Sins Not Unto Death

[Bible Highlighter]

Sins Not Unto Death:

Important Note:
Please keep in mind that I am not trying to trivialize sin. I believe after we are saved by God's grace that we must live holy as a part of God's plan of salvation. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Believers cannot justify sin that leads to spiritual death, condemnation, or hellfire. For I believe we should obey the Lord in all things. For I want to stress that there are grievous sins (or death sins) like murder, hate, adultery, lying, etc. that can lead even a believer to being condemned in the Lake of Fire if such sins are not repented of (i.e. if these sins are not confessed or forsaken).
Anyways,...

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Here is my biblical case for sins that do not lead unto death:

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#1. 1 John 5:17 mentions the "sin not unto death."​

In context to 1 John 5: This would be talking about confessed grievous sin that one is striving to overcome with the Lord's help (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 13:14). In 1 John 5, the brethren are praying for this believer to have victory (life) over their sin as this believer confesses their sin (Note: Grievous sin are sins the Bible warns with punishment by hellfire, or spiritual death, etc.; These would be sins like murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, etc.). If these sins are confessed with the intention of forsaking them (so as to overcome them), the individual is not abiding in spiritual death.​

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#2. Punishment of sins in earthly courts vs. a sin that leads to hellfire (Matthew 5:22). Jesus described to us the difference between death-sins vs. non-death sins in Matthew 5:22.​

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“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court; and whoever speaks [contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother, ‘Raca (You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the supreme court (Sanhedrin); and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell.” (Matthew 5:22) (AMP).​

The words in blue above are “non-death sins” because they are punishment in earthly courts. The words in red above is a “death sin” because it is punishment in hellfire in the afterlife.​

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#3. Accidental manslaughter and being able to flee to cities of refuge (Deuteronomy 19:1-13); Contrast this with intentional murder which results in capital punishment (See: Deuteronomy 19:21, Numbers 35:31).​

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#4. Adam’s Inherited Sin (Involving babies that die).​

I believe Adam’s Inherited Sin Leads all mankind to physically die. Adam’s sin also opened the door for all men and women to fall into spiritual death and condemnation. But we know according to Scripture and the goodness of God that if a baby dies in this world, they are saved. For King David knew that he would see his unborn child again (2 Samuel 12:23), and Jesus says that children are of the Kingdom of God (Luke 18:16). So how are they saved if Adam brought death? Well, Jesus reversed the curse of spiritual death involving the sin of Adam. The Promised Messiah was the promise of God of salvation to men. So if a baby dies, they will be saved. God is not willing that any should perish. Jesus died for our sins because God loves us. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. But the point here is that if babies are saved, and they are doomed to die physically at some point in their life (either as a baby or an adult) by Adam’s sin, we should realize that the stain of spiritual death from Adam did not take hold onto the lives of babies because of the Messiah. So the sin of Adam passing down spiritual death does not harm a baby. It’s a sin not unto death. Now, the fallen nature was passed down, and thus when that baby grows up, they will sin when they are faced with the knowledge of good and evil. But this is why Jesus came. To set the captives free from sin and death. For Jesus not only came to forgive our sins, but He came to give us a new heart, and new desires to live a new life in Him. A life that is not enslaved to grievous sin that brings spiritual death. Side Note: Now, did spiritual death take hold upon Adam? I believe it did because God said that he would die in the day he would eat of the tree (he was commanded to not eat). Did Adam drop dead physically when he ate of the wrong tree? Surely not. So this means Adam died spiritually. Also, I believe the promise of the Messiah Jesus reversed the curse of Adam. For Jesus took on our sins in the Garden and died in our place for our sins. This was spiritual. So if Jesus never died for our sins, all of mankind would be doomed spiritually (including babies that die). Jesus is the Savior. Jesus deserves all the glory.​

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#5. The Command to Be Baptized.​

