Starbucks, Planned Parenthood and the Question of Boycotts

[Inklingchick]

I don't know if this counts as a "debates on abortion" question-- if so, moderators, feel free to bump me to there. I also asked this on a different subforum, but I'd like to get a second opinion, as it were, so... here's the question.

Okay. So a while back I had heard a rumor that Starbucks "supported planned parenthood." I dug into this and in fact Starbucks is on planned parenthood's list of corporate givers, but it is not on the main companies-that-support-planned-parenthood list (called Life List, maybe?) that one of the major prolife orgs put out. It turns out that why this is is that Starbucks has a policy where they match any employee's gift to any registered 501(c)(3) charity. Some employees gave to PP, so Sbux gave some $ to PP. They also gave money to, among others, WorldVision International, and I am sure to many many individual churches and probably some specifically prolife organizations too, because I'm sure there are barista's out there who have donated to these orgs.

So it's not like Sbux has this corporate policy to give to planned parenthood. Buut I still feel guilty about getting coffee there-- haven't for months, now, except twice. Is this necessary? Is it wrong to buy starbucks if I know that there is a possibility that some of my money will go to support planned parenthood (presumably if baristas in the past have given, then they will give in the future as well), even if some other part of my money will go to WorldVision? What is the logic of boycotts here? Am I being irrational, overly scrupulous? I know that logically if I don't buy from Sbux for this reason I shouldn't be buying from any company that has a matching gifts policy that mmight end up benefitting PP, which is most companies with such a policy.

But I still feel like it's wrong-- like "my latte money might support an abortion."

Ideas? Responses? Can I have Starbucks with a clear conscience?

Thanks, guys.

Inklingchick

 

[SearcherKris]

I'm not a fan of Starbucks, but I would not go against Planned Parenthood.

I am pro life, and I used to be a counselor at a Crisis Pregnancy Center. However I don't believe that taking away Planned Parenthood is a wise idea. Here is why:

They educate people about safe sexual practices and birthcontrol to prevent situations where women will feel compelled to get abortions. They screen for STD and help prevent the spread of it.

They help low income women with their physical welbeing. Women can get exams and tests to check up their health. Following the results of these, they can be followed up on for treatment if it is necessary.

Women who have had abortions need compassion and health care. Jesus was compassionate, and sometimes the best way to win people over is to take care of them and be kind. At the point of post-abortion care, the deed has already been done. There is no getting that chid back...but the mother can learn how to make better choices and if she is shown the love of Christ she can repent, be forgiven, and become an advocate for life. Christ is all about redemption and new fresh starts.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Abortion is a small part of PP's business. There is a lot of disinformation about PP being put out by the extreme right wing. To those who are inclined to believe such things I would inquire why you would not take words from people who stalk abortion doctors and clinic staffs and harass their families and vendors with a grain of salt.

I have no problem supporting Planned Parenthood even though I oppose abortion.

Most corporations are supportive of well-established programs like Planned Parenthood's anyhow especially under matching programs like this.

I've heard of radio preachers urging boycotts of certain cosmetics companies caliming beauty products are made from aborted fetii. They're lying through their teeth. Some use parts of human placenta which may be obtained from reproductive health clinics, just like the bloody fetus and stillbirth pictures antiabort groups use in their propaganda were.

 

[b.hopeful]

I tend to avoid corporate chains in general. We have some great local coffee houses...so I might get Starbucks out of convenience twice a year. IMO...frequenting local businesses is a good thing and a good reason to avoid chains.

But...if you like Starbucks...avoiding it because it matches the contribution seems like a silly reason. By that extension....avoid all businesses because the money the employee makes might go towards funding abortions....like if you tip the barista...perhaps she'll use that to get an abortion.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Planned Parenthood:

YouTube - Planned Parenthood - "Superhero for Choice" Cartoon

 

[NaLuvena]

Sometimes a latte is just a latte.....

I think you're going overboard with this. If I was in your situation, I'd judge Starbucks by the service they provide and the product they sell.

If not, then it's like not buying pizza from the neighbour pizza joint because the owner, uses my pizza money to buy "girlie" mags.

If God followed this principle, He would withhold life from us, because we use part (if not most) of it to sin.....

I think it's no reflection on what you believe to shop at Starbucks.

