Do Baptist believe they can hear God today immediately, or only through scripture?

[LoveofTruth]

Hello all and God bless,

It has come to my attention over the years that many seem to say they have never heard God at any time and that they cannot hear God speak today. They say God only speaks through the scriptures.

Is this the case with Baptist?

Do you believe you can hear God speak today apart from the scriptures? Though we know that God speaks through scripture as we are given understanding of them by Jesus. The Holy scriptures are vital and they were given by the inspiration of God. But no man can know the scriptures unless they are taught by God through the Spirit.

The bible says

"7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:..." (Hebrews 3:7,8 KJV)

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


God speaks in the heart today and works in every believer to make them perfect unto every good work, as he always has and Jesus Christ is in every believer as we read,

"5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV)

I am perplexed by some who say that no believer can hear God today and God does not speak immediately to anyone but through scripture.

Even when we read scripture ( that was given by the Spirit) we cannot know the things of God in scripture unless God revealed them to us by His Spirit. The Speaks to the us and the body as scripture shows,

"10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." ( 1 Corinthians 2:10-14 KJV)

So no believer can know anything but by the Spirit, and John says similar

"27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." ( 1 John 2:27 KJV)

so my question is have you been taught by Jesus and have you heard Gods voice. Are you led by the Spirit? if you say no we cannot hear God today except through scripture, then how do you understand scripture?

And my question is, is Jesus Christ in you? Yes or no? and have you heard the voice of the shepherd?

 

[JM]

God speaks...through scripture alone.

From John Piper:

Let me tell you about a most wonderful experience I had early Monday morning, March 19, 2007, a little after six o’clock. God actually spoke to me. There is no doubt that it was God. I heard the words in my head just as clearly as when a memory of a conversation passes across your consciousness. The words were in English, but they had about them an absolutely self-authenticating ring of truth. I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that God still speaks today.

I couldn’t sleep for some reason. I was at Shalom House in northern Minnesota on a staff couples’ retreat. It was about five thirty in the morning. I lay there wondering if I should get up or wait till I got sleepy again. In his mercy, God moved me out of bed. It was mostly dark, but I managed to find my clothing, got dressed, grabbed my briefcase, and slipped out of the room without waking up Noël. In the main room below, it was totally quiet. No one else seemed to be up. So I sat down on a couch in the corner to pray.

As I prayed and mused, suddenly it happened. God said, “Come and see what I have done.” There was not the slightest doubt in my mind that these were the very words of God. In this very moment. At this very place in the twenty-first century, 2007, God was speaking to me with absolute authority and self-evidencing reality. I paused to let this sink in. There was a sweetness about it. Time seemed to matter little. God was near. He had me in his sights. He had something to say to me. When God draws near, hurry ceases. Time slows down.

I wondered what he meant by “come and see.” Would he take me somewhere, like he did Paul into heaven to see what can’t be spoken? Did “see” mean that I would have a vision of some great deed of God that no one has seen? I am not sure how much time elapsed between God’s initial word, “Come and see what I have done,” and his next words. It doesn’t matter. I was being enveloped in the love of his personal communication. The God of the universe was speaking to me.

Then he said, as clearly as any words have ever come into my mind, “I am awesome in my deeds toward the children of man.” My heart leaped up, “Yes, Lord! You are awesome in your deeds. Yes, to all men whether they see it or not. Yes! Now what will you show me?”

The words came again. Just as clear as before, but increasingly specific: “I turned the sea into dry land; they passed through the river on foot. There they rejoiced in me—who rules by my might forever.” Suddenly I realized God was taking me back several thousand years to the time when he dried up the Red Sea and the Jordan River. I was being transported by his word back into history to those great deeds. This is what he meant by “come and see.” He was transporting me back by his words to those two glorious deeds before the children of men. These were the “awesome deeds” he referred to. God himself was narrating the mighty works of God. He was doing it for me. He was doing it with words that were resounding in my own mind.

There settled over me a wonderful reverence. A palpable peace came down. This was a holy moment and a holy corner of the world in northern Minnesota. God Almighty had come down and was giving me the stillness and the openness and the willingness to hear his very voice. As I marveled at his power to dry the sea and the river, he spoke again. “I keep watch over the nations—let not the rebellious exalt themselves.”

