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Can Calvinism be proven?

HTacianas

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Suppose a person is saved, by whatever criteria you choose to define it, and he sets out to prove his salvation.

Since no saved person could willingly sin against God, he purposely sets out to sin. He snatches his neighbor's rake in the middle of the night and runs off with it.

Just to be sure, he resolves to never to confess his sin to man nor God.

What is his status from the foundation of the world?
 

Dave L

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Suppose a person is saved, by whatever criteria you choose to define it, and he sets out to prove his salvation.

Since no saved person could willingly sin against God, he purposely sets out to sin. He snatches his neighbor's rake in the middle of the night and runs off with it.

Just to be sure, he resolves to never to confess his sin to man nor God.

What is his status from the foundation of the world?
To a Calvinist his faith is proof God saved him. He could not believe otherwise.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Suppose a person is saved, by whatever criteria you choose to define it, and he sets out to prove his salvation.

Since no saved person could willingly sin against God, he purposely sets out to sin. He snatches his neighbor's rake in the middle of the night and runs off with it.

Just to be sure, he resolves to never to confess his sin to man nor God.

What is his status from the foundation of the world?
His neighbor comes over and finds his rake in the garage. God exposed his sin which leads him to an apology and restitution. Then he suffers condemnation and distrust from his neighborhood. He suffers great guilt and pain which results in his desperate plea to God for forgiveness and vows to never do it again, repentance.
Your statement that "no saved person could willingly sin against God" is in error. When we sin, it is always a willful act. No one or nothing is making us do it. We are in charge of our own actions. It is what we do and how we feel after that sin that separates the Christian from others. If we are not moved to repentance then there are consequences that will lead us to do so. This is the role of the Holy Spirit. Our status remains the same.
Blessings
 
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Albion

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Suppose a person is saved, by whatever criteria you choose to define it, and he sets out to prove his salvation.

Since no saved person could willingly sin against God, he purposely sets out to sin. He snatches his neighbor's rake in the middle of the night and runs off with it.

Just to be sure, he resolves to never to confess his sin to man nor God.

What is his status from the foundation of the world?
By Calvinist standards...you cannot "suppose" that this person is or was saved.
 
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HTacianas

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His neighbor comes over and finds his rake in the garage. God exposed his sin which leads him to an apology and restitution. Then he suffers condemnation and distrust from his neighborhood. He suffers great guilt and pain which results in his desperate plea to God for forgiveness and vows to never do it again, repentance.
Your statement that "no saved person could willingly sin against God" is in error. When we sin, it is always a willful act. No one or nothing is making us do it. We are in charge of our own actions. It is what we do and how we feel after that sin that separates the Christian from others. If we are not moved to repentance then there are consequences that will lead us to do so. This the the role of the Holy Spirit. Our status remains the same.
Blessings

To say that we are in charge of our own actions is free will.
 
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BBAS 64

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Suppose a person is saved, by whatever criteria you choose to define it, and he sets out to prove his salvation.

Since no saved person could willingly sin against God, he purposely sets out to sin. He snatches his neighbor's rake in the middle of the night and runs off with it.

Just to be sure, he resolves to never to confess his sin to man nor God.

What is his status from the foundation of the world?

Good day, HTacianas

What would you deed to be sufficient proof?

"Since no person willing sets out to sin against God" now that is quite the assertion on your part...

To conclude that it is sin, he has already agreed with God that it was sin and owns it as such and confesses that reality to God and Himself.

Him resolving is meaningless, much like resolve to be 25 yrs old again.

His status before the foundation is the cause of how he reacts, and that status not impacted.

If he was chosen in Christ then, that is still the status he is loved in Christ, because the Father loves Christ before the foundation of the world.

Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.

In Him,

Bill
 
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redleghunter

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Suppose a person is saved, by whatever criteria you choose to define it, and he sets out to prove his salvation.

Since no saved person could willingly sin against God, he purposely sets out to sin. He snatches his neighbor's rake in the middle of the night and runs off with it.

Just to be sure, he resolves to never to confess his sin to man nor God.

What is his status from the foundation of the world?
What state did the rake theft happen in?
 