Please do not misunderstand me on this one here. Believers should be baptized as soon as they placed their trust in Jesus Christ. It’s a part of the great commission by our Lord Jesus Christ. But what if circumstances in life did not make this possible? Clearly the thief on the cross was not water baptized and yet he was saved. Paul says Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). If it was essential to salvation, then why would Paul say something like this? In 1 Peter 3:21: Peter says baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. If you were to turn to 2 Corinthians 7:1, you would see that it uses similar wording ("filthiness of the flesh") that is clearly in reference to sin. So Peter is saying that baptism is not for the putting away of "sin" [i.e. filth of the flesh]. In other words, baptism is not a command that leads to spiritual death if one is not able to fulfill it in this life. Again, I want to stress that a believer should naturally have a natural heart of obedience and desire to be water baptized and they should do so right away if they are able. But if they did not live long after being a believer, or they are unable to find the right believers to be baptized by in this life and they die (not having been baptized), they will not be condemned by failing to do so (At least according to the testimony of Scripture). (Important Note: Yes, I am aware of Acts 2:38, and Acts 22:16; Please see my post here in another thread for an explanation on these two verses).​

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I believe that the passage talking about a sin unto death is saying that "There is a sin that a person carries to the grave, that they die in their sin, and for that, we are not to pray", it is not stating there is a deadly sin or more deadly sin. For we know that the cross covers all sin from birth to death:

Heb 9:27-28 We die only once, and then we are judged. So Christ died only once to take away the sins of many people.

If sin is truly deadly, i.e. has offended God eternally, then it will be carried to the grave.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Common Objections #1.

Question: - How can there be minor sins that don't condemn if James 2:10 says that if we offend in one point we break all of the Law?

Answer:

Well, I believe James 2:10 is referring to the Royal Law of love or the Law of liberty (Which is New Covenant Law or a part of the Law of Christ). So James 2:10 is in context to loving others. That is what James is talking about. The Law of loving others. For the brethren James is writing to was having respect of persons in that they were showing only favor to the rich brethren and not showing any favor to the poor brethren. They were not being loving. Hence, why James said what he did. They were offending in the point in regards to the law of love, and not just any Law. In other words, they are breaking all of God’s laws if they are offending in one point in context to the law of love.

But you or another might protest and say that all the Law and the prophets hinge on the greatest two commandments (Which is to love) (Matthew 22:36-40).

So this sounds like an, “Ah, ha, I gotcha!” kind of moment.
So this truly looks like an open and shut case.

But is it?

Remember the Canaanite woman who kept being pushy with Jesus? (See: Matthew 15:21-28).

Why is her story important with this topic?

Well, there are three reasons why.

#1. God Said It, and That’s The Final Word.
#2. Rules of Exception.
#3. Real World Examples.

I. God Said It, and That’s The Final Word.

“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.” (Matthew 15:24-26).

If this was all that was written in the Canaanite woman’s story, we could quickly assume that there was no other word to conclude on the matter and God’s word was final and that was it. But what if Scripture spoke elsewhere about another truth that explained more? Anyways, it is good thing we have the full story so we don’t have to look elsewhere in God’s Word, but the point here is that the Canaanite woman did not take Jesus’ words as being the final word, but she kept pushing and seeking His help based on a truth she knew. My point here is that while James 2:10, and Matthew 22:36-40 sound definitive and the last word on the subject, it is hardly the case when we look at other verses honestly and plainly.

II. Rules of Exception.

“And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.” (Matthew 15:27).

The unexpected happened. Here was a woman who offered a truth that was true. She gave a clause of exception. We know that Jesus said great was her faith and her daughter was made whole that very hour. But imagine if she just took Jesus’ word as the final authority and felt that was it? She would move on and be sad and without hope for her daughter. Good thing she knew about other truths in life. Good thing she new there were rules of exception to what Jesus was saying. Thus, we have to look at James 2:10 in light of other verses and real life that there may be a rule of exception (and I believe there is).

III. Real World Examples.

Jesus gave a real world example to the Canaanite woman.

“But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.”
(Matthew 15:26).​

The Canaanite woman replied also with a real world example that complimented Jesus’ example.

“And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.”
(Matthew 15:27).​

Jesus’ reply was not,

“Hold your peace! Only the Son can make parables, or life examples, and not the children of this world!”
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However, Jesus’ reply to the Canaanite woman was…

“O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.” (Matthew 15:28).

So Jesus accepted her parable or real world example. This means we can make parables or real world examples, too. Why is this important to your denial of “sins that do not lead unto death” outside of 1 John 5:16-17? Well, because life teaches us that there are crimes in this life that do not deserve the death penalty. This is important to understand because the Lord accepts parables or real world examples from us as acceptable truth and He looks at it as our having faith and trust in Him. For God has established certain truths in the real world to also guide us and to confirm what His Word says. If this was not the case, then Jesus would condemn the Canaanite woman’s extended parable.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Common Objections #2.

