Are things other than sex (handjob, fingering) before marriage a Sin?

[owenlikesknowing]

Hi all,

I have a pretty weird topic that I have been considering here - I understand sex before marriage is wrong, but what about hand jobs, fingering, oral sex etc. I have heard there is an argument over whether those acts are forbidden till marriage.

If true - why?

(On a side note, if a couple waits till marriage night, is the sex and foreplay not awful?)

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

IMO, foreplay can be the beginning stage of sex. So, asking if it is OK to engage in that activity with the excuse that it is not full-blown sexual intercourse seems as silly as saying "I know God says it is wrong to commit murder.... but.... what if I just beat somebody up a little bit? I mean, they won't *die*..."

It just seems logical to me that if God doesn't approve of sexual intercourse before marriage and He doesn't even approve of lustfull thoughts (see Matthew 5:28 where Jesus says if a man even looks at a woman in lust then he has committed adultery in his heart), that God won't approve of those other things, either. I believe foreplay would be included in the "sexual immorality" that the Bible warns against over and over again throughout its books.

And who cares if there is an argument (amongst people) over whether or not it is acceptable? These are people arguing... and why do you think anyone wants to argue about things like this? To find loopholes. Does anyone honestly think if they went up to God and said, "Hey, God, would it be OK if I got a handjob from somebody today?" that God would like "Yeah that's totally cool with me! My bad, I should have been more specific about that in the Bible. Go right ahead" -- LOL, yeah right.

Note Colossians 3:1-6...

"Rules for Holy Living

Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived."

And 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8....

"Living to Please God

Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit."
​

As far as the marriage night goes, I would assume that depends on the couple. I'm sure it may be awkward for some and for others sex may not even be possible the first night or even the first days because of certain anotomical issues (ie. the hymen being too painful or something). Does it really matter in the long run if there is some awkwardness in the first night? If one were to engage in foreplay for the first time before marriage wouldn't it be awkward then, too? The first night of marriage is just one night of the rest of a couple's lives together, just like the wedding is just one day. Yeah, ideally, everything would be perfect -- but that's not realistic. And the big deal is the whole marriage, not just one day or night. The couple will have their entire lives to get used to having sex together.

 

[gzt]

I really think you ought not to be fiddling with each others' genitalia before you are married. Or erogenous zones. All of these things are unambiguously sexual behavior even if they aren't coitus, so they are quite trivially reserved for the marriage bed.

 

[Luther073082]

Hi all,

I have a pretty weird topic that I have been considering here - I understand sex before marriage is wrong, but what about hand jobs, fingering, oral sex etc. I have heard there is an argument over whether those acts are forbidden till marriage.

If true - why?

One of the things Jesus railed against in the NT was the religious leaders obcession with following the scripture to the letter but not to the spirit of the law.

If God is telling us that we should avoid fornication, then are we playing pharisee in that we are trying to find ways around something that is obviously the spirit of the law but perhaps not directly spelled out? The bible makes clear sexual contact is ment for marriage, because this is how God intended it when he created it. That can be seen in both the old and the new testament.

Also the bible forbids lust and these types of sexual contact would at the very least DIRECTLY disobey the commandments against lust for those you arn't married to.

The argument that you arn't suppose to have vaginal sex, but everything else is ok, to me is someone trying to find a loophole so they can go do things and feel as though they have not sinned. A person should know they are trying to do something wrong when they are looking for loopholes so they can do something.

(On a side note, if a couple waits till marriage night, is the sex and foreplay not awful?)

Perhaps, but oh well.

Whats it going to hurt if you don't have the best sex of your life on your wedding night, when you iare going to be spending the rest of your life with a person?

 

[Cjwinnit]

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires" - Song of Solomon 2:7.

 

[Monaleezza]

"(On a side note, if a couple waits till marriage night, is the sex and foreplay not awful?)"

Perhaps, but oh well.

Whats it going to hurt if you don't have the best sex of your life on your wedding night, when you iare going to be spending the rest of your life with a person?