This was breathtaking. It was very serious. It was almost a rebuke. At least a warning. He may as well have taken me by the collar of my shirt, lifted me off the ground with one hand, and said, with an incomparable mixture of fierceness and love, “Never, never, never exalt yourself. Never rebel against me.”

I sat staring at nothing. My mind was full of the global glory of God. “I keep watch over the nations.” He had said this to me. It was not just that he had said it. Yes, that is glorious. But he had said this to me. The very words of God were in my head. They were there in my head just as much as the words that I am writing at this moment are in my head. They were heard as clearly as if at this moment I recalled that my wife said, “Come down for supper whenever you are ready.” I know those are the words of my wife. And I know these are the words of God.

Think of it. Marvel at this. Stand in awe of this. The God who keeps watch over the nations, like some people keep watch over cattle or stock markets or construction sites — this God still speaks in the twenty-first century. I heard his very words. He spoke personally to me.

What effect did this have on me? It filled me with a fresh sense of God’s reality. It assured me more deeply that he acts in history and in our time. It strengthened my faith that he is for me and cares about me and will use his global power to watch over me. Why else would he come and tell me these things?

It has increased my love for the Bible as God’s very word, because it was through the Bible that I heard these divine words, and through the Bible I have experiences like this almost every day. The very God of the universe speaks on every page into my mind — and your mind. We hear his very words. God himself has multiplied his wondrous deeds and thoughts toward us; none can compare with him! I will proclaim and tell of them, yet they are more than can be told (Psalm 40:5).

And best of all, they are available to all. If you would like to hear the very same words I heard on the couch in northern Minnesota, read Psalm 66:5–7. That is where I heard them. O, how precious is the Bible. It is the very word of God. In it God speaks in the twenty-first century. This is the very voice of God. By this voice, he speaks with absolute truth and personal force. By this voice, he reveals his all-surpassing beauty. By this voice, he reveals the deepest secrets of our hearts. No voice anywhere anytime can reach as deep or lift as high or carry as far as the voice of God that we hear in the Bible.

It is a great wonder that God still speaks today through the Bible with greater force and greater glory and greater assurance and greater sweetness and greater hope and greater guidance and greater transforming power and greater Christ-exalting truth than can be heard through any voice in any human soul on the planet from outside the Bible.

____________________________________


This is why I found the article in Christianity Today, “My Conversation with God,” so sad. Written by an anonymous professor at a “well-known Christian University,” it tells of his experience of hearing God. What God said was that he must give all his royalties from a new book toward the tuition of a needy student. What makes me sad about the article is not that it isn’t true or didn’t happen. What’s sad is that it really does give the impression that extra-biblical communication with God is surpassingly wonderful and faith-deepening. All the while, the supremely glorious communication of the living God which personally and powerfully and transformingly explodes in the receptive heart through the Bible everyday is passed over in silence.

I am sure this professor of theology did not mean it this way, but what he actually said was, “For years I’ve taught that God still speaks, but I couldn’t testify to it personally. I can only do so now anonymously, for reasons I hope will be clear” (emphasis added). Surely he does not mean what he seems to imply — that only when one hears an extra-biblical voice like, “The money is not yours,” can you testify personally that God still speaks. Surely he does not mean to belittle the voice of God in the Bible which speaks this very day with power and truth and wisdom and glory and joy and hope and wonder and helpfulness ten thousand times more decisively than anything we can hear outside the Bible.

I grieve at what is being communicated here. The great need of our time is for people to experience the living reality of God by hearing his word personally and transformingly in Scripture. Something is incredibly wrong when the words we hear outside Scripture are more powerful and more affecting to us than the inspired word of God. Let us cry with the psalmist, “Incline my heart to your word” (Psalm 119:36). “Open my eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of your law” (Psalm 119:18). Grant that the eyes of our hearts would be enlightened to know our hope and our inheritance and the love of Christ that passes knowledge and be filled with all the fullness of God (Ephesians 1:18; 3:19). O God, don’t let us be so deaf to your word and so unaffected with its ineffable, evidential excellency that we celebrate lesser things as more thrilling, and even consider this misplacement of amazement worthy of printing in a national magazine.