Question: - How can there be minor sins that do not condemn when Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death?

Answer:

Paul in context referred to sins that lead to spiritual death in his letter to the Romans in Romans 1:28-32. His focus was to get the believer to obey and not to justify sins.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe that the passage talking about a sin unto death is saying that "There is a sin that a person carries to the grave, that they die in their sin, and for that, we are not to pray", it is not stating there is a deadly sin or more deadly sin. For we know that the cross covers all sin from birth to death:

Heb 9:27-28 We die only once, and then we are judged. So Christ died only once to take away the sins of many people.

If sin is truly deadly, i.e. has offended God eternally, then it will be carried to the grave.

The Bible teaches that past sins only are forgiven.

The Bible teaches only past sins are forgiven us (not future sins).

Besides, how do you define the sin not unto death?

 

[Michie]

The Bible teaches that past sins only are forgiven.

The Bible teaches only past sins are forgiven us (not future sins).

Besides, how do you define the sin not unto death?

Mortal. Venial.

 

[Basil the Great]

All I can tell you is that the Early Church took certain sins very seriously. I recall reading one example where a Christian killed someone, I think in a fight, and was forced to kneel down in the back of the Church for a long time and was banned from Communion for 10 years.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Sins Not Unto Death:

Important Note:
Please keep in mind that I am not trying to trivialize sin. I believe after we are saved by God's grace that we must live holy as a part of God's plan of salvation. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Believers cannot justify sin that leads to spiritual death, condemnation, or hellfire. For I believe we should obey the Lord in all things. For I want to stress that there are grievous sins (or death sins) like murder, hate, adultery, lying, etc. that can lead even a believer to being condemned in the Lake of Fire if such sins are not repented of (i.e. if these sins are not confessed or forsaken).
Anyways,...

​

Here is my biblical case for sins that do not lead unto death:

​

#1. 1 John 5:17 mentions the "sin not unto death."
In context to 1 John 5: This would be talking about confessed grievous sin that one is striving to overcome with the Lord's help (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 13:14). In 1 John 5, the brethren are praying for this believer to have victory (life) over their sin as this believer confesses their sin (Note: Grievous sin are sins the Bible warns with punishment by hellfire, or spiritual death, etc.; These would be sins like murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, etc.). If these sins are confessed with the intention of forsaking them (so as to overcome them), the individual is not abiding in spiritual death.

#2. Paul ignores the warnings of the Spirit and Psalms 19:12.
Psalms 19:12 says, "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults." I believe these would be faults of character or minor errors that a person might make with people. Example: A person may not be a great listener, and they do not allow others to speak like they should. By not listening to others may come off a little like they do not care (even though they care in their own way or a different way). Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit warned Paul not to go. He was still determined to go because he loved His fellow Jews and wanted them to know the love of Jesus. The Spirit told the brethren that Paul will be imprisoned by his going to Jerusalem. The brethren warned Paul not to go. They were in tears and loved him and begged him not to go. But Paul did not listen. He would not hear them. He did not want to hear it. Fault of character. Hidden fault. Minor error of his character. It is not something that condemned him (See Acts of the Apostles 21, and read this article here by Ray Stedman; Note: There is even a better write up than this one by Bible commentator James Boice here; Please keep in mind I do not share their views on Soteriology, though; I merely agree with their view on what happened with Paul in Acts of the Apostles 21).

#3. The Command to Be Baptized.
Paul says Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). If it was essential to salvation, then why would Paul say something like this? In 1 Peter 3:21: Peter says baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. If you were to turn to 2 Corinthians 7:1, you would see that it uses similar wording ("filthiness of the flesh") that is clearly in reference to sin. So Peter is saying that baptism is not for the putting away of "sin" [i.e. filth of the flesh]. In other words, baptism is not a command that if disobeyed, leads to spiritual death.

#4. The Least of These Commands in Matthew 5:19.
We know that 1 John 5:16-17 declares that there is a sin not unto death. So if this is the case, we should expect to see other testimonies of this kind of thing in God's Word.

“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19).
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This was said by the Lord Jesus at the sermon on the mount. Jesus was not referring to the 613 Torah laws but He was referring to the New Commands He was giving at the sermon on the mount, etc.; Granted, I am not encouraging anyone to break the Lord's commands (even the commands that do not appear to be a major violation of loving God and others), but our Lord's words have to still hold true in Matthew 5:19. Meaning, there are going to be believers who are in the Kingdom and they taught others that they could break the least of Jesus' commandments. How can they be in the kingdom?

