A LIST OF MY FAVORITE LOSE YOUR SALVATION VERSES

[jimmyjimmy]

This may be a good thread to ask this question to fire up a good debate:

Are legalists - those who impose rules and regulations on others as a condition for salvation - actually saved? Have they come through the narrow gate of faith and trust in Christ, or have they come over the wall of legalism and therefore are not really born again? I include those who quote scripture to back up their legalism and appear very convincing about it, but the effect is that good believers struggle with condemnation as a result. In my opinion, these legalists may be very good-living religious folk, but they are not saved and are motivated by a religious spirit instead of the spirit of Christ, and the scripture does say that the person who does not have the spirit of Christ is none of His.

They certainly can be saved or not. The Galatians error is widespread and so common that many are unaware they suffer from it.

 

[TheSeabass]

You've already pledged your allegiance with Joseph Smith and CT Russell, I'm done talking with you.
Anathema,
HW

You cannot defend your belief only position so you make false attacks against me.

Smith believes Jesus Christ saves. If you also believe Jesus Christ saves then you must have aligned yourself with Smith. See how weak and unsubstantive your failed arguments are?

 

[Honoluluwindow]

You cannot defend your belief only position so you make false attacks against me.

Smith believes Jesus Christ saves. If you also believe Jesus Christ saves then you must have aligned yourself with Smith. See how weak and unsubstantive your failed arguments are?

No, smith believed salvation was a mixture of grace and works, the exact imprint of the heretical, false, different gospel you are sharing. You may as well put on a white shirt and black tie, go out with the morons on their mission trip because you both share identical beliefs.

 

[sdowney717]

THere is no verse that says "Judas did not believe in Jesus Christ".

Judas was a disciple of Christ, Luke 6:13 Judas was a disciple of Christ, one of "His" disciples and one could not be a disciple, later an Apostle while an reprobate, unbeliever.




The ones that "never perish" of John 10:28 are the ones that CONDITIONALLY maintain a present tense hearing and following per verse 27.




John is writing to Christians and it is this GROUP that has an anointing from the Holy One... no one outside of the GROUP has it. Therefore as long as one CONDITIONALLY remains in this GROUP one will have this anointing but if one becomes unfaithful fall from this group he will no longer have it.

v25, none are lost of those who come to God through Christ. They do not save themselves. He ever lives to make intercession for them. And Christ does not fail to keep all those the Father has given to Him.

Hebrews 7:24-25New King James Version (NKJV)
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

 

[Honoluluwindow]

Repentance is a synonym for faith!

 

[Honoluluwindow]

Repentance is a synonym for faith!

“But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him.

Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil? Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:64, 70-71‬ ‭ASV‬‬
John 6:64; But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him.
Judas never believed!

 

[sdowney717]

If being born again is of God's will and not of the will of man, then man born of God can not escape from God's salvation. For him, salvation is eternal.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Being born of God precedes the confession of the mouth as it has to do with the heart believing unto righteousness, and evil hearts don't believe God. Out of the heart the mouth speaks.

 

[TheSeabass]

v25, none are lost of those who come to God through Christ. They do not save themselves. He ever lives to make intercession for them. And Christ does not fail to keep all those the Father has given to Him.

Hebrews 7:24-25New King James Version (NKJV)
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Yes, as long as one CONDITIONALLY continues to come to Christ and believe him, then that person will not be lost. Those that quit coming to Christ will be lost. Therefore people "save themselves" (Acts 2:40; 1 Timothy 4:16) in that sense by choosing to continue to come to Christ.

 

[TheSeabass]

If being born again is of God's will and not of the will of man, then man born of God can not escape from God's salvation. For him, salvation is eternal.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Being born of God precedes the confession of the mouth as it has to do with the heart believing unto righteousness, and evil hearts don't believe God. Out of the heart the mouth speaks.

John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

Coffman Commentaries, quoting Barton Johnson, eloquently says of verse 12 (my emp) "It is not declared that they were made children by believing, but to the believer he gives the power to become a child. When one believes in Christ, his faith becomes a power to lead him to yield himself to God and to receive the Word into his heart. He can then repent of sin, surrender to the will of the Father, and, being baptized into Christ, he puts on Christ, becomes the Lord's brother and a child of God by adoption."

Belief only leaves one short in becoming a child of God.




John 1:13 "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Those that have believed Christ per verse 12 have the right to follow through with that belief to be born again by submitting to water baptism thereby becoming a child of God.

This verse does not mean God alone decides for man which men will or will not be born again, Such an idea puts culpability upon God for the lost. It is simply saying the the new birth came from God and is spiritual, not of the flesh, not part of one's physical descent.

 

[sdowney717]

Yes, as long as one CONDITIONALLY continues to come to Christ and believe him, then that person will not be lost. Those that quit coming to Christ will be lost. Therefore people "save themselves" (Acts 2:40; 1 Timothy 4:16) in that sense by choosing to continue to come to Christ.

