Unity Between Catholic and Protestant Christians

[prodromos]

It is a real shame that the position of the Orthodox church is that those outside of their particular faith are detestable, outcast dogs who are just feeding on garbage; and that would include people of about every other Protestant, Pentecostal, and Charismatic church!

You don't hold the true faith. The Bible instructs us that if you will not accept correction by the Church, that we should treat as the heathen or the tax collector (Matt 18:17)

 

[Chris V++]

My own view (something along the lines of what Bishop Ryle wrote in a tract called The True Church) - is that there are true christians within both Protestanism and Roman Catholicism, and that is were the unity resides - one in the Spirit, not in some sort of organisational structure.

I believe they are calling this the 'invisible church' heresy.

 

[Jeshu]

This is where true unity based on whether a believer is truly converted to Christ or not, and is showing the fruits of it. The Scripture says that there is only one Christ, one faith, and one baptism, and that should be the basis for unity. Paul said this in the face of the division between factions in the Corinthian church. He said that we all drink from the same Spirit. And He is the Holy Spirit as described in the New Testament. This means that He is not limited to the Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Pentecostal, or Charismatic faith groups. He is there in all of them and is the catalyst for true unity in the faith.

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...stant-christians.8148575/reply?quote=74707195

True faithful believers are those who confess and believe in Jesus Christ as their saviour and are baptised in the name of the Father, son and holy Spirit. They can find unity in the love of their saviour and in the breaking of the bread and drinking of the wine in remembrance of (having communion with) Him. Where there are two or three who confess His name as Lord they can share the bread and cup together regardless what Church they are from.

All praise to our Lord for unity.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Not to mention a Protestant cannot commune in the Roman Mass because through it, Jesus' sacrifice is offered in such a manner so that the sacrement itself confers propitiation.

Protestants believe that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was the one and only sacrifice and there is no further sacrifice for sin. Catholics believe that Christ is sacrificed in every Mass, so for them it is a continued sacrifice.

 

[DNB]

So there has to be another basis on which unity can be achieved other than denominational union. I believe that unity can be achieved only when each acknowledge that the only basis for unity is that we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, who died on the cross for us, and who rose again to give us eternal life.

There are others who are working towards unity between Jews, Christians and Islam. I don't see that happening either, because the Jews don't believe that Jesus Christ is their Messiah, and Muslims believe that every Jew has to be killed in order for Muslim resurrection can happen on the last day, and they have a record of killing Christians as well. But I guess dreams are free...

Yes, exactly, fundamentally speaking, we are all soteriologically different (for arguments sake). But personally, as far as trying to reconcile the differences between Christianity and other religions, I'm steadfast in believing that they all must accept Jesus Christ as God's first-born of creation, and first-born from the dead, King of King, and Lord of Lords, Saviour of all mankind.

 

[royal priest]

My own view (something along the lines of what Bishop Ryle wrote in a tract called The True Church) - is that there are true christians within both Protestanism and Roman Catholicism, and that is were the unity resides - one in the Spirit, not in some sort of organisational structure.

I don't think Ryle actually said what you think you read. At least, not in that tract.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You don't hold the true faith. The Bible instructs us that if you will not accept correction by the Church, that we should treat as the heathen or the tax collector (Matt 18:17)

That is a twist of the Scripture out of its context. The Scripture deals with a person who has sinned in such a way that it could being the church into disrepute, and one person has informed him of it privately, but not listened to, so the person has taken another person with him to repeat the concern, and the offender still has not listened, so it has been brought before the church, and if the offender will not take correction from the church then he should be excluded.

This has nothing to do with being initiated into a particular religious organisation, and your twist of Scripture implies that all Protestants not part of your religious organisations are to be be treated as heathen and the despised Roman tax collectors of early First Century Jerusalem.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Please read closely the story of the Samaritans beginning at Acts 8:14.

When you are finished, take a shot at this question:

Was Simon the sorcerer a Christian?

All the Apostles of Christ died before the end of the First Century AD, so the laying on of hands from an Apostle of Christ cannot happen today.

 

[HTacianas]

All the Apostles of Christ died before the end of the First Century AD, so the laying on of hands from an Apostle of Christ cannot happen today.

They selected their successors. And that continual succession lives on today.

 

[royal priest]

That is a twist of the Scripture out of its context. The Scripture deals with a person who has sinned in such a way that it could being the church into disrepute, and one person has informed him of it privately, but not listened to, so the person has taken another person with him to repeat the concern, and the offender still has not listened, so it has been brought before the church, and if the offender will not take correction from the church then he should be excluded.

This has nothing to do with being initiated into a particular religious organisation, and your twist of Scripture implies that all Protestants not part of your religious organisations are to be be treated as heathen and the despised Roman tax collectors of early First Century Jerusalem.

This is what happened to Martin Luther. Actually, he and the other original reformers had multiple anathemas pronounced upon them by the Council of Trent.

 

[Chris V++]

All the Apostles of Christ died before the end of the First Century AD, so the laying on of hands from an Apostle of Christ cannot happen today.