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redleghunter

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It was in the area known as Four Corners and is in all probability interstate making it a Federal offense.
So they lived on the interstate? I asked because some states and local communities allow the taking of goods from others of up $950 as not a criminal offense. I’m thinking a standard rake does not cost that much. Standard rake is about $19.98 which the Feds would laugh at and dismiss.

Garden Rakes - Gardening Tools - The Home Depot

Now if he busted into the neighbors car and stole the car? Yes even in San Francisco car theft is still a crime, but busting a window to rob what’s in it is not a crime.
 
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HTacianas

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So they lived on the interstate? I asked because some states and local communities allow the taking of goods from others of up $950 as not a criminal offense. I’m thinking a standard rake does not cost that much. Standard rake is about $19.98 which the Feds would laugh at and dismiss.

Garden Rakes - Gardening Tools - The Home Depot

Now if he busted into the neighbors car and stole the car? Yes even in San Francisco car theft is still a crime, but busting a window to rob what’s in it is not a crime.

Did I mention that he sold the rake on ebay using a PayPal account making it wire fraud?
 
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Hazelelponi

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Suppose a person is saved, by whatever criteria you choose to define it, and he sets out to prove his salvation.

Since no saved person could willingly sin against God, he purposely sets out to sin. He snatches his neighbor's rake in the middle of the night and runs off with it.

Just to be sure, he resolves to never to confess his sin to man nor God.

What is his status from the foundation of the world?

How Does ‘Willful Sinning’ Threaten My Salvation?

^^^ Willful sin is more from the Greek than just an act of the will. ALL sin is an act of the will so what the Bible is speaking of, when it speaking of deliberate or willing sin, is something all should endeavor to understand clearly.

As the writer points out:

... the word deliberately translates the Greek hekousiōs. This word is used in 1 Peter 5:2 like this: “Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly [hekousiōs].” Willingly — here is the same word that we translate as deliberately in Hebrews 10:26.​

He further goes on to explain:

Now, what this usage shows (and the reason I cite it) is that there are two different kinds of willing, aren’t there? One is eager and wholehearted, and the other is under compulsion.

In both cases, one could argue that the elders are in fact exercising their will to shepherd the flock of God. In the one case, it’s glad. It’s an act that engages the whole will. It’s happy and energized. In the other case, it’s begrudging, an act that evidently goes against significant parts of the will because they would rather be doing something else. They don’t really want to shepherd the flock of God, but for money or for fame or to avoid guilty feelings they gut it out and shepherd the flock of God.​

So when the Book of Hebrews speaks of willful sinning, it is speaking of an act of sin that one enters joyfully, in a patterned, persistent manner without any reservations or guilt in so doing. In this person it is obvious the person has never turned their life over to Christ.

So in the rake thief we must ask if this act is a pattern in this man. For instance, is this rake just one of many things this man feels no remorse in stealing?

If this is tool #10 that's been stolen, showing a pattern of behavior that is running unchecked, and he still feels no error in the act then perhaps there's no relationship with God that is working within this man...

In the end though, we will beat ourselves up forever if we look to ourselves to determine if our actions are making us worthy of salvation..

The one thing Christ did, that most people simply overlook, is that Christ was never the picture of a man who trusted in His own actions for anything. He didn't look to the work of His Hands for even one thing, which stands Him in stark contrast to both the zealots as well as the religious leaders at that time. While He expounds upon the deep meaning of scripture, His life is what we are to emulate in our own.

If we are to emulate this life, then what is the most important aspect of Jesus? What carried HIM through no matter what was thrown His way?

That answer is just one thing. His trust was in God alone. Not Himself, not His understanding or His will, just God.

From start to finish Jesus's was a life that put God first, that trusted in God for all things, and walked in that trust.

If we are looking to and trusting in the work of our hands for knowledge of our salvation and/or our salvation, our eyes and our heart are looking and trusting in the wrong thing.

For everything we look to Him - not ourselves. The most difficult thing of all, is that.
 
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HTacianas

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How Does ‘Willful Sinning’ Threaten My Salvation?

^^^ Willful sin is more from the Greek than just an act of the will. ALL sin is an act of the will so what the Bible is speaking of, when it speaking of deliberate or willing sin, is something all should endeavor to understand clearly.

