Would you renounce Christianity under torture?

[redbanklee]

Lately I have been reading a little bit of Eusebius's Church History. It seems that parts of the early church were subjected to a shocking level of persecution. What Eusebius writes has left me wondering if people would renounce their faith under torture, and if so, if they could still be considered Christian. So, what's your take?

i would like to think that i would b faithful unto death, but it is hard to say what it is that i would do.

 

[lovetogarden]

What you are asking we are seeing play out in real time in the ME. Christians (Coptic Catholics) are being beheaded and crucified in the ME for refusing to renounce Jesus and convert to Islam. Here are a few examples but there are literally thousands more. 12 men, including a 12 year old boy, all cried out Jesus! before their mass beheading. 4 children were raped, tortured and beheaded for refusing to renounce Jesus and convert. Christian missionaries (2 women and 4 men) in Allepo had parts of their bodies cut off piece by piece in an effort to get them to renounce Jesus before being crucified and then beheaded. What we are seeing and hearing now is the persecution of the Christians as revealed in Revelation in the last days. It hasn't come here yet to that extreme but we are seeing Christianity disrespected and undermined by fellow Americans who seem to turn a blind eye to the many crimes and distortions of Islam.

 

[lovetogarden]

My reply posted double but I see no way to delete the thread. I cut it but was not able to delete the repeated thread. That's why I am writing this message. Anyone have info on how to do that?

 

[66/40]

I would NEVER EVER renounce Christ under torture or ever! In fact, if I was being forced to renounce Christianity here's what I'd really do: I'd take out one of my captors with me. He'd meet Satan and I'd be present with The Lord, but I'm taking one or more out with me. I think of the poor people made to get on their knees only to be shot in the back or get their throats slit from ear to ear. Nope, not me. I'd fight until I died and at least one is coming with me into the afterlife. Although I won't be going where God's presence does not exist.

If 12 of the 12 Apostles (excluding Judas) could endure excruciating torture for the Lord (11 out of 12 were successfully murdered and martyred), then so can I.

 

[HEAVENS S01D13R]

Lately I have been reading a little bit of Eusebius's Church History. It seems that parts of the early church were subjected to a shocking level of persecution. What Eusebius writes has left me wondering if people would renounce their faith under torture, and if so, if they could still be considered Christian. So, what's your take?

I would and could never renounce my faith in Christ. There is nothing in the world that man could do to me that I have not already suffered and overcome. I suffer immensly from my injuries from a car wreck 10 years ago. I have developed a way to overcome pain and suffering by disconnecting from it in my mind. I have had over 60+ surgeries and been on my death bed over 2 dozen times. Death no longer frightens me, nor has it for many years. I nearly died just a year ago. Death should not frighten you. We all know where we reside in eternity. What people fear more than physical death, is if they are to die painfully or in great suffering.
Even if someone says the words that they renounce their faith, it does not make it so. Only what is held in the heart as truth is what determines whether someone could be called Christian or not. The whole point of finding strength in God is that no matter what degree of suffering you endure, that you can find the strength in Him to overcome any torture or persecution you may encounter. The most difficult persecution that most face is not that of physical suffering, but that of how their peers see them. If everyone you knew turned away, disowned, shunned, mocked or even hated you, how many people would stay true to their beliefs and not renounce them to no longer be mocked by the many? You should never care more about what man thinks of you than what God thinks of you. How can the praises of men compare to the praises of the Lord that you can receive?

 

[HEAVENS S01D13R]

I would NEVER EVER renounce Christ under torture or ever! In fact, if I was being forced to renounce Christianity here's what I'd really do: I'd take out one of my captors with me. He'd meet Satan and I'd be present with The Lord, but I'm taking one or more out with me. I think of the poor people made to get on their knees only to be shot in the back or get their throats slit from ear to ear. Nope, not me. I'd fight until I died and at least one is coming with me into the afterlife. Although I won't be going where God's presence does not exist.

If 12 of the 12 Apostles (excluding Judas) could endure excruciating torture for the Lord (11 out of 12 were successfully murdered and martyred), then so can I.