Still hearing his voice in the Bible,

Pastor John

 

[SkyWriting]

Something is incredibly wrong when the words we hear outside Scripture are more powerful and more affecting to us than the inspired word of God.

God speaks through his answering of your prayers before time began.
See details below.

 

[JM]

God speaks through his answering of your prayers before time began.
See details below.

Amen. I would agree with that. I would not agree that God gives us fresh revelation - God speaks to us in His word. You want a fresh word from God? Read His word until you understand it - then do it.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[SkyWriting]

Amen. I would agree with that. I would not agree that God gives us fresh revelation - God speaks to us in His word. You want a fresh word from God? Read His word until you understand it - then do it.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

We can receive fresh revelation one we have woken up.
But God exists outside of time.

 

[JM]

We can receive fresh revelation one we have woken up.
But God exists outside of time.

That isn't what Baptists and most Protestants believe. That would be a modern Charismatic teaching. For Baptists we believe the scriptures are the final word from God, in them are contain the revelation of His will to His people, so if you want to know what God has to say about something learn your scriptures! If the scriptures do not address the issue you must learn to think scripturally.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Bluesh1ft]

I think God does what he wants, and doesn't contradict his nature as revealed in the Bible. The Bible is our guaranteed source to know more about God, and to be closer to him. However, If God wants to, he can speak to others in many different ways, even with a discernible auditory voice.

If we believe Paul's testimony about the voice he heard, then where does it say it that anything similar can't happen again?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Both.

God does NOT speak to anyone in the manner of the prophets of 'those days' directing 'new' information. The basic and standard instructions are in place, in scripture.

God does help me find my keys at times. And He encourages me when I need it. Not to mention corrects me when I'm getting out of line. Typically it is the still, small voice in my head. On one occasion it was more of a loudspeaker in my skull.

 

[LoveofTruth]

God speaks...through scripture alone.

not so, as scripture itself teaches us. Yes, he does speak through the scripture to us but that speaking is inward in the spirit. here are just a few verses to consider for all today.

"10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." (1 Cor 2:10,11 KJV)

Hebrews 3:15
"While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts," (Hebrews 3:15 KJV)

So where does God speak? in the heart as it is written.

"27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (1 John 2:27 KJV)

Romans 8:16
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

Luke 24:45
"Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,..."

Hebrews 13:20,21
"20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."

Ephesians 4:15,16
"15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

Jesus Christ is in every true believer speaking and if he is not we are none of his.

John 15:4,5
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." ( John 15:4,5 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

What’s sad is that it really does give the impression that extra-biblical communication with God is surpassingly wonderful and faith-deepening. All the while, the supremely glorious communication of the living God which personally and powerfully and transformingly explodes in the receptive heart through the Bible everyday is passed over in silence.

When we say we hear God in our hearts and His Spirit bears witness with our spirit we are by no means saying that scriptures are somehow not as important. God spoke by His Spirit through men to write scripture. I values scripture so highly and it is the authority in the spirit as we go forth. To hold fast the faithful word and to reprove rebuke and exhort with scatter is vital. But the only way to understand scripture is to be in the Spirit. No man even knows anything of God but by the Spirit.

Jesus said to the religious pharisees ( who are like many today)

John 5:39
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

If they had known Jesus inwardly they would have saw him all through the scriptures and been able to truly understand the scriptures. For the Spirit of God would give understanding.

But some today have a form of godliness but deny the power. They have religious forms and ideas and excellency of speech but no power in the Lord. They walk after their own minds and traditions and teach for doctrines the commandments of men.

All believers must hear Jesus voice and that voice speaks in the heart. This is the starting point to have jesus open our understanding. For we don't know him now after the flesh but jesus Christ is in all believers 2 Cor 13:5. And jesus said this

John 10:27
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"

If men say they have never heard the voice of God at any time ( as some famous so called ministers do) then are they his sheep? or are they lost in a profession without having God in them?

I am sure this professor of theology did not mean it this way, but what he actually said was, “For years I’ve taught that God still speaks, but I couldn’t testify to it personally. I can only do so now anonymously, for reasons I hope will be clear” (emphasis added). Surely he does not mean what he seems to imply — that only when one hears an extra-biblical voice like, “The money is not yours,” can you testify personally that God still speaks. Surely he does not mean to belittle the voice of God in the Bible which speaks this very day with power and truth and wisdom and glory and joy and hope and wonder and helpfulness ten thousand times more decisively than anything we can hear outside the Bible.

