Should Christians touch?

[Nomarga]

Have fun repressing your sexuality.

 

[christiansincechildhood]

I honestly have to say I'm glad that I read through this thread and see actual discussion on the subject because often times reading and doing research proves futile without hearing different sides share their thoughts on the matter.

From what I've read, there are some parties, like the more conservatives who do regard it as a sin for the exact reasons that had previously been mentioned, but at the sime time I read that the liberals feel it isn't a sin so long as you don't use things like pornography and such to arouse yourself, again as mentioned in the discussion.

One thing that sort of confused me though is that the same readings from the liberals say that if your single, then the only thing you should think about while doing it is having intercourses with your future spouse... but that brings to mind the issue of unless you're engaged or plan to propose to a loved one, how do you even know who your future spouse would be and such?

Based on my own views I wouldn't necessarily think of it as a sin so much as say fornication or something, but I do doubt some of the "medical" benefits that supposedly come with doing it. I think I read in a book sometime ago that sex can relieve stress, help clear acne, is a good source of cardiovascular exercize, and is also beneficial to like prostate health in men... but can the same really be said for masturbation? From personal experiences of masturbating before, I could probably agree that maybe it's a good form of cardiovascular exercize, and maybe prostate health, but aside from that, I wouldn't say it relieves stress or clear acne... if you're stressed, as others have mentioned, yes it is a release, but I think it just simply takes an edge off the stress, but doesn't completely relieve it, and likewise, I've noticed I still suffered from acne... so yeah, actual sex probably has those benefits, but I don't think masturbation does.

And lastly, there's also the point that masturbation is considered a safe sex practice, and I think I can see that. So many people engage in fornication these days, and when you ask them why they compare it to test driving a car before you buy it... it kind of makes sense, but driving an automobile is completely different than sharing your life and your love with a spouse. Fornication isn't a safe sex practice, but in a way masturbation is, so I guess in general, masturbation should be encouraged as opposedto encouraging and advocating fornication. Besides, part of being married is to learn and love together, so of course your first time would be awkward, but you two would have the rest of your lives to work on it and "perfect" your intercourses (or even outercourses).

 

[dayhiker]

hi sincechildhood,
That's a very good summer. I thought I'd respond to a couple of ideas.
I don't think by saying masturbation relieves stress they were saying it would all be gone. After all, masturbation isn't likely to change the situation causing the stress. So I think you right about it just taking the edge off.
I don't think any sexual activity clears up acne. I've heard the suggestions, but don't get why they would change the chemistry of adolescence.

dayhiker

 

[iambren]

I'm a born again Christian male in my 50s. I discovered masturbation in the bathtub age 12, without any sexual ideation at all. My thought was "WOW, this feels great". No one had told me. I don't know if it was the innocense of that moment or what but I've not felt negative about it's being a natural part of my life.

It DOES relieve stress and sexual tension, which is good. I have even read where a man might touch before making love to his wife so that he can slow down a little and please his lady(who may be slower to the big "O"). How considerate!

It is also self-comforting and reminds me of an adult form of the childs sucking their thumb. Nothing wrong there. I do think that some Christians are overly wrought about sexual ideation. I don't give a hoot what a Christian thinks about when they touch, sexuality is so uniquely personal. Sex is not bad. Thinking about sex is not bad--so go for it! Yes, Jesus did admonish us to not LOOK, to prevent us from commiting ADULTERY. You can't commit adultery if you are single thinking about another single person. I believe this was a warning to the thought life to prevent MARRIAGES from being threatened. He KNOWS were going to be thinking of the opposite sex!

I used to touch much more often when I was younger. Now that I'm older my libido is lower and I mb less. However...I still force myself to do it every 1-2 weeks because it is healthier for the male prostate function. I feel sorry for people that are not comfortable with their bodies and sexuality and tie themselves into theological pretzels and guilt over something that is done SO widely in the human race. Life's hard enough that I don't think we need to sweat the small stuff. What a gift!