God's will for His people is that Christ loses none of them and they will all be raised up.
What God has determined, man can not undue.
Those who depart the faith, do so because they have unbelieving hearts, in 1 John 2, they are said to be antichrist who are not of us since they departed the faith. The reason some stay true is because God has given them an anointing to know the truth. See the conditionality is dependent on God as the prime mover and the man responds as God has taught him.

John 6
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[sdowney717]

1 John 2 tells us why some depart the faith. And tells us why some do not. The ones who do not depart the faith are as Jesus said, taught by the Father.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

John 6
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Ans so conversely, if your not hearing from God and learning from God, then your not being drawn and your never going to believe in Christ and be saved. Jesus use of 'all' here refers to all those drawn who come to Him, and are the 'everyone' of whom He speaks.

 

[TheSeabass]

No, smith believed salvation was a mixture of grace and works, the exact imprint of the heretical, false, different gospel you are sharing. You may as well put on a white shirt and black tie, go out with the morons on their mission trip because you both share identical beliefs.

Salvation is free. (2 Nephi 2:4.) Justification is free. Neither of them can be purchased; neither can be earned; neither comes by the Law of Moses, or by good works, or by any power or ability that man has. . . . Salvation is free, freely available, freely to be found. It comes because of his goodness and grace, because of his love, mercy, and condescension toward the children of men. . . . The questions then are: What salvation is free? What salvation comes by the grace of God? With all the emphasis of the rolling thunders of Sinai, we answer: All salvation is free; all comes by the merits and mercy and grace of the Holy Messiah; there is no salvation of any kind, nature, or degree that is not bound to Christ and his atonement. Jesus Christ and Salvation | Religious Studies Center

The above in blue was written by a Joseph Smith follower, Elder Bruce R. McConkie,

Evidently then, according to your "logic",anyone who thinks salvation is a free gift and results from Christ and His atonement must be a Mormon. It becomes very evident on how fallacious your argument is.


Secondly, I quoted the words of Jesus Christ John 8:24; Luke 13:3; Matthew 10:32,33 and Mark 16:16 when I said Christ requires belief repentance confession and baptism to be saved. You have been unable to refute Christ's own words so all you are able to do is to continue with your false argument above and continue to avoid explaining how "belief only" can save an impenitent person. We have a case where some people accept Christ's words on belief repentance confession and baptism while you reject them.

 

[TheSeabass]

Repentance is a synonym for faith!

A NT belief includes repentance but belief and repentance are not the same things. James said the devils believe and tremble. Yet the devils type of belief only will not save them for their belief only is void of repentance confession and baptism.

 

[TheSeabass]

God's will for His people is that Christ loses none of them and they will all be raised up.
What God has determined, man can not undue.
Those who depart the faith, do so because they have unbelieving hearts, in 1 John 2, they are said to be antichrist who are not of us since they departed the faith. The reason some stay true is because God has given them an anointing to know the truth. See the conditionality is dependent on God as the prime mover and the man responds as God has taught him.

John 6
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6:39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day"

The ones that the Father hath given to Christ are the ones that conditionally have and maintain a present tense coming and believing, i.e., God gives to Christ the ones that have obeyed the gospel of Christ. And as long as they CONDITIONALLY continue to come to Christ and believe Him they will not be lost.

John 17:6-8 Judas was one who was given to Christ. Even though Judas was given to Christ by God, he ended up lost "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12
Jesus could not say these words of v17 if Judas had never been given to Him by God.

Judas BECAME lost due to not conditionally maintaining a present tense coming to and belief in Christ.

1 John 2:19 does not say, imply nor prove that if one quits believing that he "never did really believe". That illogical idea is assumed into the verse by some people. You said yourself "in 1 John 2, they are said to be antichrist who are not of us since they departed the faith.." Logically one cannot depart from the faith if he was never in or ever had the faith to begin with. Therefore Christians can lose their faith and become lost.

 

[TheSeabass]

1 John 2 tells us why some depart the faith. And tells us why some do not. The ones who do not depart the faith are as Jesus said, taught by the Father.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

The fact some can depart from the faith proves that a Christian can be lost and OSAS is not biblical.

John 6
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Ans so conversely, if your not hearing from God and learning from God, then your not being drawn and your never going to believe in Christ and be saved. Jesus use of 'all' here refers to all those drawn who come to Him, and are the 'everyone' of whom He speaks.

Yes, God does His drawing through His word when men have been "taught", "heard" and "learned" that word, then men "cometh to Me (CHrist)".

God draws, men come.

Therefore God's drawing is not some mystical, irresistible drawing done apart from the word. Men come to Christ of their own volition upon being drawn by God through His word. And as long as one continues to "come to Christ" he will be raised up at the last day.

 

[sdowney717]

The fact some can depart from the faith proves that a Christian can be lost and OSAS is not biblical.