NO!! It's not gonna be awful.
It's not gonna be mindblowing.
But it will be amazing!

Remember this is the person you've waited for.
You'll get to touch them in places you never have and in ways you never have.
If you enjoy that person in conversation how could the foreplay go wrong? If just looking at them feels good, how could having them touch you and getting to touch them feel wrong?
Just don't expect heaven to open and fireworks to fall down as you experience your 1st night together and everything will be a bonus because it will be more than before and now it will be blessed and sanctified.

 

[Luther073082]

NO!! It's not gonna be awful.
It's not gonna be mindblowing.
But it will be amazing!

Remember this is the person you've waited for.
You'll get to touch them in places you never have and in ways you never have.
If you enjoy that person in conversation how could the foreplay go wrong? If just looking at them feels good, how could having them touch you and getting to touch them feel wrong?
Just don't expect heaven to open and fireworks to fall down as you experience your 1st night together and everything will be a bonus because it will be more than before and now it will be blessed and sanctified.

I'm not going to say it won't be enjoyable. Because it probably will be.

But I don't like to overromantise sex. Sex can be a romantic thing, its a major thing in a married couple's romance. But going in and expecting an amazing experience, physical, romantic or otherwise I think you will be sorely disappointed.

The first time will probably be sloppy and probably not feel super romantic. That is ok, it is all a process of learning.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

If you have to tip-toe and redraw lines, then I think you know your answer. Whether you choose to play by that or not is your call.

 

[Drekkan85]

I really think you ought not to be fiddling with each others' genitalia before you are married. Or erogenous zones. All of these things are unambiguously sexual behavior even if they aren't coitus, so they are quite trivially reserved for the marriage bed.

It's worth noting that erogenous zone is a rather... expansive term. For either sex (though slightly more commonly with women) it can extend to the inner arms, the belly, the neck, the lips, and the feet.

 

[gzt]

You do have a point, that is slightly stronger than I intended. One does want to be careful when dealing with erogenous zones, but, well, that can include the lips. I wanted a word that included, for instance, female breasts, so genitalia isn't quite enough, but lips and feet probably shouldn't be in there unless they really turn you on, so erogenous zone is, perhaps, too strong. So, fine.

 

[JSGuitarist]

Start by asking the quesstion, what would ensure that this relationship stays honoring to God in whatever fashion it could? If you can answer that question, then you can answer your other question.

The other thought I keep in mind, let's suppose that you knew the two of you were going to break up and not marry each other, but instead to someone else; both of you then have to consider that those things you do, are one less thing you can uniquely share with your true spouse. For even these items, there's nothing to regret about waiting, and nothing but regret if you don't.

 

[Windmill]

Hi all,

I have a pretty weird topic that I have been considering here - I understand sex before marriage is wrong, but what about hand jobs, fingering, oral sex etc. I have heard there is an argument over whether those acts are forbidden till marriage.

If true - why?

(On a side note, if a couple waits till marriage night, is the sex and foreplay not awful?)

There are 2 major roads taken within common Christian thought concerning these things.

It depends on the reason one comes to the conclusion that pre-marital sex was forbidden. Generally, it is believed it was for one of the following 2 reasons;

1) Potential births outside of a marriage
2) Purity

If the issue is births outside of marriage, then we have that covered now. Plus stuff you included would also be fine under that guise. But thanks to birth control, those that believe such a thing generally wouldn't be held back now from sex since its no longer an issue.

So it leaves you pretty much with purity. Now, even though hand-jobs and oral sex isn't actually specifically forbidden, it really comes down to interpreting the spirit of the text. Oral sex for instance is even called oral sex. Its a sexual act as it involves our sexual organs. Its engaging not in direct sex but, again, a sexual act. So in that sense, a Christian concerned with purity would most likely feel convicted that such an act is sexually impure outside of marriage since it is inheriently sexual.

 

[Luther073082]

There are 2 major roads taken within common Christian thought concerning these things.