 

[ImperialPhantom]

This thread is just awful. The prevailing mentality appears to be that sex and sexual desires were merely a necessary evil in order to make for a way for a husband and wife to be united or to have children. It's as if, if there was another way to consummate a marriage besides sex, then God's work would have been more complete and sex would therefore become useless and a sin.

The reality is this: Sex was created by God, and so was sexual desire. God knows that we are all going to have sexual desires for others. So would He set us up for failure by making ALL sexual desire a sin (except for desiring 'sex with your future spouse' which is flawed in and of itself because nobody knows who their future spouse is going to be, therefore if you accidentally desire the wrong person because they don't end up being your future spouse, whoops, you just ended up sinning post ex facto)? Somehow I don't think He would, nor does the Bible. God designed us TO sexually desire other people. nobody is going to magically shut it all off until marriage

Purity and the desire for purity can, and often do, become total idolatry.

 

[highlife]

If you dont want prostate cancer you will MB or have sex.

 

[Created2Write]

This thread is just awful. The prevailing mentality appears to be that sex and sexual desires were merely a necessary evil in order to make for a way for a husband and wife to be united or to have children. It's as if, if there was another way to consummate a marriage besides sex, then God's work would have been more complete and sex would therefore become useless and a sin.

The reality is this: Sex was created by God, and so was sexual desire. God knows that we are all going to have sexual desires for others. So would He set us up for failure by making ALL sexual desire a sin (except for desiring 'sex with your future spouse' which is flawed in and of itself because nobody knows who their future spouse is going to be, therefore if you accidentally desire the wrong person because they don't end up being your future spouse, whoops, you just ended up sinning post ex facto)? Somehow I don't think He would, nor does the Bible. God designed us TO sexually desire other people. nobody is going to magically shut it all off until marriage

Purity and the desire for purity can, and often do, become total idolatry.

I agree with this.

In a case where a believer struggles with lust, or even if they just feel guilty or ashamed after masturbating, I would suggest they steer away from it. It truly isn't for everyone, and if it causes someone to stumble, might as well leave it out. However, that decision is a personal conviction. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't touch often at all, as I rarely feel the need to. My husband and I have sex often, so my sexual release is almost always a once a day/once every other day occurrence. Hubby, however, masturbates probably about once or twice a month, and he has a woman he can have sex with whenever he likes. If masturbation itself is a sin, then if my husband does it while thinking of me/looking at photos of me, HOW is it a sin? He can't commit adultery by lusting after his wife since, by definition, that's impossible, so if lust isn't an issue, the action itself would have to be a sin and I don't see how it is.

In my opinion, it's not the action that is a sin, but rather, the lust that CAN come with it. That doesn't mean lust will always come with it, just that it can for some people.

Bottom line is this: unless scripture can be provided that proves masturbation is a sin, then the issue is NOT the action itself, the issue is lust. Lust DOES NOT equate to masturbation, and masturbation does not equate to lust. They can, and do, live entirely outside of each other. A woman who sees a hot actor on T.V. and starts fantasizing about having sex with him is lusting, and masturbation isn't even a part of the equation. A man can touch while thinking about nothing, and that doesn't mean he's lusting.

 

[KeenanParkerII]

I'm more disappointed at the number of Christians trying to justify masturbation. Look, a man doesn't touch to potatoes (and if he did then he'd have an entirely different problem altogether). A man usually masturbates to an image of a woman, whether in his head or on a computer screen.

For us Christians who are part of the older, apostolic denominations, we have always taught that it is immoral. But for protestants looking for Biblical justification:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

We're all guilty of it, like really guilty. Just like we're all guilty of lying, cheating, maybe even stealing, turning our back on God. But it doesn't make it right. It was really strong of you to tell your boyfriend not to. It doesn't mean we're going to be perfect, but we ought to have enough moxy to give it our best shot. Jesus makes up for the rest.

