The Proof That Trees Have Souls

[VanillaSunflowers]

Romans 8 has a number of scriptures that relate to nature and its emotional reactions.
Does that require a soul? Or the spirit of God?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

You expect people fond of bonfires to like you after this? Huh?

I was fond of bonfires. ______________________________________________________________________once.

Vanilla, did any of them object? I think it may be a tree's dream to be a nice piece of furniture or a cherry fire to brighten the hearts of the onlookers.

Or it could be trees never give any of this any thought at all.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

That's 5 minutes I'll never get back after reading through this post....

 

[rockytopva]

During the last week of school Robert Sheffey took all seventeen of his students for a creekside walk so they might observe and appreciate the wonders of nature as he did. He found that many of them did so already, while still others seemed hardly aware of the beauties around them. The latter group complained of the foolishness of wandering about the meadows and stream – complained with more vigor than they would have dared use had not it been the last day of school. Robert realized, too, that some of the malcontents would be backed up by their parents, who would be just as happy having the children at home, preparing the gardens for planting. Nevertheless, he tried to make the nature study interesting. During his walking lectures he told of the parts that melting snow and sunshine played in the growth of budding plants and leafing trees.

Once, as he stopped to make a point, he noticed that half his class was missing. Looking down Cripple Creek, he could observe several of the boys trying to make a dam by breaking off tree limbs and stacking them in the path of a tributary branch emptying into Cripple Creek.

“You musn’t break the tree’s limbs unless you intend to put them to good use!” Robert called sternly. “They are living things just like you and me. How would you like somebody to twist your arms off?”

Some of the children bowed their heads in shame, and others snickered. Robert did not chastise them further, but walked to the nearest tree and placed his arms about it. “I love the trees,” he said. “God made them and breathed a special kind of life into them. If we tear away their limbs and strip them of their bark they will surely die and lose their very special voice of praise.” - From Jess Carr's Saint of the Wilderness

 

[Bible2+]

Luke 17:6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

Isaiah 55:12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

-

Regarding the idea of trees, and everything else, having consciousness, materialists think that consciousness can involve only that which is physical, and that it arises by having a certain number of neuronal connections in one's brain. So some scientists could be trying to create a supercomputer with enough neural network connections so that (they hope) it will become conscious. But the Bible shows that humans are more than just physical bodies (1 Thessalonians 5:23), and that human souls can have consciousness outside of their bodies, whether their bodies are still alive (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) or have died (Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 16:22b-23). Also, angels have consciousness, even though they are referred to simply as "spirits" (Hebrews 1:7).

So consciousness per se isn't something which requires a certain number of neuronal connections, but can be based on something even more fundamental: spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23). All consciousness being ultimately based on spirit would make sense, for God is an infinite Spirit and an infinite consciousness (John 4:24, Psalms 139:7-10, Jeremiah 23:24). And if spirit is the same as consciousness, then every kind of created thing can have some consciousness (Revelation 5:13, Mark 4:39-41, Luke 17:6, Matthew 17:20), for everything exists within God (Acts 17:28), having been brought into and maintained in existence by God's Spirit (Psalms 104:30).

A scientific way to think of this would be that the relationship between the spiritual and the physical may be analogous to the relationship between energy and matter. Just as the relationship of energy to matter is summarized by the equation e=mc^2, which means that immense amounts of energy are congealed and compacted, as it were, in order to form each tiny particle of matter, so the relationship between spirit and energy could theoretically be summarized by, for example, the equation s=ec^3, meaning that immense amounts of spirit may be congealed and compacted, as it were, in order to form each tiny photon of energy. And if all matter is based on energy, and all energy is based on spirit, and all spirit is consciousness, then all matter is ultimately based on consciousness, and so all matter can have some consciousness. This would explain how a puff of wind, a wave of water, a tree, or a mountain can obey a human command (Mark 4:39-41, Luke 17:6, Matthew 17:20), and how every kind of created thing can worship God (Revelation 5:13, Psalms 148).

 

[ImaginaryDay]

smh... Gnosticism at its best.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

{non-relevant citations excised}Regarding the idea of trees, and everything else, having consciousness, materialists think that consciousness can involve only that which is physical, and that it arises by having a certain number of neuronal connections in one's brain. So some scientists could be trying to create a supercomputer with enough neural network connections so that (they hope) it will become conscious.

So it seems. So far, without success.

But the Bible shows that humans are more than just physical bodies (1 Thessalonians 5:23), and that human souls can have consciousness outside of their bodies, whether their bodies are still alive (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) or have died (Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 16:22b-23). Also, angels have consciousness, even though they are referred to simply as "spirits" (Hebrews 1:7).

I agree with this observation as well.

So consciousness per se isn't something which requires a certain number of neuronal connections, but can be based on something even more fundamental: spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

1st Thessalonians 5:23 reads, "Now may the God of peace himself make you completely holy and may your spirit and soul andbody be kept entirely blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." I'll go along with 'humans are more than bodies', but this shows no connection between 'spirit' and 'consciousness'.