Did Abraham hear God's voice without scripture? Did Noah, and Adam and Eve etc etc etc? Yes they did. Did every prophet who spoke God's words hear his voice? did they simply quote other scriptures or did they speak words that were scripture?

When the prophets in Corinth prophesied ( and they must have done this often in truth) Paul did not ave them write all the words down as scripture. No, God only put certain things in scripture for us.

I grieve at what is being communicated here.

You may not understand what is being c communicated. I cannot speak for another mans words or what he heard. But I have heard Gods voice many times. he will show me things direct me comfort me tell the future events even. I would share some of these miraculous events but you may not believe them or care. If you are interested I can share some.

The great need of our time is for people to experience the living reality of God by hearing his word personally and transformingly in Scripture.

As great a need as it is to hear holy scripture. The first great need is for men to hear God's voice today and be saved by the new birth, where Christ dwells in their hearts by faith. They will hear the scripture even before this and the reproofs and warnings and call to repentance and the gospel. But the moment Christ dwells in their heart is the miracle, and when His Spirit bears witness with their spirit that they are the children of God.

I agree 100 percent that all scripture is needful and profitable for doctrine correction instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

But i also believe there are three aspects to this perfecting, as we read in scripture.

How to be perfected

1. "Now the God of peace, ...21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."

2. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

3. "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"

All three are needed. First God in us perfecting us, and then the holy scriptures to make us perfect, then the body ministry for the perfecting of the saints. This ministry is also through all the body and not just the five fold gifts as we see in the same chapter in verses 4:15,16

If some say they have God only and don't need scripture, then they can be deceived and have no light in them . It others say they have scripture and don't need to hear God inwardly and have him work in them, then they are deceived also and are similar to the pharisees. If some say they have God in them and scripture but don't need the body, they are also deceived and are in danger of not being increased and edified the way God plans.

Something is incredibly wrong when the words we hear outside Scripture are more powerful and more affecting to us than the inspired word of God.

When the prophets heard Gods word in their hearts, they also had scripture to read as well. They did not have to make one greater than the other. It was the same word and witness in truth.

The pharisees thought they knew God and scripture. But they did not as Jesus said.

We need both the voice of God inwardly and his leading and will to guide and make us perfect and we need scripture as well in the Spirit to do this also. But if men did not have scruiture they can still hear God inwardly and have the inner witness. Think of all the men in the past who could not read or did not have bibles and yet heard a preacher and were saved. Does God abandon them now as they rot in a prison for their life without scripture? No God can and still does speak to them and gives them the comfort of the Holy Ghost. As many stories from history can be told.

Still hearing his voice in the Bible,

Pastor John

It is not a either or thing. If a believer hears Gods voice today in his heart, he should continue to read scripture in the spirit and let the anointing teach him all things. The Holy Ghost still guides into all truth .

 

[LoveofTruth]

Amen. I would agree with that. I would not agree that God gives us fresh revelation - God speaks to us in His word. You want a fresh word from God? Read His word until you understand it - then do it.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

but you have no scripture that God doesn't give revelation and prophecy and all the gifts today?

I have heard the so called cesstationist try and use a remote verse in Corinthians. But it says nothing to what they try and make it say.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Amen. I would agree with that. I would not agree that God gives us fresh revelation - God speaks to us in His word. You want a fresh word from God? Read His word until you understand it - then do it.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

The problem as you might be aware with your idea. Is that every group and cult and man made denomination of man of professing Christendom believe they have the right interpretation of scripture.

As you know all cannot be right. So how do we understand if a person says "well, I believe God can do anything even sin and lie", and they twist verses to make it say that, and another shows scripture which says God cannot lie. The point is that the witness is in the spirit and in the multitude of counsel in the body of Christ. These are two safeguards against heresy.

Some might say, "well, we have another safeguard, we have the history of proven men in our group from the past that have wrestled with the church in these issues and c rome to a conclusion as to what scripture means". But the same issue comes up, they all say that.

in the end it is an inward witness or warning that comes by Gods spirit as we consider the word and teachings. Babes are also unskilful in the word of righteousness and God gives gifts to the body for this reason and elders who have been proven and are more stable.