As the writer points out:

... the word deliberately translates the Greek hekousiōs. This word is used in 1 Peter 5:2 like this: “Shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly [hekousiōs].” Willingly — here is the same word that we translate as deliberately in Hebrews 10:26.​

He further goes on to explain:

Now, what this usage shows (and the reason I cite it) is that there are two different kinds of willing, aren’t there? One is eager and wholehearted, and the other is under compulsion.

In both cases, one could argue that the elders are in fact exercising their will to shepherd the flock of God. In the one case, it’s glad. It’s an act that engages the whole will. It’s happy and energized. In the other case, it’s begrudging, an act that evidently goes against significant parts of the will because they would rather be doing something else. They don’t really want to shepherd the flock of God, but for money or for fame or to avoid guilty feelings they gut it out and shepherd the flock of God.​

So when the Book of Hebrews speaks of willful sinning, it is speaking of an act of sin that one enters joyfully, in a patterned, persistent manner without any reservations or guilt in so doing. In this person it is obvious the person has never turned their life over to Christ.

So in the rake thief we must ask if this act is a pattern in this man. For instance, is this rake just one of many things this man feels no remorse in stealing?

If this is tool #10 that's been stolen, showing a pattern of behavior that is running unchecked, and he still feels no error in the act then perhaps there's no relationship with God that is working within this man...

In the end though, we will beat ourselves up forever if we look to ourselves to determine if our actions are making us worthy of salvation..

The one thing Christ did, that most people simply overlook, is that Christ was never the picture of a man who trusted in His own actions for anything. He didn't look to the work of His Hands for even one thing, which stands Him in stark contrast to both the zealots as well as the religious leaders at that time. While He expounds upon the deep meaning of scripture, His life is what we are to emulate in our own.

If we are to emulate this life, then what is the most important aspect of Jesus? What carried HIM through no matter what was thrown His way?

That answer is just one thing. His trust was in God alone. Not Himself, not His understanding or His will, just God.

From start to finish Jesus's was a life that put God first, that trusted in God for all things, and walked in that trust.

If we are looking to and trusting in the work of our hands for knowledge of our salvation and/or our salvation, our eyes and our heart are looking and trusting in the wrong thing.

For everything we look to Him - not ourselves. The most difficult thing of all, is that.

If all sin was an act of the will there would be no sins of ignorance.
 
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HTacianas

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How do you say that?

Lev 4:2 - Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

It's the only type of sin the sacrifices of the old testament atoned for.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Lev 4:2 - Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

It's the only type of sin the sacrifices of the old testament atoned for.

What acts, that are called sins in the Bible, have you ever done/committed that you did not choose to do in some capacity?

Anger = choice
Love = choice
Adultery = choice
Evil thoughts = choice
Pure thoughts = choice

Everything that is ever called a sin in the Bible is based on things you control through choice.

Everything that is a natural function of man God gives a proper outlet for (e.g. sexual desire = marriage)

Therefore all sin involves an act of man's will, or acts that man can control.
 
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HTacianas

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What acts, that are called sins in the Bible, have you ever done/committed that you did not choose to do in some capacity?

Anger = choice
Love = choice
Adultery = choice
Evil thoughts = choice
Pure thoughts = choice

Everything that is ever called a sin in the Bible is based on things you control through choice.

Everything that is a natural function of man God gives a proper outlet for (e.g. sexual desire = marriage)

Therefore all sin involves an act of man's will, or acts that man can control.

It doesn't matter what acts I may have committed or not committed, nor does it matter the reasons I may or may not have committed them. It only matters that there are intentional sins and sins of ignorance.

1Jo 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.
 
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renniks

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Suppose a person is saved, by whatever criteria you choose to define it, and he sets out to prove his salvation.

Since no saved person could willingly sin against God, he purposely sets out to sin. He snatches his neighbor's rake in the middle of the night and runs off with it.

Just to be sure, he resolves to never to confess his sin to man nor God.

What is his status from the foundation of the world?
I'm not a Calvinist, but Martin Luther said even if one commits adultery and murder a hundred times a day, he's still saved. I would think that's a logical conclusion of being irresistibly chosen.
 
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