Anyways, what could be a possible least command that Jesus is referring to? Well, one possible example would be the command to Rejoice when men persecute you or falsely accuse you of evil in Matthew 5:11-12. For it does not seem like a major violation of loving God and others if we fail to obey this instruction.

#5. Punishment of sins in earthly courts vs. a sin that leads to hellfire (Matthew 5:22). Jesus described to us the difference between death-sins vs. non-death sins in Matthew 5:22.

“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court; and whoever speaks [contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother, ‘Raca (You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the supreme court (Sanhedrin); and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell.” (Matthew 5:22) (AMP).
​

The words in blue above are “non-death sins” because they are punishment in earthly courts. The words in red above is a “death sin” because it is punishment in hellfire in the afterlife.

#6. Accidental manslaughter and being able to flee to cities of refuge (Deuteronomy 19:1-13); Contrast this with intentional murder which results in capital punishment (See: Deuteronomy 19:21, Numbers 35:31).

#7. Adam’s Inherited Sin (Involving babies that die).
I believe Adam’s Inherited Sin Leads all mankind to physically die. Adam’s sin also opened the door for all men and women to fall into spiritual death and condemnation. But we know according to Scripture and the goodness of God that if a baby dies in this world, they are saved. For King David knew that he would see his unborn child again (2 Samuel 12:23), and Jesus says that children are of the Kingdom of God (Luke 18:16). So how are they saved if Adam brought death? Well, Jesus reversed the curse of spiritual death involving the sin of Adam. The Promised Messiah was the promise of God of salvation to men. So if a baby dies, they will be saved. God is not willing that any should perish. Jesus died for our sins because God loves us. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. But the point here is that if babies are saved, and they are doomed to die physically at some point in their life (either as a baby or an adult) by Adam’s sin, we should realize that the stain of spiritual death from Adam did not take hold onto the lives of babies because of the Messiah. So the sin of Adam passing down spiritual death does not harm a baby. It’s a sin not unto death. Now, the fallen nature was passed down, and thus when that baby grows up, they will sin when they are faced with the knowledge of good and evil. But this is why Jesus came. To set the captives free from sin and death. For Jesus not only came to forgive our sins, but He came to give us a new heart, and new desires to live a new life in Him. A life that is not enslaved to grievous sin that brings spiritual death. Side Note: Now, did spiritual death take hold upon Adam? I believe it did because God said that he would die in the day he would eat of the tree (he was commanded to not eat). Did Adam drop dead physically when he ate of the wrong tree? Surely not. So this means Adam died spiritually. Also, I believe the promise of the Messiah Jesus reversed the curse of Adam. For Jesus took on our sins in the Garden and died in our place for our sins. This was spiritual. So if Jesus never died for our sins, all of mankind would be doomed spiritually (including babies that die). Jesus is the Savior. Jesus deserves all the glory.​

Thanks for posting but would it not be more clear to list the one and only sin that leads to eternal death. Unbelief. This is sinning unto death.
Blessings

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thanks for posting but would it not be more clear to list the one and only sin that leads to eternal death. Unbelief. This is sinning unto death.
Blessings

But this thread topic is about sins that do not lead unto death, though.

Anyways, may God bless you, as well.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

All I can tell you is that the Early Church took certain sins very seriously. I recall reading one example where a Christian killed someone, I think in a fight, and was forced to kneel down in the back of the Church for a long time and was banned from Communion for 10 years.

Yes, I believe God’s people should take sin very seriously, as well. I believe most sins (sins that lead unto death or to hell) should be confessed and forsaken (with the intent of overcoming them in this life). I believe that Christians must live holy at some point after they are saved by God’s grace or they are not going to make it into the Kingdom. Grace is what gets us there or helps us to get to a point whereby we can overcome grievous sin.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

But this thread topic is about sins that do not lead unto death, though.

Anyways, may God bless you, as well.

I know however, it is as if you are condoning sin. This is why scripture gets right to the point. Unbelief. You are obscuring it. All sin leads to death. You have attempted to repackage and I am calling foul.
All in love though. Iron must sharpen iron. Sorry I know you have put a lot of thought into this.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

For I believe we should obey the Lord in all things.

so glad to see that you keep all ten of GODS commandments not just nine of them based on the above statement

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

The Bible teaches that past sins only are forgiven.

