The Quiverfull movement

[clarksided]

I don't subscribe to it, but the idea itself doesn't really bother me.

As long the woman is down with going through childbirth that many times, I don't particularly care.

 

[mont974x4]

You should care. You'll be one of the ones paying for their education, health care, food, et al.

 

[Steezie]

I still dont see how that makes the number of children I choose to have any of your business. If the resources I use dont belong to you, then it is none of your business. If it is your business, how do you plan to stop me?

If you were someone who was part of this movement or simply doing what this movement does, then you abusing your kids and putting far more people than you can reasonably support as well as adding to the overpopulation problem for no justifiable reason makes it my business.

I love kids, I'd have 50 of them if I could afford it and could actually genuinely take care of all of them, but that's unrealistic.

Specifically men do not generally have the compassion, the patience, or the ability to multi-task that it takes to raise children and manage a home.

And yet thousands of single fathers do it every day.

 

[Gishin]

i've NEVER regretted being a mother...even when i was pregnant with my 3rd child, and accompanied by 2 little ones, ages 2 and 5 and we literally slept on the street, in the cold, on an October night...

God continues His lineage through the children He gifts us with.

Being a mother is one thing, being a baby factory is another.

 

[Gishin]

But who says they're being forced?



How so?

Their religion is reinforcing that idea. It's brainwashing.

 

[mont974x4]

If you were someone who was part of this movement or simply doing what this movement does, then you abusing your kids and putting far more people than you can reasonably support as well as adding to the overpopulation problem for no justifiable reason makes it my business.

I love kids, I'd have 50 of them if I could afford it and could actually genuinely take care of all of them, but that's unrealistic.


And yet thousands of single fathers do it every day.

You should have noted that I have used words like "generally". Due to health issues I have been the one running our house for a few years now. I still see my bride as being better equipped for it.


My point still stands, raising kids and managing a home is a noble thing and is more than a matter of biology and who has what body parts.

 

[Chazemataz]

Anyone who uses their womb as a political weapon deserves to have their children taken away.

This is what they're doing: they realize that the majority of kids are very liberal and are becoming more or less un-Churched. They don't share the same fire-and-brimstone theology as their parents. To counteract this, these people are popping out kids for the Republican Party which is falling out of favor with the young and educated, and homeschooling all 15+ of 'em. Indoctrination, in other words, to fight the "liberal agenda".
I'll never understand how people can honestly devote so much time into halting social progress, to the point of having children for that sole purpose, especially when that social progress very rarely effects them. They hate public schools and public clubs and sports and pretty much everything else that promotes meeting more people and therefore becoming more understanding of different cultures and lifestyles and beliefs. They're still allowed to hold any sort of opinion, and yet it bothers them when certain opinions they once had are exposed as being backwards and downright wrong. The best way to get back at THE MAN for proving your pastor wrong? Pop out 15 new kids and indoctrinate them. Tell them that everybody else is unsaved and evil and that the Liberals are out to get them. Don't let them meet other kids their age unless they were homeschooled too. No TV, no music, no reading, unless it's approved by the parents. Forget the fact that they'll never function quite right socially, and be suspicious and downright hateful of everybody else.

It's okay to have conservative viewpoints, but when they are proven wrong time and time again and you promote them ("Evil-ution is a lie, gays choose to be 'that way', America is a right-Christian theocracy, all Muslims want to blow people up"), you're just contributing to America's rapid ignorance and growing indifference.

 

[PassionFruit]

Yeah, and we all know that nothing could possibly be worse than to be a wife and mother.

<staff edit> I didn't say that there was anything wrong with being a wife and mother. I said my problem is when women feel that's all they're good for.

And far as getting the idea that women aren't encouraged to pursue higher education, if it's their belief that a woman's role is to have as many children as possible so they can create some kind of army for god, I don't see why they tell women they can pursue college.

