when someone said to you - blessed be your mother who gave you birth" and I remember what your response to that person was "ON THE CONTRARY - blessed are those who hear the Word of God AND observe it" -- did you mean to add "and blessed be Mary - Mother of God"??

Luke 11:27 While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” 28 But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”





Nope. I would say

Rom 3:23 "ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
Rom 3:9 "there is NONE righteous not even ONE"

I would join with Mary who said - "my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior" Luke 1:47 . -- we are redeemed from the curse of condemnation under the law.

Yeah when Jesus said “on the contrary” He was obviously saying: “Mary is not blessed as you say” completely contradicting the Holy Ghost filled Elizabeth when she said:
“And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1‬:‭41‬-‭42‬ ‭
And also completely contradicting what His mother said:
“For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1‬:‭48‬ ‭

And Jesus response of “on the contrary” was clearly saying that Mary did not hear the word of God and obey it, completely contradicting the annunciation narrative:
“Then Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1‬:‭38‬ ‭

 

[JulieB67]

Picture this:
you get to Heaven and stand before Christ and He says “what do you say of my mother? The woman who gave me my flesh?”

Mary is not going to be singled out on Judgement Day. Christ told us to love God with all of our heart, soul and mind and to love our neighbor as our self. That includes everyone. No one but God is to be raised above anyone else.

And there's been no disrespecting of Mary in this thread. Many don't raise her up and we aren't told to. We are told she will be called "blessed" to have given birth to our savior and so she was. But no one should raise up her above anyone else and Christ certainly didn't. And as I stated, he gave us certain commandments and she wasn't held above anyone else in the "neighbor' department.

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

Exactly! Jesus exalted Mary because she perfectly did the will of God.

Lots of people have perfectly done the will of God. Not consistently throughout their entire lives but at given times. We don't know that Mary perfectly did the will of God throughout her entire life. No one, save Jesus, lived a perfect life.

 

[JoeT]

I would say -- "there was a day when someone said to you - blessed be your mother who gave you birth" and I remember what your response to that person was "ON THE CONTRARY - blessed are those who hear the Word of God AND observe it" -- did you mean to add "and blessed be Mary - Mother of God"??

Luke 11:27 While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” 28 But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”

Now consider if you will, what would the women have received if in fact His mother didn't hear the word of God and observe it. Christ would have been admonishing the woman for not hearing the Word of God or observing it. Mary had her Savoir (and ours) in her heart, soul, and womb.

Nope. I would say

Rom 3:23 "ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

We find all refers St. Paul is referring to the sin of Jews and gentile alike, all. If we receive this an objective an "all", then Scripture should not tell us of Mary's sins: can you name Mary's sins in Scripture? As part of the "all" she would be an unworthy recipient of God, an unholy ark of the covenant. Even Christ would be subject to the "all". In fact, taking "all" objectively would make flesh sin, even Christ's.

Rom 3:9 "there is NONE righteous not even ONE"

I would join with Mary who said - "my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior" Luke 1:47 . -- we are redeemed from the curse of condemnation under the law.

Mary received justification in conception as a grace from God. It is only right and proper that she should view God as her savior, she was truly blessed.

"Cursed be he that abideth not in the words of this law, and fulfilleth them not in work: and all the people shall say: Amen" [Deuteronomy 27:26]. Instead I would suggest, "Whatsoever He shall say to you, do ye."

JoeT

 

[concretecamper]

Lots of people have perfectly done the will of God. Not consistently throughout their entire lives but at given times. We don't know that Mary perfectly did the will of God throughout her entire life. No one, save Jesus, lived a perfect life.

Feel free to qualify what our Lord said.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

I would say -- "there was a day when someone said to you - blessed be your mother who gave you birth" and I remember what your response to that person was "ON THE CONTRARY - blessed are those who hear the Word of God AND observe it" -- did you mean to add "and blessed be Mary - Mother of God"??

Luke 11:27 While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” 28 But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.

Now consider if you will, what would the women have received if in fact His mother didn't hear the word of God and observe it.

There would be no change at all in his answer. His answer works either way no matter what Mary had chosen because He redirects the focus AWAY from Mary and TO "each person" that hears the Word of God and either observes it or not. And this was done even though the person that raises the point sought to draw attention to Mary , in her role as biological mother, and the statement that she was blessed.

 

[BobRyan]

Adam was not born by any womb...

Indeed. Neither Adam nor Christ came about because of biological procreation

Adam came about because of direct creation
And Christ came about because of the direct creation act involved in incarnation

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

Feel free to qualify what our Lord said.