Do you honestly believe that that is how Jesus Christ and the Lord want you to act or speak. Violence is NEVER okay. Those that live by the sword will die by the sword. We must forever be messengers of peace and not those of "violence if the situation is right." Even if you are to perish by the sword, your eternity will be a reflection of how you chose to live and lead your life. Do you believe that any of the Apostles went all ape $#!7 on those who were persecuting them. I dont think so. "To live is Christ, to die is Gain." Phillipians 1:21. meaning that no matter how you die, you spend eternity with Christ.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Good examples from Scripture and current persecuted / executed believers help.

Believers who did not resist, but went unflinching to their death ....

Corrie ten Boom was asked "How can I know if I will resist betraying Jesus!?"

She said, Our Savior's Precious Promise to us is that He will grant us without limit the Grace we need in any and all circumstance to come through it.

We don't need a train ticket today for a trip in 3 months, do we ?

My father when I was six years old held on to the train ticket until the actual time of departure, when I was ready to board the train,
then he gave me the ticket.

Our heavenly Father likewise , does not give us the sufficient grace today for what lies in our future,
only He Promises it, and we have His Sure Word,
and on the Day it is needed, without any effort on our part (only believe),
He grants His Grace to us as He Promised He would.

He is Always Trustworthy and Faithful, Completely.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Lately I have been reading a little bit of Eusebius's Church History. It seems that parts of the early church were subjected to a shocking level of persecution. What Eusebius writes has left me wondering if people would renounce their faith under torture, and if so, if they could still be considered Christian. So, what's your take?

My take is no body can say they would or wouldn't, I think it's best we just focus on preparing ourselves just incase we end up in such a situation. When you look back at how the 12 died under persecution and others... IDK if i could say I wouldn't denounce my faith and maybe not be as bold as they were. I wouldn't worry too much about this scenario, God will not tempt us above what we are able after all. He may never place me for example in such a situation because he isn't' gonna tempe me above what i'm able.

Also I don't believe backsliding is some automatic process... it's a slow thing, simply saying you don't believe in God and committing one lie doesn't cause you not to be saved anymore.

 

[Galatea]

Well, He also said "but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven." in Matthew 10:33. That verse has always bothered me. I've always wondered if I would renounce my faith under torture if ordered to do so. The Apostle Peter thought he'd never deny Jesus, and yet he did when he feared he was about to be caught. So, since I've never been tortured, I have no idea how I'd react. All I can say is that I hope God would give me the strength to never deny Christ. As I am now, I'm afraid I would. Pretty scary thought considering how many in history never did.

I just read the chapter. Jesus was sending the twelve to preach the kingdom message- to the house of Israel. This is before the church, so it is a different message. This is what the world will be like during the Milennium Kingdom.

Of course, I am a dispensationalist, so I believe this part of the Scripture is not TO the church, for us, but not to us. This is how seemingly contradicting verses like the ones in Romans and the ones here can be reconciled.

 

[steve_bakr]

Lately I have been reading a little bit of Eusebius's Church History. It seems that parts of the early church were subjected to a shocking level of persecution. What Eusebius writes has left me wondering if people would renounce their faith under torture, and if so, if they could still be considered Christian. So, what's your take?

Well, under excrutiating pain I would first beg for a pain shot. If there is no relief, I cannot gaurantee not to say whatever is wanted. But I am not responsible if I do so under extreme torture.

I am responsible.for what I say and do so long as I possess a sound body and mind.

By the way, I am from the old forum days and haven't posted since now for a very long time.

 

[sparow]

Lately I have been reading a little bit of Eusebius's Church History. It seems that parts of the early church were subjected to a shocking level of persecution. What Eusebius writes has left me wondering if people would renounce their faith under torture, and if so, if they could still be considered Christian. So, what's your take?

I do not know about the early church, but people are persecuted because they get up their persecutors nose.

Renouncing one's faith is more than an oral submission; when Peter denied Christ three times he was not renouncing faith but beginning a journey; faith is not determined in a moment but over time. In Peter's denial was Peter's life threatened and saved?