Also I've been watching The Duggars recently and I never heard them encouraged their daughters to pursue higher education. Unless you would to provide some evidence that suggests that they don't do this.

 

[moonkitty]

Yeah, and we all know that nothing could possibly be worse than to be a wife and mother.

I don't think anyone is saying that being a wife and mother is a bad thing, or only being a wife and mother is a bad thing. What is bad is when you tell anyone who is female that all she should be is a wife and mother. That being a wife and mother is the only option she can have.

I'm not saying that all quiverfull families do this--but many of them do, my sister who has 4 kids sort of dabbled in the quiverful movement for a little while and many, many of the moms that she knew where were quiverful were very opposed to her going back to college, going back to work and putting her kids in the public education even though she is the pre-school teacher at the school they are in. Then the quiverful mom group pretty much disowned her when she needed to have a surgery that pretty much saved her life from cervical cancer, but made it almost impossilbe to have more kids. They truly felt she should risk cancer, and have more kids.

Even though my sister and I were not brought up to be quiverful, we were brought up in an religious enviroment were it was taught that women were not suspose to work outside the home and women who did where seen as sinnful and prideful since wanting anything other than being a wife and mother meant you were not living a godly life.

So while I see nothing bad at all with being a wife and mother--I'm a wife and mother as well, it is when you grow up being told that it is the ONLY thing you can or should do that is hurtful.

 

[Bro_Sam]

I don't think anyone is saying that being a wife and mother is a bad thing, or only being a wife and mother is a bad thing. What is bad is when you tell anyone who is female that all she should be is a wife and mother. That being a wife and mother is the only option she can have.

But nobody is saying that.

I'm not saying that all quiverfull families do this--but many of them do, my sister who has 4 kids sort of dabbled in the quiverful movement for a little while and many, many of the moms that she knew where were quiverful were very opposed to her going back to college, going back to work and putting her kids in the public education even though she is the pre-school teacher at the school they are in.

Well, first of all, I don't know the circumstances, so they may have had good reason to disagree with her.

Second, other mothers disagreeing is not the same thing as forcing her to do something.

Then the quiverful mom group pretty much disowned her when she needed to have a surgery that pretty much saved her life from cervical cancer, but made it almost impossilbe to have more kids. They truly felt she should risk cancer, and have more kids.

Yeah, this is the part where the story gets a little hard to believe.

 

[Bro_Sam]

if it's their belief that a woman's role is to have as many children as possible so they can create some kind of army for god

Straw man.

Also I've been watching The Duggars recently and I never heard them encouraged their daughters to pursue higher education.

Do you know how TV works? There are a lot of things that go on that you don't see. They film them for many hours and edit it down to thirty minutes.

But, besides, you've yet to show that not encouraging someone to pursue higher education is the same as forcing them not to pursue higher education.

 

[Bro_Sam]

Their religion is reinforcing that idea. It's brainwashing.

That's really interesting, since I've been in the same religion for twenty years and I've never heard anything like that. And I can tell you right now that my wife would never stand for anything like that.

 

[Bro_Sam]

Anyone who uses their womb as a political weapon deserves to have their children taken away.

This is what they're doing: they realize that the majority of kids are very liberal and are becoming more or less un-Churched. They don't share the same fire-and-brimstone theology as their parents. To counteract this, these people are popping out kids for the Republican Party which is falling out of favor with the young and educated, and homeschooling all 15+ of 'em. Indoctrination, in other words, to fight the "liberal agenda".

And how did you come to this conclusion?

They hate public schools

No, we don't hate public schools. We just don't think they're doing a very good job.

and public clubs

You mean like scouting and 4-H, which are very popular?

and sports

Yeah, right. Ever heard of a guy named Tim Tebow?

and pretty much everything else that promotes meeting more people and therefore becoming more understanding of different cultures and lifestyles and beliefs.

How ironic, since our children actually meet more people and a wider variety of people than they would meet were they stuck in a government school classroom all day.

Don't let them meet other kids their age unless they were homeschooled too.