The Bible teaches only past sins are forgiven us (not future sins).

Besides, how do you define the sin not unto death?

I would ask you to consider your doctrine that only past sins are forgiven. Please look at the following passage:

1Jn 1:7-10 But if we live in the light, as God does, we share in life with each other. And the blood of his Son Jesus washes all our sins away. If we say that we have not sinned, we are fooling ourselves, and the truth isn't in our hearts. But if we confess our sins to God, he can always be trusted to forgive us and take our sins away. If we say that we have not sinned, we make God a liar, and his message isn't in our hearts.

1Jn 2:1-2 My children, I am writing this so that you won't sin. But if you do sin, Jesus Christ always does the right thing, and he will speak to the Father for us. Christ is the sacrifice that takes away our sins and the sins of all the world's people.

1 John tells us the truth, that we can sin, post-salvation, and still be forgiven. Be very careful because your doctrine will lock up salvation for people that need forgiveness.

As for this:

Besides, how do you define the sin not unto death?

It is very basic, "A person may commit a sin, and it does not lead to their death, we are to pray for them to be restored", "but if they commit a sin that leads to them dying, we are not to pray for that, they have been judged by God".

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I would ask you to consider your doctrine that only past sins are forgiven. Please look at the following passage:

1Jn 1:7-10 But if we live in the light, as God does, we share in life with each other. And the blood of his Son Jesus washes all our sins away. If we say that we have not sinned, we are fooling ourselves, and the truth isn't in our hearts. But if we confess our sins to God, he can always be trusted to forgive us and take our sins away. If we say that we have not sinned, we make God a liar, and his message isn't in our hearts.

1Jn 2:1-2 My children, I am writing this so that you won't sin. But if you do sin, Jesus Christ always does the right thing, and he will speak to the Father for us. Christ is the sacrifice that takes away our sins and the sins of all the world's people.

1 John tells us the truth, that we can sin, post-salvation, and still be forgiven. Be very careful because your doctrine will lock up salvation for people that need forgiveness.

Several problems with your interpretation on 1 John 1 here.

First, 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So if future sin is forgiven you, then why on Earth do you need to confess of sin to be forgiven of it according to 1 John 1:9? In other words, 1 John 1:9 is proof against your future sin is forgiven theology (Which gives a person a license to sin under God’s grace - See: Jude 1:4).

Second, as for 1 John 1:8: Well, what is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

“If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin,
we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). Again, how can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

You can say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

Three, you completely side stepped 1 John 1:7. It says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. So you have to walk in the light to be saved because the blood of Jesus cleansing us is obviously in reference to our salvation. The indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11 tells us that: “walking in the light” = “loving your brother.” So if we do not love our brother and we hate him, no eternal life abides in us (1 John 3:15), and we are not of God (1 John 3:10).

As for this:

…how do you define the sin not unto death?

It is very basic, "A person may commit a sin, and it does not lead to their death, we are to pray for them to be restored", "but if they commit a sin that leads to them dying, we are not to pray for that, they have been judged by God".

The Context of 1st John
(From Within the Epistle Itself):

What does John mean by “death?”

It is unlikely John means the physical death common to all humankind, whether righteous or unrighteous. With the exception of the final generation when Jesus returns, all humans will inevitably die. In the only other occurrence of "death" in the epistle (1 John 3:14) John claims true believers have already "passed over out of (ek) death into (eis) life." Those who do not love the brethren are already "abiding in death" (note the Greek present tense – an ongoing state of abiding “in death”). In the Greek clause both “life” and “death” have the definite article; that is, “the life” and “the death.” John is referring to two different spheres or realms: one of life and one of death.

Elsewhere in 1 John we read that those who love the saints “abide in the light” (1 John 2:10), are “born of God (1 John 4:7) and God abides in them (1 John 4:12). In comparison those who hate their brothers and sisters “are in darkness until now” (1 John 2:9), “walk in the darkness” (1 John 2:11) and “do not know God” (1 John 4:8). John is contrasting two different spheres, one characterized by light and life, the other by darkness and death. What determines in which realm one lives is one’s relationship to God and the community of faith. 1 John 3:14 is parallel to John 5:24 ("he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed over out of the death into the life”) where the exact same terminology is found.