It depends on the reason one comes to the conclusion that pre-marital sex was forbidden. Generally, it is believed it was for one of the following 2 reasons;

1) Potential births outside of a marriage
2) Purity

If the issue is births outside of marriage, then we have that covered now. Plus stuff you included would also be fine under that guise. But thanks to birth control, those that believe such a thing generally wouldn't be held back now from sex since its no longer an issue.

I disagree, people make tons of mistakes all the time, forgetting pills or having condoms fail on them.

Remember that its 99.9% effective only when used properly. When not used properly its not worth a hill of beans.

Even the most diciplined person could make a mistake of this sort.

So in a different way I think its still a major issue.

So it leaves you pretty much with purity. Now, even though hand-jobs and oral sex isn't actually specifically forbidden, it really comes down to interpreting the spirit of the text. Oral sex for instance is even called oral sex. Its a sexual act as it involves our sexual organs. Its engaging not in direct sex but, again, a sexual act. So in that sense, a Christian concerned with purity would most likely feel convicted that such an act is sexually impure outside of marriage since it is inheriently sexual.

Well I don't like the term purity. Purity has turned into its own heresy these days where people worship at the altar of it. Being a complete virgin doesn't make someone more pure then a non-virgin, but you wouldn't know that the way many churchs teach about it.

My feeling is that between the physical intimacy created, the possibility of children, the potential health risks, etc etc that God specifically created sex to be only used as part of a marital relationship. With these other acts perhaps the possiblity of children goes away, but the potential health risks and the intimacy doesn't necessarily.

For me a big part of it is also that God, being God has the right to set an order to creation. Since he obviously intended sex only for marriage, then we honor God by trying to follow into the order in which God created the world instead of rebelling against it.

In that sense it does not matter WHY its a sin. Its his world.

 

[gzt]

Windmill: I think those two lines of thought aren't exhaustive, especially as "purity" brings to mind things like Old Testament taboos about menstrual blood, eating pork, etc. I realize that is not what purity, in this context actually means, but it can degenerate into this. A far better line of thought is to think about God's design for sex, marriage, and our bodies. That line of thought changes things from, "I can't have sex outside of marriage because I won't be pure," or, "I can't have sex outside of marriage because I can't have a baby outside of marriage," to, "God has so intertwined sex and marriage so that it does not make sense to enter this transcendent bond outside of holy matrimony and playing around with my sexual organs is truly unwise."

 

[gzt]

Luther: 99.9%? Very few contraceptive methods are at 99.9% besides sterilization. Implanon, I think that's the only one.

 

[Windmill]

I know its not exaughstive, but I do honestly see it as the two major ideas, with the latter being by far the most common.

I did not mean to imply that, biblically, one is less pure than another if they have had pre-marital sex nor did I mean to imply that sex is unpure. It isn't. But biblically, it becomes only pure, good and in fact commanded between couples when one wants it when one is in a marriage.

 

[Ave Maria]

Hi all,

I have a pretty weird topic that I have been considering here - I understand sex before marriage is wrong, but what about hand jobs, fingering, oral sex etc. I have heard there is an argument over whether those acts are forbidden till marriage.

If true - why?

(On a side note, if a couple waits till marriage night, is the sex and foreplay not awful?)

Why would you, as an Atheist, consider sex before marriage to be wrong? Personally, I see nothing wrong with either that or foreplay.

 

[BenevolentB]

Why would you, as an Atheist, consider sex before marriage to be wrong? Personally, I see nothing wrong with either that or foreplay.

I actually know quite a few people of other religions and those without (Atheists) who choose to wait for sex. The choice isn't ALWAYS religion based. Let's not pigeon hole people.

 

[yourstylist42]

for myself, i think it would be very difficult to draw the line. I get so arroused just by kissing someone that i know if it went on to oral or other stimulation, the temptation of having sex would be too great. Also, for me it was a specific promise i made to God on the night that I promised him celibacy until marriage that i would no more than kiss a man who was not my husband