 

[Created2Write]

I'm more disappointed at the number of Christians trying to justify masturbation. Look, a man doesn't touch to potatoes (and if he did then he'd have an entirely different problem altogether). A man usually masturbates to an image of a woman, whether in his head or on a computer screen.

And what qualifies you to speak for the majority of the male population of the planet? One guy here even said he discovered masturbation at twelve and had didn't even really know what it was. Others have attested to the same thing. Even my Pastor has encouraged masturbation amongst the young men in our church, which tells me that it is entirely possible for men to touch to nothing. So, would you mind proving that men "usually" touch to an image of a woman? Otherwise your statement here is an opinion, and nothing more.

For us Christians who are part of the older, apostolic denominations, we have always taught that it is immoral. But for protestants looking for Biblical justification:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Ahhh, this doesn't mention masturbation. This mentions lust, which is an entirely different thing altogether. Lust is a condition of the heart that can, sometimes, dictate our outward actions. However, masturbation is not necessarily coupled with lust. So, back to the top of the page, unless you can prove to me that masturbation and lust always go hand in hand, none of this is anything more than an opinion.

We're all guilty of it, like really guilty.

Really guilty of what? Lusting? Perhaps. You can't ever know that for sure since you aren't God, but I think it would be fair to say that most people have, most likely, had a lustful thought a time or two.

Just like we're all guilty of lying, cheating, maybe even stealing, turning our back on God. But it doesn't make it right. It was really strong of you to tell your boyfriend not to. It doesn't mean we're going to be perfect, but we ought to have enough moxy to give it our best shot. Jesus makes up for the rest.

Masturbation, in my opinion, is a personal conviction, same as alcohol. Some Christians view drinking any alcohol as a sin, others don't. The Bible does not say that masturbation(meaning strictly the act) is a sin. In fact, I have yet to find a verse that references it anywhere, at all. Lust, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, beastiality, orgies; those are listed as sins, but masturbation is not listed.

So, is it really the action that is the problem, or is it the lust that can sometimes come with it?

 

[iambren]

When it's all boiled down I think it swings on ones definition of the word lust. My view is if we encounter someone that we are tempted to have an affair with we should not dwell in our thoughts toward them. The reason is that those thoughts create a desire, that creates action leading to sin. So I see Jesus saying to nip it in the bud to prevent adultery ie He speaks of the slippery slope where sin will be committed.

So, I have NO problem with someone thinking of sex, or bodies making love in nature or whatever. I wouldn't want to create a potato fetish! lol

Here's what helps me get a perspective. Obviously God created us to have sexual thoughts. A young woman who worked at a nursery told me that children are very sexual. Puberty it explodes and SURELY a man has sexual thoughts, urges toward a woman that he has dated and soon may marry. Let's get real.

So the question: How do you think God intended sexual thought be managed before marriage?

 

[dayhiker]

I look at sexual thoughts are property issues. I'm not to think sexually of taking another man's woman. Other sexual thoughts are OK. Like how is one to read Song of Solomon and not think about how much they enjoyed each other bodies. If God didn't want us to have sexual thoughts, then SoS wouldn't be in the Bible.

 

[Created2Write]

I look at sexual thoughts are property issues. I'm not to think sexually of taking another man's woman. Other sexual thoughts are OK. Like how is one to read Song of Solomon and not think about how much they enjoyed each other bodies. If God didn't want us to have sexual thoughts, then SoS wouldn't be in the Bible.

Good point.

I think sexual thoughts, in and of themselves, are okay, as long as they don't involve a specific person. Thinking about sex itself, imo, is okay. Thinking about sex with the teenage girl down the street, not so much. Ya know?

 

[twins15]

I feel sorry for people that are not comfortable with their bodies and sexuality and tie themselves into theological pretzels and guilt over something that is done SO widely in the human race.

There are a lot of things that are widely done in the human race that I would not be comfortable doing.... Look at how many abortions are performed in the world, how many people use elicit drugs, or drink alcohol to excess, how many people have premarital sex or live with their SO before marriage... these things occur very frequently in the human race, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with any of them and would find them all to be sins.