 

[LoveofTruth]

That isn't what Baptists and most Protestants believe. That would be a modern Charismatic teaching. For Baptists we believe the scriptures are the final word from God, in them are contain the revelation of His will to His people, so if you want to know what God has to say about something learn your scriptures! If the scriptures do not address the issue you must learn to think scripturally.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

So in your understanding you cannot hear from God as to what women to marry, or what job you should take in a option of two, or where to preach, or how to?, or what to share with the lost when you don't understand their questions? Your God doesn't teach you by His Spirit and you must learn from your own knowledge?

But scripture says no man can know anything about God ( even through scripture in the truest sense) except by the Spirit of God. And the anointing teaches believers all things ( not just some things)

Can your God guide you in all life matters if you ask him> and when you say yes he can and by scripture? i ask can he guide you in matters that may not be specific in scripture, like what job to take where to minister, who to pray for? if he does, how does he do this?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Both.

God does NOT speak to anyone in the manner of the prophets of 'those days' directing 'new' information. The basic and standard instructions are in place, in scripture.

God does help me find my keys at times. And He encourages me when I need it. Not to mention corrects me when I'm getting out of line. Typically it is the still, small voice in my head. On one occasion it was more of a loudspeaker in my skull.

There is no scripture that says God doesn't speak through prophets today. In fact we have prophets after the resurrection for the church Eph 4:11, and Acts 13 we see prophets in the church. In 1 Cor 14 we read of prophets speaking two or three.We also read of the last tow prophets who are killed in Jerusalem in the book of revelation.

If some take your words there to be true they would reject any man who was a prophet even the last two witnesses.

But there is no scripture to say the prophets and apostles have ceased

 

[OzSpen]

Both.

God does NOT speak to anyone in the manner of the prophets of 'those days' directing 'new' information. The basic and standard instructions are in place, in scripture.

God does help me find my keys at times. And He encourages me when I need it. Not to mention corrects me when I'm getting out of line. Typically it is the still, small voice in my head. On one occasion it was more of a loudspeaker in my skull.

Archie,

If I accept your view that God does NOT speak to anyone with 'new' information but that his standard instructions are through Scripture, there is NT Scripture that creates a conflict. The view is self-defeating.

I'm thinking of a verse such as 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV), which describes what happened in the gathering of a first century church (generally a house church): 'What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up'.

Here the Scripture teaches that in the Christian gathering, some may have the gift of 'a revelation', an apokalupsis, which is also in 1 Cor 14:6. It is a kind of utterance from the Spirit that benefits the people in the gathering. I don't think these verses make it clear what the difference is among knowledge, prophecy or revelation. It obviously is a gift of the Spirit that is available to the people of God when they are gathered.

Therefore, to say that God does not speak except through Scripture, means that I have to listen to what the Scriptures state. In these, two verses (as examples), the Scriptures teach that God can speak beyond Scripture, by apokalupsis, Holy Spirit revelation.

Oz

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Archie,

If I accept your view that God does NOT speak to anyone with 'new' information but that his standard instructions are through Scripture, there is NT Scripture that creates a conflict. The view is self-defeating.

Not all all. Your understand of the Bible and my comments is less than coherent.

No revelation or inspirations such as mentioned in 1st Corinthians 14 refutes, contradicts or otherwise supersedes ANYTHING already given. Such a revelation may have specific information for an individual or an individual group, but is nothing to be added to the extant message of God already in the Bible.

 

[OzSpen]

Not all all. Your understand of the Bible and my comments is less than coherent.

No revelation or inspirations such as mentioned in 1st Corinthians 14 refutes, contradicts or otherwise supersedes ANYTHING already given. Such a revelation may have specific information for an individual or an individual group, but is nothing to be added to the extant message of God already in the Bible.

Archie,

The fact remains that when God gives a 'revelation' to someone in a church group (supported by the Scriptures I've provided), God is speaking to that person with a message for the group that is other than that in the Bible.

Oz

 

[LoveofTruth]

Archie,

The fact remains that when God gives a 'revelation' to someone in a church group (supported by the Scriptures I've provided), God is speaking to that person with a message for the group that is other than that in the Bible.

