Did Gnosticism Influence Islam?

[Chesterton]

This isn't an attack thread, just a thought on something I've noticed.

The Gnostics didn't like the material world; felt it was evil. The list of material things Muslims have a problem with is very long. They don't care for music, art, wine, pork, dogs (or at least their saliva, I've been told), women's bodies, the uncleanness of the human body in general.

Allah is great, but they don't seem to find much greatness in what Allah created.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

This isn't an attack thread, just a thought on something I've noticed.

Right....

The Gnostics didn't like the material world; felt it was evil.

The material world isn't evil. What's bad (and should be avoided) is that which makes us turn away from God even if it's something that is, on its own, permissible in Islaam. And, of course, disobeying God is really, really bad.

Anyway, He did not say we cannot enjoy the material world. We are warned, however, that this world is a fleeting enjoyment. It is the Hereafter that is forever.

The list of material things Muslims have a problem with is very long.

The list of material things we don't have a problem with is even longer.

They don't care for music, art, wine, pork, dogs (or at least their saliva, I've been told), women's bodies,

Music: We're fine with music as long as it doesn't involve musical instruments with the exception of something called the daff.

Art: We like art. We just don't make images of living things with souls.

Wine: Yes, we avoid it. Thank God.

Pork: ditto

Dogs' saliva: it's not evil, it's impure (i.e. ritually impure).

Womens' bodies: I can't say that I care for womens' bodies (beyond, of course, caring for their health and well-being), but who says that Muslim men do not care for them? They are just forbidden from enjoying the bodies that are not permissible for them.

the uncleanness of the human body in general.

lol, we're supposed to dislike good hygiene?



Can non-Muslims make up their minds? We're either too in love with the material world or we don't like it enough. Sheesh.

 

[Chesterton]

Right....

I think it's a legitimate question. I see a similarity. And despite being illiterate, Muhammad was well-traveled and very knowledgeable.

 

[NannaNae]

This isn't an attack thread, just a thought on something I've noticed.

The Gnostics didn't like the material world; felt it was evil. The list of material things Muslims have a problem with is very long. They don't care for music, art, wine, pork, dogs (or at least their saliva, I've been told), women's bodies, the uncleanness of the human body in general.

Allah is great, but they don't seem to find much greatness in what Allah created.

yes and No, Baal worship did . but yes it is all blurry .
Mohammed chose one of Arabs and Palestinians ancestors, because they were ancestors worshippers they only had ancestors to pick as their one god.. The Baals were like their kings. these men were rich but didn't live that way. Baals actually it means owners/ business owners / country owners etc. MY understanding is that these original kings really were pretty good. they were just grandsons or great grandsons of Noah and knew what Noah knew.

so Mohammid picked one of these Ancestors/owners also known as great kings of old and also they were known as great world leaders of huge business interests like todays corporations.. at one time..

so He picks someones ancestors as their his main god and then blames the God of Abraham for all the stuff his dead ancestor can't have stop Him /and or them from doing.
you can do some research into what I just said.

 

[steve_bakr]

yes and No, Baal worship did . but yes it is all blurry .
Mohammed chose one of Arabs and Palestinians ancestors, because they were ancestors worshippers they only had ancestors to pick as their one god.. The Baals were like their kings. these men were rich but didn't live that way. Baals actually it means owners/ business owners / country owners etc. MY understanding is that these original kings really were pretty good. they were just grandsons or great grandsons of Noah and knew what Noah knew.

so Mohammid picked one of these Ancestors/owners also known as great kings of old and also they were known as great world leaders of huge business interests like todays corporations.. at one time..

so He picks someones ancestors as their his main god and then blames the God of Abraham for all the stuff his dead ancestor can't have stop Him /and or them from doing.
you can do some research into what I just said.

Where does this information come from? I'm guessing not a Muslim source. Be that as it may, Allah in the Quran is the God of Abraham.