Genesis 2:7 provides a greater argument on the subject. When God imbued the then lifeless body with the 'breath of life', that lifeless body became 'alive' and conscious. Reading the footnotes regarding this event, the words describing the 'life' of animals and plants is different - different word being used - than humans.

Animals seem to have some degree of consciousness - they seem to be self aware in some cases (dogs and dolphins more than goldfish or amoeba; but human science cannot be certain right now). This does not mean they have 'souls' in the spiritual sense as humans. Certainly the Bible does not anywhere instruct us to 'preach' to animals.

All consciousness being ultimately based on spirit would make sense, for God is an infinite Spirit and an infinite consciousness (John 4:24, Psalms 139:7-10, Jeremiah 23:24).

That's a opinion, based on your personal conclusion. I don't care to argue against it right now, but I can see where the idea may not have universal and unwavering support.

And if spirit is the same as consciousness...

Good you put the 'if' in that clause, 2+ ...

...then every kind of created thing can have some consciousness ...

Good you wrote 'can' and not 'does'.

(Revelation 5:13, Mark 4:39-41, Luke 17:6, Matthew 17:20)...

Have nothing to do with consciousness. The verses relate instances where God manipulated various 'things', some with 'life' and some without life. Sorry, these do not connect and do not support your contention.

... for everything exists within God (Acts 17:28), having been brought into and maintained in existence by God's Spirit (Psalms 104:30).

By this argument, that would include rocks and dirt. I have met people where were - seemingly - dumb as dirt, but they were in fact, human beings (and more or less functional).

A scientific way to think of this would be that the relationship between the spiritual and the physical may be analogous to the relationship between energy and matter. Just as the relationship of energy to matter is summarized by the equation e=mc^2, which means that immense amounts of energy are congealed and compacted, as it were, in order to form each tiny particle of matter, so the relationship between spirit and energy could theoretically be summarized by, for example, the equation s=ec^3, meaning that immense amounts of spirit may be congealed and compacted, as it were, in order to form each tiny photon of energy.

No. Not at all. The established equation you cite demonstrates energy and matter to be the same thing, at a basic level. Your 'extension' argument then demonstrates 'spirit' and 'body' to be the same thing. Or, as with energy and matter, the same basic substance in two different states. I do not agree, and see no Biblical or scientific support for the claim.

And if all matter is based on energy, and all energy is based on spirit...

Nope. Once again, you have 'leaped' from an established connection to a surmise and attempted - in the sentence - to connect them as related. Sorry, that doesn't work. Therefore, your conclusion shown:

...and all spirit is consciousness, then all matter is ultimately based on consciousness, and so all matter can have some consciousness.

Is invalid. It just does not connect up with logic, evidence or actual Biblical support.

I like your exploratory thinking on the subject, but you'll have to find something - evidence or better Bible text - that actually supports what you think here. (I don't think you will, but YOU do the research.)

This would explain how a puff of wind, a wave of water, a tree, or a mountain can obey a human command (Mark 4:39-41, Luke 17:6, Matthew 17:20), and how every kind of created thing can worship God (Revelation 5:13, Psalms 148).

Actually, a better and simpler explanation for the passages you cite is that Jesus IS God and all nature is subject to God's command, conscious or not.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Did I miss it, or did Rocky ever tell us what the tree said to Jesus? Or the 'hidden' secrets in the passage he cited?

 

[rockytopva]

Did I miss it, or did Rocky ever tell us what the tree said to Jesus? Or the 'hidden' secrets in the passage he cited?

The sermon is in the OP. In it you will find the hidden mystery.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

The sermon is in the OP. In it you will find the hidden mystery.

In it, one finds a Bible passage, a questionable statement or two and a Gnostic attitude about 'hidden meaning'.

So far, nothing of particular value.

What did the tree say?

 

[rockytopva]

Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. - Matthew 10:29

Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? - Luke 12:6

I do not believe that the animals depart this world without the heavenly father. What becomes of them I know not. But there is a difference between man and all other forms of life here on earth.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: - Hebrews 9:27

Mankind will have to stand before God in judgement, the rest of the creation will not.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I believe trees do indeed have souls.

...the soul is the principle of life.


http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/do-animals-have-souls-like-human-beings

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Well, that "Catholic Answer" made things clear as mud...

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Are not two sparrows ...

In other words, you don't have a clue in the world.

 

[chilehed]

The soul is the principle that animates a material body. Trees have a material body and are alive, therefore they have souls.

 

[Archivist]

If trees don't have legs and don't have feet, how can they have soles?

 

[ImaginaryDay]

...the principle that animates a material body...

Explain this. I read the link a few posts ago that made no sense at all. Maybe you can help. I'm just at a loss to grasp what we're alluding to here.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

What?

 

[98cwitr]

Interesting thought.... Jesus talked to a tree! Even answering it as the tree talked to him first!

Do mountains have souls if they can be moved by faith?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Explain this. I read the link a few posts ago that made no sense at all. Maybe you can help. I'm just at a loss to grasp what we're alluding to here.

Just think of it this way -that any living thing that is animated, has a soul. How else would trees grow?