John uses terms like “life,” “death,” “light” and “darkness” metaphorically to contrast two different manners of living; two different kinds of character. Those who love God and His children already live in light and life. Those who do not even now dwell in the realms of darkness and death. Nothing is said of whether one can change the “realm” in which one lives.

What does John mean by “ask for life” in 1 John 5:16?

In 1 John “everlasting life” is what God has promised to true believers (1 John 2:25). Who are these true believers? Those who love God and the brethren have already passed over from the realm of death to that of life (1 John 3:14). God has given those who love Him life that is found only in His Son (1 John 5:11) and those who believe in the name of the Son already have “everlasting life” (1 John 5:13). Indeed, God sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might have life even now (1 John 4:9). When John speaks of life he does not mean the mortal existence all humans have between birth and death, but the “everlasting life” from God that is found only in the Son, a life we can possess and experience in some sense now, though its fullness awaits the Age to Come.

In comparison the one who hates his brother does not have eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15) and the one who does not have the Son already lacks life (1 John 5:12). Though one continues to exist, one does not in any sense possess the everlasting life of the Age to Come. Those who have the Son and love the brethren already have “life” (1 John 2:25)(1 John 3:14) (1 John 5:11-13).

John’s epistle begins with the thematic statement about the “Word of life” (1 John 1:1-3), the life of the Father manifested in the historical person of Jesus Christ and now proclaimed as the message of “everlasting life.” In this epistle the term “life” is a way to sum up what God has done for believers including “being in the light” (1 John 1:5), the forgiveness of sins (1 John 1:9-2:2) (1 John 4:10), the granting of everlasting life (1 John 1:2) (1 John 2:25) (1 John 3:14) (1 John 5:11-13) (1 John 5:20), fellowship with one another (1 John 1:7), an anointing (1 John 2:20), love from the Father (1 John 3:1), the status of “children of God” (1 John 3:1-2) (1 John 3:10) (1 John 5:2), the hope of becoming like Him (1 John 3:2-3), the gift of the Spirit (1 John 3:24) (1 John 4:13), being “born of God” (1 John 5:1), and our victory over the world (1 John 5:4-5). John summarizes his message with the statement, “and this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son”. Compare 1 John 5:11 with 1 John 5:20.

Historical & Literary Context:

John was writing to a congregation (or possibly several small ones) experiencing turmoil caused by doctrinal disputes with former members (hereafter referred to as ‘secessionists’), individuals who had left the church and were teaching heretical doctrines (1 John 2:18-28) (1 John 4:1-6) (1 John 5:6-7). This problem went beyond discouraged or disgruntled individuals who had simply left the church. Some of them were attempting to propagate their false teachings to those still in the assembly (1 John 2:26) (1 John 4:1-3) (2 John 1:7), raising the possibility that some members of John’s congregations would be deceived and also leave the assembly.

In his opening section John lays out the main claims of the secessionists. They claimed to have “fellowship with Jesus” and to walk with Him (1 John 1:6), “to have no sin” (1 John 1:8), and that they “have not sinned” (1 John 1:10). In the same passage John provides some of the details of the controversies in play. To their claim of “fellowship with Jesus” John responds that those walking with Him “love one another” and Jesus' blood “is cleansing us from all sin” (1 John 1:7). By implication the secessionists were failing to love the brethren. As to having no sin, John points out the necessity of confessing sin and thereby receiving forgiveness (1 John 1:9). And as to the assertion they “have not sinned,” John cites this as evidence that His word is not in them (1 John 1:10).

The secessionists boasted that they have come “to know Him” (1 John 2:4). John refutes this with the charge they are “not keeping His commandments,” the logic being that if you know Him you will keep his commandments. They boasted that they are “abiding in him (1 John 2:6). If so, John retorts, they should be “walking in the same manner” as did Jesus. The secessionists emphasized that they are “in the light” yet, as John points out, they hate their brothers and sisters (1 John 2:9). When John speaks of “commandments” he is not thinking of the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic Law, but of God’s commands to love Him, believe in His Son and to love one another. In other words, the community of faith (1 John 3:23) (1 John 4:21) (1 John 5:2-3). Likewise “walking in the manner Jesus walked” refers above all to following his example of self-sacrificial love for one’s brothers and sisters (1 John 3:16).

Source:
Gospeltoallnations.org
(Please take note that this link is no longer active; But it was active at one time).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

so glad to see that you keep all ten of GODS commandments not just nine of them based on the above statement

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Okay. You wondered into the wrong thread discussion, my friend. This thread is not about keeping the Sabbath command (of which I believe is no longer binding upon the believer today).