 

[Arthra]

I've studied Gnosticism... and read the Nag Hammadi Scrolls as well as the Pistis Sophia and studied Manichaeism as well.. I think it is more likely Gnosticism had a strong influence on Christianity.. Especially the other worldly character and asceticism of some of the saints..

 

[NannaNae]

It is one of his dead ancestors.
there is no one who will ever confuse Allah and Jesus because they are not the same and Jesus is Abraham's God . no one will ever confuse Jesus and Allah . or do they again confuse Jesus and Tammuz ?


The Oldest Reference to Allah | Walid ShoebatWalid Shoebat
The Arabs were all ancestor worshiping people.
Mohammid picked one of the god's they worshipped among thousands as His one true god and and then gives him the honors and strengths and history of Abraham's real God. that is all Mohammed's doing.
It is not the same god. Allah is someone dead ancestor that can't answers their prayers.
They pray to dead ancestors and do as they please when dead ancestors can't answer them or stop them .
Then blame our God for it .

no one will ever confuse Allah and Jesus.
Jesus/Jehovah was Abrahams God.
Jesus was the only one they had dealt with.
the one who knows the laws of eyes so well.. He spits and makes eyes with mud ,
just like he did on the first 6th day..
no Allah never did that , no prophet of allah ever did that .
He may have poked millions of eyes out ,
or people in his name sure did it..
but Allah never created one eye.
no one will ever confuse Jesus/Jehovah and Allah.
you have to be very very confused to get those two mixed up.
no darlin they are not the same.

 

[football5680]

Many of the stories about Jesus in the Quran come from Gnosticism. Gnostics believed that Jesus was not crucified and what the people saw was simply an illusion. The Quran says that Jesus was not killed or crucified but Allah made it appear like he was. This is problematic because Allah knowingly deceived all the followers of Jesus who would then go out and teach that Jesus was crucified for our sins. In Islam Jesus began his public career as an infant and would have been preaching Islam for about 30 years before Allah took him. So Allah destroyed all the work that Jesus did for 30 years by deceiving all his followers. Simply taking Jesus away would have been sufficient but instead, Allah the Greatest Deceiver decided to create the worlds largest false religion according to the Quran. If this Islamic Jesus existed then there is no evidence for it and this is also problematic because the Quran said that the true followers of Jesus became uppermost and the only form of Christianity that became uppermost was the form that said Jesus is the son of God, he died for our sins and then was resurrected. Many early Muslims who wrote commentaries on the Quran said that this verse was in reference to Christianity taking over the Roman Empire and they believed exactly what I believe today.

 

[steve_bakr]

It is one of his dead ancestors.
there is no one who will ever confuse Allah and Jesus because they are not the same and Jesus is Abraham's God . no one will ever confuse Jesus and Allah . or do they again confuse Jesus and Tammuz ?

The Oldest Reference to Allah | Walid ShoebatWalid Shoebat
The Arabs were all ancestor worshiping people.
Mohammid picked one of the god's they worshipped among thousands as His one true god and and then gives him the honors and strengths and history of Abraham's real God. that is all Mohammed's doing.
It is not the same god. Allah is someone dead ancestor that can't answers their prayers.
They pray to dead ancestors and do as they please when dead ancestors can't answer them or stop them .
Then blame our God for it .

no one will ever confuse Allah and Jesus.
Jesus/Jehovah was Abrahams God.
Jesus was the only one they had dealt with.
the one who knows the laws of eyes so well.. He spits and makes eyes with mud ,
just like he did on the first 6th day..
no Allah never did that , no prophet of allah ever did that .
He may have poked millions of eyes out ,
or people in his name sure did it..
but Allah never created one eye.
no one will ever confuse Jesus/Jehovah and Allah.
you have to be very very confused to get those two mixed up.
no darlin they are not the same.

So your source advertizes FOX NEWS and is a polemicist. One can just as easily say that the God of the Old Testament came from a plurality of gods and was violent and vengeful. It gets us nowhere, because alleged ancient sources of religions are primitive and do not converge with the God of Islam and Judaism and Christianity.

