Ayn Rand and the "kindergarten of communism"

[durangodawood]

Ayn Rand's whole ethical edifice was based on the principle of self-interest above any other consideration. And so.....

...She (Ayn Rand) also had a more specific critique, writing that Christianity "is the best kindergarten of communism possible". Christianity taught believers to put others before self, an ethical mandate that matched the collectivist emphasis on the group over the individual...

Goddess of the Market

 

[RDKirk]

Ayn Rand's whole ethical edifice was based on the principle of self-interest above any other consideration. And so.....


Goddess of the Market

Well, within the Body of Christ, "From each according to his [God-given] ability, to each according to his need" is the way the economy within the Body of Christ is supposed to work.

 

[Lazarus Short]

As a former follower of Ayn Rand, I will say that she might be correct IF THERE WERE NO GOD.

 

[Earatha]

I disagree with her on that. But I disagree with her on a lot. Rand assumes people are rational. They’re not.

One of my earliest disagreements with her was her assumption that religion was purely evil and those who run it are only in it for evil. She compares them to communist dictators. I honestly disagree with both of those.

Religion is very much about self interest anyway. Why follow whatever religion? For the health and happiness of ones own soul.

 

[A_Thinker]

Religion is very much about self interest anyway. Why follow whatever religion? For the health and happiness of ones own soul.

Not quite. Some are religious because they are more in-line with God's principles, loving helping and others, contributing more than taking, order, peace, family, etc.

 

[Earatha]

It could be argued that such principles are followed for self interested reasons. Doing these things will make a person happier, is the claim. Or will save them from hell, or allow salvation, or whatever.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ayn Rand's whole ethical edifice was based on the principle of self-interest above any other consideration. And so.....


Goddess of the Market

If selflessness was the biggest appeal of christianity...this might be worth considering. As it stands, judging others seems to be the message that most christians latch onto.

 

[A_Thinker]

If selflessness was the biggest appeal of christianity...this might be worth considering. As it stands, judging others seems to be the message that most christians latch onto.

I would say some, rather than most ...

 

[JackRT]

Rand presents a philosophical argument for self interest, aka "greed", as a dominant factor in the market place. She further argues that greed is self limiting and that is exactly where her argument fails. Experience, particularly recent experience, shows that this is far from true. Greed feeds upon itself without bound. People will accumulate wealth far beyond any reasonable need for themselves or their families far into the future with zero consideration of the needs of their workers or suppliers or customers.

 

[keith99]

If selflessness was the biggest appeal of christianity...this might be worth considering. As it stands, judging others seems to be the message that most christians latch onto.

Despite Matthew 7:1-3 making it quite clear that one is not to judge. But then lots of stuff in Chapters 6 and 7 of Matthew seem to get ignored.

 

[RDKirk]

Despite Matthew 7:1-3 making it quite clear that one is not to judge. But then lots of stuff in Chapters 6 and 7 of Matthew seem to get ignored.

But then there is Matthew 18 in which "judging" is authorized.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I would say some, rather than most ...

And when christians stop leaving pamphlets on my door every Saturday, I might consider other possibilities...

Christianity has a 2000 year history of judging others....judging other religions as "wrong", judging people as "unchristian" or "evil" or just "sinful", judging ideas like a round earth or evolution, judging behaviors and lifestyles....

Selflessness? It may be a central part of the christian message....but it's not a central part of christianity.

 

[keith99]

But then there is Matthew 18 in which "judging" is authorized.

If I'm getting the right verse it only applies to 'judging' another Christian and that only after talking to him and the eventual possible judgement not being in the hands on one man.

Rather unlike the way many Christians judge others.

And for that matter even if some verse allows a Christian to judge the 'Judge not lest you be judged' and as you measure it to another so shall it be measured to you' should be enough that any sane Christian would be extremely slow to judge.

 

[RDKirk]

If I'm getting the right verse it only applies to 'judging' another Christian and that only after talking to him and the eventual possible judgement not being in the hands on one man.

Rather unlike the way many Christians judge others.

With regard to judging non-Christians, Paul stated:

It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. -- 1 Corinthians 5

And for that matter even if some verse allows a Christian to judge the 'Judge not lest you be judged' and as you measure it to another so shall it be measured to you' should be enough that any sane Christian would be extremely slow to judge.

When I was in high school, one of the elders of our congregation was discovered by his wife on his living room floor in flagrante delicto with a 12-year-old boy. The elder board took the stance, "Judge not lest you be judged" and took no action against their fellow elder.

Personally, I thought then as a teenager and I haven't changed my mind that there should have been some judgin' going on.

 

[Strathos]

Ayn Rand is one of the most evil people who ever lived, IMO.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ayn Rand is one of the most evil people who ever lived, IMO.

I think she was more a product of her place and time.

If you saw your nation turned upside down and left in the nightmare of Stalinism in the name of "equality"...then you might end up with some unpopular ideas about what people "deserve" and what they don't.

 

[Strathos]

I think she was more a product of her place and time.

If you saw your nation turned upside down and left in the nightmare of Stalinism in the name of "equality"...then you might end up with some unpopular ideas about what people "deserve" and what they don't.

That doesn't justify the vile philosophy she popularized, though.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That doesn't justify the vile philosophy she popularized, though.

It doesn't?

I don't agree with Rand....and I can easily come up with some rather easy arguments against her position...

But I don't see anything particularly vile about it. After all, we are not equals.

I'll bite though, what's so vile about it?

 

[A_Thinker]

I don't agree with Rand....and I can easily come up with some rather easy arguments against her position...

But I don't see anything particularly vile about it. After all, we are not equals.

What is the basis for our non-equality ?

 

[Ana the Ist]

What is the basis for our non-equality ?

Reality.