Actually, most of our children's friends are not homeschooled.

No TV, no music, no reading, unless it's approved by the parents.

Oh no! You mean parents actually being parents??? What an awful world we must live in.

Forget the fact that they'll never function quite right socially, and be suspicious and downright hateful of everybody else.

If that's true, then why does my oldest daughter (17 years old) have a standing invitation to intern in Roscoe Bartlett's office? Why did a local artisan guild wave their by laws to allow my thirteen year old son to join, when the by laws normally require members to be over eighteen?

you're just contributing to America's rapid ignorance and growing indifference.

I find that very ironic, given the unfounded and, frankly, downright silly things you've said here.

 

[PassionFruit]

Straw man.



Do you know how TV works? There are a lot of things that go on that you don't see. They film them for many hours and edit it down to thirty minutes.

But, besides, you've yet to show that not encouraging someone to pursue higher education is the same as forcing them not to pursue higher education.

Do you even know where the meaning of the word "quiverfull" originated? I doubt you do.

In Quiverfull Movement, Birth Control Is Shunned : NPR
Raising God's Army: The Quiverfull movement's militant, and increasingly mainstream, approach to childbearing.
A person in the article actually said the womb is a powerful weapon.

I know that women aren't encouraged to go to college because I read about it.

Perhaps you should read this book:
Amazon.com: Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement (9780807010709): Kathryn Joyce: Books

So no, quiverfull movement doesn't seem just think that children are blessings, they think that having as many children as possible is good to fight the so-called "culture war."

 

[SmileAndAHandshake]

What are your opinions on this movement? Good? Bad?

Blind post.

Pregnancy = coincidence at worst, mortally purposeful at best (ie: trying to time everything right in order to get pregnant), but to me it is not "God's will" when someone gets knocked up.

Hence, quiverful is just a glorified race to see how many kids you can pop out in your lifetime with no real purpose other than that in my eyes (sorry).

I don't think it's good or bad. It's neutral, so long as you are supporting the children from your very own income and are not relying on state assistance to fund your little brood of minions. If you've got the dough, by all means, pop 'em out -- as long as they aren't affecting -me- in a negative way, what do I care?

 

[chingchang]

The Quiverfull movement, a movement which preaches having as many kids as "God" blesses you with (so no birth control) in order to have them live in his glory and spread Christianity through child bearing. The Duggars are members of the Quiverfull movement.

What are your opinions on this movement? Good? Bad?

Unthinking...absolutely ridiculous IMHO. Back in the day...I could see the real-world application of such a policy. However...we don't need more people to work the farm...hand-make shoes...fleece sheep...etc. That is "old-world". I'm not saying people should have X amount of children...I think you should have as many children as you want provided you have the time...energy and resources to "properly" care for them. Any Biblical argument they can put up for why they do what they do I can refute with the same Bible. The Quiverfull movement seems like a fascist cult from the outside....

CC

 

[clarksided]

You should care. You'll be one of the ones paying for their education, health care, food, et al.

Not really a big deal...I don't mind being taxed a little more to help the indigent.

 

[lawtonfogle]

The Quiverfull movement, a movement which preaches having as many kids as "God" blesses you with (so no birth control) in order to have them live in his glory and spread Christianity through child bearing. The Duggars are members of the Quiverfull movement.

What are your opinions on this movement? Good? Bad?

Do they have the right to do it? To the extent that they can continue to not neglect any individual child. Should they? Well, they are clearly backing on the idea of brainwashing (they are assuming their children will be the same religion, and I don't think they are going to be getting them to consider options), but even overlooking this, it would be better to adopt if you wanted an army to brainwash. At least then you are giving some child a home.

 

[caribassett]

Oh, I was looking to meet otherQF minded families, think I wandered into the wrong thread.

Wanted to mention as far as education, my daughter is planning on going to Pensacola...

 

[Gishin]

Don't do it! There's still time!