There is the issue of etymology. The Oldest Aramaic word for God is "El" which developed into "Elaha." Aramaic is the language of Jesus and is closely related to Arabic. It is believed that the oldest known manuscripts of the Bible contain more Arabic roots than Hebrew. Hebrew is also related to Arabic.

Since the Arabic word for God is "'llah" or "Allah," it isn't surprising that a mythological God would be called by a similar name. Etymology, however, does not establish a religio-causative connection.

That is the error that is made here, and you could make the same types of arguments about the God of the Old Testament, who is referred to as "the God of gods," suggesting a plurality of Gods.

So, where does that get us? Suffice it to say that the word for God in Arabic became the common name for God, and Muslim's say that "La illaha ila 'llah" ("There is no god but God (Allah)"), so there is no question of there being a plurality of gods in Islam.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I've studied Gnosticism... and read the Nag Hammadi Scrolls as well as the Pistis Sophia and studied Manichaeism as well.. I think it is more likely Gnosticism had a strong influence on Christianity.. Especially the other worldly character and asceticism of some of the saints..

Very likely considering that Gnosticism is a pre-Christian Alexandrine religion that adapted itself to Christianity once that came along.

What's also more likely is that there were many documents circulating around that hadn't been lost to time as of yet and Muhammad likely got his ideas from that. It's also likely that the reason Muhammad links Mary with the Trinity is due to the Collyridians who previously lived in Arabia at the time.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

The Gnostics didn't like the material world; felt it was evil.

I get frustrated when I see this being repeated here and other places. There was no monolithic GNOSTICISM competing against orthodox Christianity. What you actually had was a variety of differing sects, each with its own teacher and own set of scriptures, who frequently criticized each other.

Some Gnostics did see the world as the realm of the Enemy (Cathars, Sethians, Manichaeans). Some, such as Valentinus, would've taken great offense at that. He believed that incarnating into flesh is necessary for salvation and that creation is good but flawed.

 

[NannaNae]

Many of the stories about Jesus in the Quran come from Gnosticism. Gnostics believed that Jesus was not crucified and what the people saw was simply an illusion. The Quran says that Jesus was not killed or crucified but Allah made it appear like he was. This is problematic because Allah knowingly deceived all the followers of Jesus who would then go out and teach that Jesus was crucified for our sins. In Islam Jesus began his public career as an infant and would have been preaching Islam for about 30 years before Allah took him. So Allah destroyed all the work that Jesus did for 30 years by deceiving all his followers. Simply taking Jesus away would have been sufficient but instead, Allah the Greatest Deceiver decided to create the worlds largest false religion according to the Quran. If this Islamic Jesus existed then there is no evidence for it and this is also problematic because the Quran said that the true followers of Jesus became uppermost and the only form of Christianity that became uppermost was the form that said Jesus is the son of God, he died for our sins and then was resurrected. Many early Muslims who wrote commentaries on the Quran said that this verse was in reference to Christianity taking over the Roman Empire and they believed exactly what I believe today.

excellent !!!!

 

[gord44]

I get frustrated when I see this being repeated here and other places. There was no monolithic GNOSTICISM competing against orthodox Christianity. What you actually had was a variety of differing sects, each with its own teacher and own set of scriptures, who frequently criticized each other.

Some Gnostics did see the world as the realm of the Enemy (Cathars, Sethians, Manichaeans). Some, such as Valentinus, would've taken great offense at that. He believed that incarnating into flesh is necessary for salvation and that creation is good but flawed.

Good post. Also the Valentinian gnostics were lovers of the arts.

 

[NannaNae]

""I get frustrated when I see this being repeated here and other places. There was no monolithic GNOSTICISM competing against orthodox Christianity. What you actually had was a variety of differing sects, each with its own teacher and own set of scriptures, who frequently criticized each other. ""

you are right it is very frustrating.

but I think Gnosticism isn't a movement, but the results of the way sin in our memebers works out everything it knows is truth but doesnt want to believe in.
I think it is a way the hell between our ears deals with anything it doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand.......... it starts building boxes to put stuff in . and then labels everything to discredit/control it . hell , it really only believes in itself .