Oz

This is true and also prophecy and doctrine etc. God often can show deep things to any who he is working through. If some were to say that God cannot show any new things in scripture that some have missed, then they would rebuke the Protestants who showed many new aspects of revelation from scripture. The Catholics might have used the argument that there is nothing new in doctrine to be discovered etc or any revelations. But this would not be true.

Even though Peter james john and many of the people who learned directly from jesus for years knew Him and walked with him. Jesus said that the Holy Ghost would lead them into all truth in the future. Paul had to correct peter who was to be blamed and Paul had many revelations and based on scripture.

Even though Paul and other ministers had prophecy and revelations and doctrine revealed. Paul said that those who examined what he said by scripture were noble.

And 1 Cor 14 is nowhere said to have ceased in any scriptures.

The time when we will see Christ c=face to face and be know him even as we are known is when we get a glorified body and are unto the perfect man.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Archie,

If I accept your view that God does NOT speak to anyone with 'new' information but that his standard instructions are through Scripture, there is NT Scripture that creates a conflict. The view is self-defeating.

No, many people in Christ can have new understandings of scripture that are revealed as well. And God leads men in all things in their lives, if we are listening he is speaking in the stall small voice in our harts and all those that are led by the Spirit are the Sons of God.

Many people in history have simply heard the basic message of the gospel and learned about jesus by word of mouth, yet they are still able to be led of God even if they didn't have the scriptures.

Think of all the people who can not read and all the younger people and retarded people and sick etc and elderly who cannot read and then think of Abraham who had no scripture and was led of God and knew God. I could speak to many of these situations.

Even though I highly value scripture and all things must be examined by scripture. Scripture alone without the Spirit makes a person like the pharisees. jesus said to them search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life but they are they which testify of me. He told them they neither know the scriptures or the power of God. Yet they, like many today would think they are experts at the scriptures and know languages and many things, but they were not and did not know even the Lord right n front of them.

Knowing Jesus in the heart and the gosple will be based on scripture.

 

[OzSpen]

No, many people in Christ can have new understandings of scripture that are revealed as well. And God leads men in all things in their lives, if we are listening he is speaking in the stall small voice in our harts and all those that are led by the Spirit are the Sons of God.

Many people in history have simply heard the basic message of the gospel and learned about jesus by word of mouth, yet they are still able to be led of God even if they didn't have the scriptures.

Think of all the people who can not read and all the younger people and retarded people and sick etc and elderly who cannot read and then think of Abraham who had no scripture and was led of God and knew God. I could speak to many of these situations.

Even though I highly value scripture and all things must be examined by scripture. Scripture alone without the Spirit makes a person like the pharisees. jesus said to them search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life but they are they which testify of me. He told them they neither know the scriptures or the power of God. Yet they, like many today would think they are experts at the scriptures and know languages and many things, but they were not and did not know even the Lord right n front of them.

Knowing Jesus in the heart and the gosple will be based on scripture.

The apokalupsis (revelation) as a gift of the Spirit is not some new understanding of Scripture. Scripture means the same always (although more precise interpretations can be discovered), but the 'revelation' as a gift of the Spirit is a driving force behind the gift of prophecy.

1 Cor 14:6 (NIV) states, 'Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?'

Godet in his commentary on 1 Corinthians 14:6 gave sound insight into the gift of 'revelation' when he stated that it 'is a sudden and lively perception, produced by the Spirit's operation, of some aspect of the Divine mystery, the work of salvation; this view, immediately expressed in its first freshness, forms prophecy (ver. 27)' (Godet 1977:699). It will not contradict Scripture but may provide some special insight.

It seems that in 1 Cor 14:6 we have (1) a combination of revelations and prophecy, and (2) a combined knowledge and instruction. This led Charles Hodge to stated that 'revelation and prophecy belong to one; and knowledge and doctrine to the other. He who received revelations was a prophet, he who had "the word of knowledge" was a teacher' (Hodge 1974:282).

Oz

Works consulted
Godet, F L 1977. Commentary on First Corinthians. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Kregel Publications.

Hodge, C 1974. A commentary on 1 & 2 Corinthians. Edinburgh/Carlisle, Pennsylvania: The Banner of Truth.