ImperialPhantom]This thread is just awful. The prevailing mentality appears to be that sex and sexual desires were merely a necessary evil in order to make for a way for a husband and wife to be united or to have children. It's as if, if there was another way to consummate a marriage besides sex, then God's work would have been more complete and sex would therefore become useless and a sin.

The reality is this: Sex was created by God, and so was sexual desire. God knows that we are all going to have sexual desires for others. So would He set us up for failure by making ALL sexual desire a sin (except for desiring 'sex with your future spouse' which is flawed in and of itself because nobody knows who their future spouse is going to be, therefore if you accidentally desire the wrong person because they don't end up being your future spouse, whoops, you just ended up sinning post ex facto)? Somehow I don't think He would, nor does the Bible. God designed us TO sexually desire other people. nobody is going to magically shut it all off until marriage

Purity and the desire for purity can, and often do, become total idolatry

Hopefully nobody actually believes that sex and sexual desire is a "necessary evil"... it is a great gift given by God. Sex within marriage can be a great taste of heaven, as well as a total sacrifice of self to your partner. It is a renewal of the marriage sacrament.

Masturbation is a completely disordered way of expressing and showing that sexual desire which has been put into us by God. It is self-centered, and turns sexuality into self-indulgence rather than self-giving.

Masturbation, in my opinion, is a personal conviction, same as alcohol. Some Christians view drinking any alcohol as a sin, others don't. The Bible does not say that masturbation(meaning strictly the act) is a sin. In fact, I have yet to find a verse that references it anywhere, at all. Lust, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, beastiality, orgies; those are listed as sins, but masturbation is not listed

Masturbation by name is not listed, but "spilling seed" is. Genesis 38:9, Onan is killed for spilling his seed, as obviously is done in masturbation.

If you dont want prostate cancer you will MB or have sex.

Someone tell Catholic priests!!! They must be dying by the thousands of prostate cancer!

Not masturbating is not about repressing sexual desires... I will just use a quote since they can explain it better than me:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"When sexual feelings, desires, and temptations present themselves, as they inevitably do, instead of trying to ignore them or "stuff" them by pushing them down and under, we need to bring them up and out. Not up and out in the sense of indulging them, but up and out and into the hands of Christ our Redeemer. You might simply say a prayer such as this:

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lord Jesus, I give you my sexual desires. Please undo in me what sin has done so that I might know freedom in this area and experience sexual desire as you intend. Amen.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The more we invite Christ into our passions and desires and allow him to purify them, the more we find we're able to exercise proper control of them. And we begin more and more to experience our sexuality, not as the desire for selfish gratification but as the desire to give ourselves away in imitation of Christ. This is what redemption is all about."[/FONT]

 

[OGM]

Let me see, masturbation involves:
1) A sexual act that is not an expression of love to one’s wife.
2) Sexually charged thoughts that would be a sin if acted upon in real-life.
3) The "waste of seed".


Nocturnal emissions involve:
1) A sexual act that is not an expression of love to one’s wife.
2) Sexually charged thoughts that would be a sin if acted upon in real-life.
3) The "waste of seed".

 

[iambren]

Created and Dayhiker, I like the whole "property" idea. My slight discomfort is that it is hard to get excited over something not seen, or even to create a fantasy without material not previously gathered. I would venture that it is darn near impossible for a man to go to a beach and have NO sexual feelings arise.

My view is that the concept of lust=adultery taught by Jesus is a little overworked. Blinders on our heads is not the point, it's the concious raising that He wanted to see the battle ground of the heart where it can be lost, before the act.

In the Sermon on the Mount He was also addressing the Pharisees and their slavish-rule mentality, and directs us to our heart. It also says if your angry for no reason, or call someone a fool we are in danger of hellfire. I don't see that brought up much. So sexual thoughts are cool; we just have to manage them. If David had gone out on his porch, seen Bathsheba and thought "Hot babe!" that's ok. But when he nurtured those thoughts to a fearsome lust that he had to have her is what did him in. He was ensnared and THAT'S what I think Jesus meant.