Now the tiniest boxes are like atheist who just decided to Pee on everything previous to their birth and believe only what their eyes thinks it sees.
hell , it only believes in itself. it justs build boxes for everything else it wishes to control or NOT believe in, no matter how true it is.

 

[gord44]

but I think Gnosticism isn't a movement.

no it's not a movement. gnosticism has been around long before Christianity and there is gnostic thought in most religions. the more 'orthodox' parts of a religion is always at odds with the more 'gnostic' parts.

 

[NannaNae]

no it's not a movement. gnosticism has been around long before Christianity and there is gnostic thought in most religions. the more 'orthodox' parts of a religion is always at odds with the more 'gnostic' parts.

yes isn't that what the Pharisee and Sadducees debates were really about .. how real or unreal god/spirit /life death was. but no matter how they controlled their boxes.. they still perform rites , of their religions like the meant it. but the boxes are outside of their actual beliefs.

Constantine and his pagan mom performed it and set up a whole new art of Gnostic paganism and did it all like they mean it..

***** STAFF EDIT *****

 

[steve_bakr]

yes isn't that what the Pharisee and Sadducees debates were really about .. how real or unreal god/spirit /life death was. but no matter how they controlled their boxes.. they still perform rites , of their religions like the meant it. but the boxes are outside of their actual beliefs.

Constantine and his pagan mom performed it and set up a whole new art of Gnostic paganism and did it all like they mean it..
and Mohammid all the stuff he knew and built the same boxes.. tiny bits of truth, a tons of lies in each box..
Joseph Smith etc. etc.
it's just the hell between our ears thing it does .

This is a simplistic picture painted with a broad brush. BTW, you're saying that Muhammad deliberately spread lies, and--well-- that's not supposed to be OK here.

 

[gord44]

yes isn't that what the Pharisee and Sadducees debates were really about .. how real or unreal god/spirit /life death was. but no matter how they controlled their boxes.. they still perform rites , of their religions like the meant it. but the boxes are outside of their actual beliefs.

Constantine and his pagan mom performed it and set up a whole new art of Gnostic paganism and did it all like they mean it..
and Mohammid all the stuff he knew and built the same boxes.. tiny bits of truth, a tons of lies in each box..
Joseph Smith etc. etc.
it's just the hell between our ears thing it does .

ahhh...no.

 

[dlamberth]

but I think Gnosticism isn't a movement,.. .

gnosticism (little g anyway) isn't a movement, it's a way of knowing and experiencing the Divine and life itSelf. Gnosticism has been around way longer than any of the monotheistic religions. All of the Earth based spiritual paths of the ancient past use gnosticism. Gnosticism is also a key element within all of the true mystic paths of today. Personally, I see no way one can go deeper into their spiritual union (if they desire that) with the Divine with out also exploring the gnostic approach.

.

 

[smaneck]

This isn't an attack thread, just a thought on something I've noticed.

The Gnostics didn't like the material world; felt it was evil. The list of material things Muslims have a problem with is very long. They don't care for music, art, wine, pork, dogs (or at least their saliva, I've been told), women's bodies, the uncleanness of the human body in general.

Allah is great, but they don't seem to find much greatness in what Allah created.

Most of things which Muslims regard as ritually unclean are considered unclean in Judaism as well, including pork, dogs, women during their menses, sperm, etc. Has nothing to do with gnosticism. Wine, of course, was prohibited because of the problems it caused. Music was discouraged because of its association with licentiousness in Arabia. As for art, there is plenty of art in the Islamic world they just don't usually depict humans or animals. In this they may have been influenced by the Iconoclastic Movement within the Byzantium at the time.

Some of the stories regarding Jesus can be found in gnostic gospels but that may just point to common origin in the oral tradition.