Yes, God does His drawing through His word when men have been "taught", "heard" and "learned" that word, then men "cometh to Me (CHrist)".

God draws, men come.

Therefore God's drawing is not some mystical, irresistible drawing done apart from the word. Men come to Christ of their own volition upon being drawn by God through His word. And as long as one continues to "come to Christ" he will be raised up at the last day.

Funny how you miss Christ's words about the Father giving to Christ His people and they are the ones who will come to Him, in that they have not yet come, means they were drawn-compelled by God to Christ by an inward working power which was God at work within them, and they would not normally do so on their own... That is what true grace is, being saved is God's gift and is only for the elect whom God has foreknown BEFOREHAND as His people, whom He has chosen, not all men.
1 Peter 1New International Version (NIV)

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect,
exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
through the sanctifying work of the Spirit,
to be obedient to Jesus Christ
and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

The ELECT have been CHOSEN by FOREKNOWLEDGE of God, through the SANCTIFYING work of the Holy Spirit, to be OBEDIENT to Christ and SPRINKLED with His blood.

And only the ELECT have GRACE and PEACE with God.
Everyone of God's elect He has INDIVIDUALLY CALLED.

Romans 9
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

 

[TheSeabass]

Funny how you miss Christ's words about the Father giving to Christ His people and they are the ones who will come to Him, in that they have not yet come, means they were drawn-compelled by God to Christ by an inward working power which was God at work within them, and they would not normally do so on their own... That is what true grace is, being saved is God's gift and is only for the elect whom God has foreknown BEFOREHAND as His people, whom He has chosen, not all men.
1 Peter 1New International Version (NIV)

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect,
exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
through the sanctifying work of the Spirit,
to be obedient to Jesus Christ
and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

The ELECT have been CHOSEN by FOREKNOWLEDGE of God, through the SANCTIFYING work of the Holy Spirit, to be OBEDIENT to Christ and SPRINKLED with His blood.

And only the ELECT have GRACE and PEACE with God.
Everyone of God's elect He has INDIVIDUALLY CALLED.

Above you posted "Funny how you miss Christ's words about the Father giving to Christ His people and they are the ones who will come to Him."

Are you saying a person is saved BEFORE they come to Christ and believe on Him?
The bible shows one FIRST comes to Christ and believe on him THEN they are saved/given to Christ.

Men are called by the gospel, the word of God, 2 Thessalonians 2:14. So the call goes out to all men, each person, but only those that respond to that call make up the group called Christian, the elect. So salvation is still found in the group and not the individual.

Again, God foreknew the GROUP would have the blessings of being "in Christ", "holy and without blame" and be called 'sons', Eph 1:1-5. There is no INDIVIDUAL to be found in the bible who was unconditionally blessed with these blessings APART from the GROUP for these blessing are found only within the GROUP.

 

[EmSw]

God's will for His people is that Christ loses none of them and they will all be raised up.
What God has determined, man can not undue.
Those who depart the faith, do so because they have unbelieving hearts, in 1 John 2, they are said to be antichrist who are not of us since they departed the faith. The reason some stay true is because God has given them an anointing to know the truth. See the conditionality is dependent on God as the prime mover and the man responds as God has taught him.

God teaches us to keep His commandments; this is how man is taught. Since you gave us 1 John 2, why not give it all?

1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

It's not the reason some stay true because God gives them an 'anointing' to know truth. It's those who keep His commandments who have the truth in them. Therefore, the condition is dependent upon man, unlike your belief. Besides, John says you are a liar if you don't keep His commandments.

Now you know.

 

[Rick Otto]

God teaches us to keep His commandments; this is how man is taught. Since you gave us 1 John 2, why not give it all?

1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

It's not the reason some stay true because God gives them an 'anointing' to know truth. It's those who keep His commandments who have the truth in them. Therefore, the condition is dependent upon man, unlike your belief. Besides, John says you are a liar if you don't keep His commandments.

Now you know.

Now you may know that you have construed results as causes, and have therefor made yourself your own savior.
Pretty tidy.

 

[Rick Otto]

Above you posted "Funny how you miss Christ's words about the Father giving to Christ His people and they are the ones who will come to Him."

Are you saying a person is saved BEFORE they come to Christ and believe on Him?
The bible shows one FIRST comes to Christ and believe on him THEN they are saved/given to Christ.

Men are called by the gospel, the word of God, 2 Thessalonians 2:14. So the call goes out to all men, each person, but only those that respond to that call make up the group called Christian, the elect. So salvation is still found in the group and not the individual.

Again, God foreknew the GROUP would have the blessings of being "in Christ", "holy and without blame" and be called 'sons', Eph 1:1-5. There is no INDIVIDUAL to be found in the bible who was unconditionally blessed with these blessings APART from the GROUP for these blessing are found only within the GROUP.

You construe foreknowing to be clairvoyance as if God didn't know the beginning from the end of his own creation before He created it, and had "peek" into a future He himself created.