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23

That "all" includes Mary. We are never told she was an exception nor does her role as the mother of Jesus requires her to be sinless. That is Catholic fiction. She did not have to be born without original sin nor be sinless. We are not told she was sinless. The Catholic church has turned her into someone Scripture did not. I will stick with the Bible and not all this extra-biblical reasoning and claimed revelation that has turned Mary into someone she never was.

 

[BobRyan]

And you say “oh Mary? She was a good woman but she was a wicked dog

Nope. I would say

Rom 3:23 "ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
Rom 3:9 "there is NONE righteous not even ONE"

I would join with Mary who said - "my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior" Luke 1:47 . -- we are redeemed from the curse of condemnation under the law.

We find all refers St. Paul is referring to the sin of Jews and gentile alike, all.

He does not just say "at least one person in all groups has sinned". No such limiting context is there.

If we receive this an objective an "all", then Scripture should not tell us of Mary's sins: can you name Mary's sins in Scripture?

Can you name Stephen's sins in scripture -- Stephen was "Full of grace and power" as scripture says - and yet Paul informs us that Stephen was a sinner in need of the gospel.

As part of the "all" she would be an unworthy recipient of God

IT is speculation on your part to say that God could not select a child of Adam who had a fallen sinful nature just as did Adam after his fall, to give birth to the Messiah.

I suspect you "speculate further" that Mary's mother was also a sinless being even though Mary's grandmother was not.

 

[concretecamper]

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23

That "all" includes Mary. We are never told she was an exception nor does her role as the mother of Jesus requires her to be sinless. That is Catholic fiction. She did not have to be born without original sin nor be sinless. We are not told she was sinless. The Catholic church has turned her into someone Scripture did not. I will stick with the Bible and not all this extra-biblical reasoning and claimed revelation that has turned Mary into someone she never was.

yes, we all know your views. next

 

[BobRyan]

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23

That "all" includes Mary. We are never told she was an exception nor does her role as the mother of Jesus requires her to be sinless. That is Catholic fiction. She did not have to be born without original sin nor be sinless. We are not told she was sinless. The Catholic church has turned her into someone Scripture did not. I will stick with the Bible and not all this extra-biblical reasoning and claimed revelation that has turned Mary into someone she never was.

Good point.

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

yes, we all know your views. next

I could say the same about you, so what's your point?

 

[concretecamper]

I could say the same about you, so what's your point?

The part of your reply I quoted was irrelevant to my post. You used your reply as an opportunity to get in some of the main protestant talking points.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good day,

I think Leo 1 a Roman Bishop covered this plain and simply...


And therefore in the general ruin of the entire human race there was but one remedy in the secret of the Divine plan which could succour the fallen, and that was that one of the sons of Adam should be born free and innocent of original transgression, to prevail for the rest both by His example and His merits. Still further, because this was not permitted by natural generation, and because there could be no offspring from our faulty stock without seed, of which the Scripture saith, 'Who can make a clean thing conceived of an unclean seed? is it not Thou who art alone?'" (Sermon 28:3)

There is only one Son of Adam born free and innocent even though He came from faulty stock.

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

The same Church that said the Gospel of Matthew is inspired text also said Mary was Immaculately conceived. You either accept it all, or reject it all.

Good day,

Not being a member of that Church what they say and they assertions fall as meaningless.

The Gospel is inspired because of it's it's origin, some Church does not have to say that they just recognize it as so.

A Church can say lots of things... but that does not make them true. A Church can play the name it claim it game and some may fall for it.

To error is human.

In Him,

Bill

 

[BobRyan]

The same Church that said the Gospel of Matthew is inspired text also said Mary was Immaculately conceived. You either accept it all, or reject it all.

The same church that called for the "extermination of heretics" in LATERAN IV and calls for "communion with the dead" in its Catechism statement #958 Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 958 -- also claims Mary was sinless like Christ and was in fact born sinless.

But not everyone is a member of that one denomination - so not every agrees to those teachings -- EVEN though long BEFORE all of that - we all had the book of Matthew.

 

[concretecamper]

The same church that called for the "extermination of heretics" in LATERAN IV and calls for "communion with the dead" in its Catechism statement #958 Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 958 -- also claims Mary was sinless like Christ and was in fact born sinless.

But not everyone is a member of that one denomination - so not every agrees to those teachings -- EVEN though long BEFORE all of that - we all had the book of Matthew.

I bet you get all your news from CNN