 

[twins15]

Let me see, masturbation involves:
1) A sexual act that is not an expression of love to one’s wife.
2) Sexually charged thoughts that would be a sin if acted upon in real-life.
3) The "waste of seed".


Nocturnal emissions involve:
1) A sexual act that is not an expression of love to one’s wife.
2) Sexually charged thoughts that would be a sin if acted upon in real-life.
3) The "waste of seed".

One of these is voluntary, the other is involuntary.

 

[OGM]

One of these is voluntary, the other is involuntary.

So let me this straight, the human male will do the above mentioned A, B & C whether he wants this to happen or not.

If the release is voluntary; it is a sin because of the "thoughts" generated. Although since the thoughts are voluntary, the thoughts can be controlled.

If it is involuntary it is not a sin even though the "thoughts" are often much more explicit and are about as controllable as a detonated hydrogen bomb.

So if you take no action the body might preform a release at an inappropriate time and place. If you take action the body will perform the release at a controlled time and place.

If you go all day without removing waste from your body and go to sleep the body might release itself at an inappropriate time. If you go to the bathroom when the urge is there you probably can prevent an unscheduled release.

The urge to release waste is involuntary. The bodies manufacturing of sperm is also involuntary, correct? In other words it can't be turned off completely by will power. Nocturnal Emission occurs because excess sperm needs to be...released as waste. Excess solid and liquids waste is also...released.

If you control the release of some forms of excessive waste it is a sin. It you control the release of another form of waste (sperm) that shares the same plumbing as the liquid waste, it is sin? Even though voluntary and involuntary release of said both involve... let me get this straight...sexual release that does not involve a wife... only "self".

Got it. Thank you for your patience.

 

[highlife]

I am pretty sure that its medically proven that nocternal emmissions do not relieve enough sperm to prevent prostate cancer. A nocternal emmission does not release nearly as much sperm as an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

 

[twins15]

So let me this straight, the human male will do the above mentioned A, B & C whether he wants this to happen or not.

If the release is voluntary; it is a sin because of the "thoughts" generated. Although since the thoughts are voluntary, the thoughts can be controlled.

If it is involuntary it is not a sin even though the "thoughts" are often much more explicit and are about as controllable as a detonated hydrogen bomb.

Nocturnal emissions do not actively involve a sexual act or active sexual thoughts, because you are sleeping. (Now, if you have lustful thoughts and sexual fantasies all day and then dream about it, I would maybe have to reconsider my views on if it is a sin or not)... but a mortal sin is something that needs to have full consent and full knowledge, nocturnal emissions does not meet either of those criteria.

I am pretty sure that its medically proven that nocternal emmissions do not relieve enough sperm to prevent prostate cancer. A nocternal emmission does not release nearly as much sperm as an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

Wait, who again says that masturbating prevents prostate cancer.

A quick search and the first 2 links that came up told me the opposite:

Masturbation May Increase Risk of Prostate Cancer | LiveScience
Masturbation and Prostate Cancer Risk

One study in 2003 showed that it might lower the risk. Another within the last couple of years showed it might actually increase the risk of prostate cancer. At best, it's inconclusive. Unless you have more evidence I'm not seeing?

 

[OGM]

Nocturnal emissions do not actively involve a sexual act or active sexual thoughts, because you are sleeping. (Now, if you have lustful thoughts and sexual fantasies all day and then dream about it, I would maybe have to reconsider my views on if it is a sin or not)... but a mortal sin is something that needs to have full consent and full knowledge, nocturnal emissions does not meet either of those criteria.

They often do involve sexually active thoughts about sexual acts. That is why they are often referred to as wet dreams. As as matter of fact you can actually wake up while this process is happening. Not good!