Anyways, may God bless you (even if we may disagree on Scripture).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I know however, it is as if you are condoning sin. This is why scripture gets right to the point. Unbelief. You are obscuring it. All sin leads to death. You have attempted to repackage and I am calling foul.
All in love though. Iron must sharpen iron. Sorry I know you have put a lot of thought into this.

Well, that’s a first. I am not condoning sin. I believe without holiness, no man shall see the Lord as Hebrews 12:14 says. I believe most Christians justify sin these days and I believe that is wrong. If you were to read the note within this thread, I am telling people to obey the Lord in all things (including what they might consider sins that do not lead unto death). But most who like to condone sin make excuses that it is impossible to obey God and say that you cannot be perfect so as to be saved. They think all sin is the same and so they lay impossible burdens upon the brethren as the alternative (just so that they can defend Belief Alone-ism in Jesus that can lead to an immoral lifestyle). But I don’t believe God calls us to be perfect in character order to be saved in this life (even though God calls us to be perfect).

Please understand that I believe lying, hating, lusting after women, cussing etc. are all sins that need to be confessed and forsaken otherwise one will face the punishment of hellfire. But you must understand that people who may struggle to overcome sin may find that being perfect in every way is far beyond what they are even able to handle. They need to mature and grow stronger in the Lord to eventually overcome. Besides, I did not write the Scriptures. If indeed the Bible was entirely silent on this matter, then I would have no Scriptural backing to prove my case. But I do have a biblical case and I have made it. It’s up to the reader of God’s Word to pray and study such things (Whereby they would accept them). I mean, do you honestly believe that a believer who goes 5 miles over the speed limit will be condemned by God if he loves God with all his heart, and he loves his neighbor?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I would ask you to consider your doctrine that only past sins are forgiven. Please look at the following passage:

1Jn 1:7-10 But if we live in the light, as God does, we share in life with each other. And the blood of his Son Jesus washes all our sins away. If we say that we have not sinned, we are fooling ourselves, and the truth isn't in our hearts. But if we confess our sins to God, he can always be trusted to forgive us and take our sins away. If we say that we have not sinned, we make God a liar, and his message isn't in our hearts.

1Jn 2:1-2 My children, I am writing this so that you won't sin. But if you do sin, Jesus Christ always does the right thing, and he will speak to the Father for us. Christ is the sacrifice that takes away our sins and the sins of all the world's people.

1 John tells us the truth, that we can sin, post-salvation, and still be forgiven. Be very careful because your doctrine will lock up salvation for people that need forgiveness.

As for this:



It is very basic, "A person may commit a sin, and it does not lead to their death, we are to pray for them to be restored", "but if they commit a sin that leads to them dying, we are not to pray for that, they have been judged by God".

Oh, and one more thing: How would the brethren know a person is committing the sin not unto death whereby they would know to pray for them to give them life? What does life mean exactly in 1 John 5? What kind of life are they hoping to impart to this believer by their praying for this one who is committing the sin not unto death? I believe the life that they are hoping to impart to this believer is victory over their sin (Which means eternal life for them). They are praying so that this Christian who is struggling with a particular sin to have eternal life and win over this sin. For Jesus warns in Matthew 5:28-30 that just looking upon a woman in lust is grounds to be cast bodily into hellfire. But in your view: If a person’s future sins are forgiven them, praying for a brother or sister to have life by their committing sin does not make a whole lot of sense. There are many believers today who sin and yet they don’t die right away. So this is why your interpretation does not really add up in light of what is going on in the context of 1 John 5.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thanks for posting but would it not be more clear to list the one and only sin that leads to eternal death. Unbelief. This is sinning unto death.
Blessings

Take for example accidental manslaughter mentioned in the Old Testament. You do realize that they were allowed to escape to a city of refuge and live. If this is not a sin not unto death?

 

[TheWhat?]

If the penalty of the covenant were the dividing line between mortal and venial, for christians:

1. There are a number of scenarios that can conceivably land you in mortal sin involuntarily, and frequently
2. Why bother with christianity if the old covenant is still in effect?

 

[iLearn]

Sin is not to be struggled with. No one can overcome sin by his own strength. Jesus said to learn humility the correct way is by imitating his humility, not to be a dumb doormat, and one needs to carry his cross daily or meaning die to self will on a daily basis.