I think they on the passing of the Spirit like a chain of custody. e..g Peter directly instilled the spirit in Person A, who then laid hands and passed in on to B and so on till this very day. I guess during the schism the spirit left all the carriers in the west due to the departure from the true faith. So only the Orthodox have the Spirit to give. But then why recognize other baptisms? Doesn't quite mesh.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

Unity has to be in Christ and of the Holy Spirit or it is not unity at all, merely conformity. We are seeing a lot of the latter these days.

I will not consider a call to unity that demands conformity to church, denomination, or organisation.

If we all become one with Christ and the Father we will automatically become one with each other.

On the other hand we are all united by the call of the gospel and faith in Jesus Christ whether we like it or not.

Our approach to communion is this, "Let each one examine themselves and so let them eat of that bread and drink of that cup of the Lord."

This we do, warning every participant of the dangers of condemnation should we partake in an unworthy and unbelieving manner.

If unity depends on doctrine or denomination it will never happen.

 

[SkyWriting]

In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.

Not so. There is more religious difference in your immediate family than between C&P.

 

[lsume]

I have a question:

How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?

This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers. This is why I am bringing up the question in a more appropriate forum where those who are concerned about this can have a free discussion about the issues.

In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.

I think that there are Catholics who do not ascribe to the particular beliefs you outlined. Of course on a case by case basis, each individual has his/her own beliefs. I think there was a long time when Catholics were oppressed in reading The Bible on their own. I think when any group teaches that only their group is going to Heaven, there is a problem. That teaching is not only dangerous but potentially very hazardous. Your point is well taken in switching venues. Anyone who seeks God The Father, will find. That promise is in The Bible and seems very straightforward. I think seek with all of your heart and with all of your mind and with all of your soul is a command with the promise of hope. There is a great deal more to being born again than most are aware. You might read Numbers 16:29 in the KJV. It is the place with the first use of the word “Visitation”. Please read the entire story that surrounds that word.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I have a question:

How can Catholics and Protestants have true unity while the Catholic church believes it is the only true church and that to be fully accepted as a true Christian a Protestant must convert to Catholicism, accept the Pope as their spiritual leader, and subscribe to Catholic doctrine and theology?

This issue came up on the Catholic forum, and I felt quite limited in discussing this because that forum is protected for Catholic believers. This is why I am bringing up the question in a more appropriate forum where those who are concerned about this can have a free discussion about the issues.

In my opinion, most Protestants, Pentecostals, and Charismatics wouldn't dream in a million years to even consider converting to Catholicism, so I cannot see any possibility of any form of unity between Catholics and Protestants. They are as totally different as chalk and cheese.

Spot on. The Roman Catholic organisation is more likely to merge with Islam than with Protestant Christianity.

 

[GodLovesCats]

See this is the exclusive elitist stuff that makes unity difficult. Orthodox think they own communion. Protestants have been baptized into the church and are saved by grace through faith. Those verses don’t apply to Protestants, they refer to unbelievers or believers in sin. Imagine the hubris to think that only your church denomination could administer the Lord’s supper. Wow

Protestant denominations vary on baptism. Presbyterians believe it is only by sprinkling water on the hair regardless of how old the person is, while evangelicals, Pentecostals, and Baptists refuse to do it that way and always dunk believers in small pools. CF has many threads about the timing because non-charismatic churches ignore the fact that you can't be saved by getting your hair wet and baptize babies thinking it is the key to salvation, not actually believing in Christ.

 

[PaulCyp1]

It isn't a "belief", but a historical fact that no Christian Church but the Catholic Church existed for the first 1,000 years of Christianity. At that point the Orthodox churches broke away from the original Church, and the first Protestant churches didn't break away from the Catholic Church until 500 years after that. And it is a biblical fact that Jesus Christ founded one Church, said it was to remain one, and promised that one Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". He wanted us to have "all truth", not a mix of truth and untruth, which is why He said His Church was to remain one. Truth cannot conflict with truth, so conflicting beliefs necessarily mean false beliefs. Jesus created a Church with unity. Proud and misguided men destroyed the unity of Christianity by created their own churches, in open defiance of the plainly stated will of Jesus Christ concerning His followers, which was and still is "that they all may be ONE, even as I and My heavenly Father are ONE", destroying the unity of Christianity. It is these renegade churches that need to address the disunity in Christianity, since they are the cause of it.

 

[prodromos]

Protestants believe that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was the one and only sacrifice and there is no further sacrifice for sin. Catholics believe that Christ is sacrificed in every Mass, so for them it is a continued sacrifice.

You said you studied Catholicism yet you make this false claim?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

As I see it the protestant disbelief in a specific and established Church is also a barrier for unity. I don't like the Protestant system where anyone if they feel so inclined can start a totally new Church body because they felt the spirit calling them to do so. It creates more disunity than those Churches who insist on their closed communion do.

But this sort of a meaningless criticism. Protestants are the way they are based on their sincere beliefs, same with Catholics, same with Orthodox. Unity, if each party is sincere cannot therefore happen without either a radical reconception of Christianity, the conversion people from one to another or the destruction or diminishment of one or more these groups.

 

[prodromos]

At that point the Orthodox churches broke away from the original Church,

It was Cardinal Humbert who excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople and all who agreed with him, and whether he had that authority or not, the excommunication was recognised by all the subsequent Popes, so it was not the Orthodox who left the Church, rather it was Rome who seperated from the rest of the Church.