Later in the Inquisitions Judaism was a crime punishable by death and anyone practising Jewish customs (like keeping the Sabbath) was charged with Judaism and punished accordingly; faith is a secret until one reveals it and the real crime of Judaism is denying the authority of Rome which may or may not involve God. Rome has never required anyone's faith only their obedience; so the question is "should a person invite persecution by keeping the Sabbath," (today there is usually no persecution for keeping the Sabbath, unless one lives in a wrong country) history repeats itself and we should expect persecution to return. I am not aware of Sunday ever being forced, but only the not keeping of Saturday has been forced; is not keeping the Sabbath under the threat of death or persecution a sin. In general to my knowledge the masses have never been forced to sin by way of legislation but I expect this will change.

There is a scripture that says, "those who save their life will loose it." Somewhere sometime a person is required to take a stand. There is a lot more to the fourth commandment than what can be legislated against, for example, one can keep the day Holy and Rome would not need to know it had happened.

 

[JLB777]

I just read the chapter. Jesus was sending the twelve to preach the kingdom message- to the house of Israel. This is before the church, so it is a different message. This is what the world will be like during the Milennium Kingdom.

Of course, I am a dispensationalist, so I believe this part of the Scripture is not TO the church, for us, but not to us. This is how seemingly contradicting verses like the ones in Romans and the ones here can be reconciled.

Interesting, so you believe the Apostle's who were empowered by Jesus to preach the Gospel, were not the Church, because.....?




JLB

 

[Galatea]

Interesting, so you believe the Apostle's who were empowered by Jesus to preach the Gospel, were not the Church, because.....?




JLB

Oh Gosh, I kind of knew this was going to open a can of worms.

While Jesus was with them in the flesh, they were NOT preaching the gospel. They were preaching the kingdom message to Israel. The church had not come into being until pentecost.

 

[sparow]

I would and could never renounce my faith in Christ. There is nothing in the world that man could do to me that I have not already suffered and overcome. I suffer immensly from my injuries from a car wreck 10 years ago. I have developed a way to overcome pain and suffering by disconnecting from it in my mind. I have had over 60+ surgeries and been on my death bed over 2 dozen times. Death no longer frightens me, nor has it for many years. I nearly died just a year ago. Death should not frighten you. We all know where we reside in eternity. What people fear more than physical death, is if they are to die painfully or in great suffering.
Even if someone says the words that they renounce their faith, it does not make it so. Only what is held in the heart as truth is what determines whether someone could be called Christian or not. The whole point of finding strength in God is that no matter what degree of suffering you endure, that you can find the strength in Him to overcome any torture or persecution you may encounter. The most difficult persecution that most face is not that of physical suffering, but that of how their peers see them. If everyone you knew turned away, disowned, shunned, mocked or even hated you, how many people would stay true to their beliefs and not renounce them to no longer be mocked by the many? You should never care more about what man thinks of you than what God thinks of you. How can the praises of men compare to the praises of the Lord that you can receive?

I agree; but there is a real problem that concerns us all; the Islamic persecution of middle eastern Christians is irrational; these people have got along with each other for more than 1260 years; they are fundamentally the same race and tribes. Regarding religious persecution, Jesus is a hero in Islam and has been the religion of Rome since the third century and through the Inquisitions; so religious persecution is not as religious as it appears and to understand it requires a good understanding of Biblical history and Biblical prophesy; and the genetically descending hatred from Jacobs brother and Ishmael.

 

[Armoured]

I agree; but there is a real problem that concerns us all; the Islamic persecution of middle eastern Christians is irrational; these people have got along with each other for more than 1260 years; they are fundamentally the same race and tribes. Regarding religious persecution, Jesus is a hero in Islam and has been the religion of Rome since the third century and through the Inquisitions; so religious persecution is not as religious as it appears and to understand it requires a good understanding of Biblical history and Biblical prophesy; and the genetically descending hatred from Jacobs brother and Ishmael.

Typically, for some reason, persecution seems to happen between group with more in common than those with less. Consider the brutality of the wars during the reformation between different flavours of Christianity, compared to, say, the attitude of Christians toward Hindus or animists.

 

[Theo Book]

Lately I have been reading a little bit of Eusebius's Church History. It seems that parts of the early church were subjected to a shocking level of persecution. What Eusebius writes has left me wondering if people would renounce their faith under torture, and if so, if they could still be considered Christian. So, what's your take?

I think the Christian martyrs currently under the sword of Islam are best response to that question.

I also think, no one can have a "last-minute-decision" based upon a doctrine, in the same capacity as one who has a life-commitment to Christ.

I just hope and pray none of us will be forced to face that decision.

 

[bugkiller]

One of the reasons I do not attend religious activities anymore is I would not give my life for what goes on. So yes I would renounce church even without torture. I say in faith I would give my life for Jesus.

bugkiller

 

[sdowney717]

Well, He also said "but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven." in Matthew 10:33. That verse has always bothered me. I've always wondered if I would renounce my faith under torture if ordered to do so. The Apostle Peter thought he'd never deny Jesus, and yet he did when he feared he was about to be caught. So, since I've never been tortured, I have no idea how I'd react. All I can say is that I hope God would give me the strength to never deny Christ. As I am now, I'm afraid I would. Pretty scary thought considering how many in history never did.

Maybe some would, but regarding Peter's denial, Christ's response was the He had prayed for Peter, and Peter would return to the Lord in faith and then strengthen his brothers. Christ did not pray for Judas Iscariot and so he fell and was not restored.

Christ intercedes for us to the Father and restores His people. So if your His, then you would be restored and granted repentance and faith. Christ's promise to us is He will not lose anyone the Father has given to Him as believers.

Of Peter he become a martyr himself and so then at his end did not deny Christ.

 

[Achilles6129]

Here's a great passage regarding this question that I'm not sure anyone quoted:

"13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it." 1 Cor. 10:13 (NASB)

 

[LostMarbels]

Lately I have been reading a little bit of Eusebius's Church History. It seems that parts of the early church were subjected to a shocking level of persecution. What Eusebius writes has left me wondering if people would renounce their faith under torture, and if so, if they could still be considered Christian. So, what's your take?

This is a topic I do not take lightly, and one that I have taken a lot of time to address in my walk with Christ. Even if you read my signature you will see this is a daily reality in my walk. I have prayed about this for years, and I have tried to prepare myself in every way to help insure that when the day comes I will be ready. I do not fear death like most do. I welcome the opportunity to be martyred for my God. I actualy believe I will be killed in a horrible way. I'm not suicidal, or some nutcase that has no desire to live. Instead, I have come to terms with the fact that I may be murdered for my faith.

I have even discussed this with my family, many times, for many years. It is a cold hard truth that many wish to avoid, but it is a fact of Christianity. We are to love Christ more than any other. Even more than ourselves.

10:33-39 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Not Peace, but a Sword. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

My wife, Mom, Brother, Daughters, and so on know, and have been told that I will not deny Christ to save them. If I am put into that situation, they are going to die. If I am given the ultimatum, I am going to die. They also know I will deny anyone of them that preaches against the name of Jesus, accepts the Mark, (if it is in our lifetime) or denies Jesus to save even my own life. I will leave my entire family behind, and go my own way if need be. They know this.

Jesus Christ is Lord, and I denounce any, and all others.

For decades now I have prayed God would prepare my heart to face my own death. I often pray for God to harden my heart against this world as He hardened Pharaoh's against Him. Yet, I know how horrible it will be. Our deaths will not be nobel. I will not be labeled a martyr of Christ. They will not give us that satisfaction. I will be labeled a malicious seditionist full of bigotry, and deception. A domestic terrorist. A criminal. I will be mocked, ridiculed and maybe even tourtchered. It's gonna suck. Oh man, is it gonna suck.... but I can only last so long before it is over. However, eternity is a long time. God give me strength, in Christ Jesus name.