 

[kepha31]

I understand your dilemna about boycotting Starbucks. I have issues with shoe manufacturers that pay children $.25/hr. to slave in sweat shops 6 or 7 days a week, 12-14 hour shifts. And we pay $150. a pair. Should we stop wearing shoes? MacDonolds supports the politically correct gay agenda. Should I stop eating Big Mac's? Where does it end? What are we supposed to do? These are evil times we are in.

Searcherkris

They educate people about safe sexual practices and birthcontrol to prevent situations where women will feel compelled to get abortions. They screen for STD and help prevent the spread of it.

This is a very uneducated statement coming from a pro-lifer. The only "safe sex" that actualy works, and has proven itself to be 100% effective against the spread of STD's is chastity, not sexual license that PP promotes. And birth control has, without fail, increased the spread of STD's wherever it is introduced. There are no exceptions.

Contraceptives have proven, without exception, to increase abortions, not prevent them, in a behavioral and social context.

“The cemetery of the victims of human cruelty in our century is extended to include yet another vast cemetery, that of the unborn.” Pope John Paul II






REDEEMER IN THE WOMB

 

[SearcherKris]

How very insulting. Do you think it is possible to state you thoughts without being rude and confrontational? It makes me not want to even consider what you have to say, and your message gets lost in the arrogance and hateful tone.

However, for the sake of the original poster and others who are interested in this discussion I will address your comments.

First let me ask, have you ever personally been involved in Planned Parenthood and if not what is your source of information? Have you ever recieved services from Planned Parenthood?

Let me share my experience:

I was married to an adulterous man. He gave me an STD for YEARS before I knew he was doing it. My Christian dr. (who had been my dr. since I was a small child) said it was just a bacterial infection and not to worry about it...for years. At one time I asked if it was sexually transmitted, and I was told that it could be but didn't have to be. It was a lie.

After leaving him I was having health issues because of the STD's. My husband dropped me from the medical insurance just for spite even though we were still married and he "wanted to work it out." I only had a part time job, was taking care of our two kids, and had no medical insursance. My Christian Dr. wanted 85.00 just to pull my chart, check my weight, and blood pressure, and have his nurse ask me what I came in for. That 85.00 didn't cover any exam or test, which is way more expensive.

I had a friend suggest Planned Parenthood. After hearing about the "evils" of Planned Parenthood from my Crisis Pregnancy Center days, I thought she's lost her mind. She was persistant though. She kept telling me that I needed help now and that they would do it. I caved in and went because I got desperate.

They set me up an appointed, ran test, and did a full exam. They took a lot of time with me and were gentle, accepting, understanding, and non-judging the whole time. I was treated with respect and dignity.

They talked to me about that same disease I had gotten again and again. It is ONLY sexually transmitted. I could have known years earlier that my husband was infecting me and being reckless with my health through his indiscretions. They also talked to me about a new one he had given me and how to prevent spreading it. I now know what to do in order to protect any future husband I may have because of the discussion we had there and information literature they gave me to take home.

 

[2ndRateMind]

Whatever we may think about the advantages of chastity, and I speak as a happily celibate bachelor, people are going to have sex in as many different configurations as they can dream up, and then a few others, as well. I don't think it does any good whatsoever to condemn this tendency. It is deeply rooted in our biological make up.

Polite society may pretend not to notice, or persuade itself that sex should be rationed according to it's preferred methods, approved relationships, and respected statuses, but frankly, it's not a battle society can win. Moslem countries regularly stone to death 'adulterous' women, who are often merely rape victims, but both adultery and rape persist in those countries. The fact is, the biological urge towards sex is stronger, far stronger, than the social mores and conventions and taboos we surround it with.

The question is, how are we to deal with the victims of sex outside of marriage? By victims, I mean the unhappily pregnant, the STD infected, the emotional casualties, the physically abused, the sadly deceived? There is, surely, only one humane response to this question, and that is to consider each individual according to the pertaining circumstances, and respect the fact that it is they, and they alone, who are the captains of their fates, and that provided they have been given all the relevant facts, it is their moral duty, as well as right, to make their informed decisions.

And our duty, if we wish to live in a free and humane country, is to pick up the pieces, afterwards.

Best wishes, 2ndRateMind.

 

[pgp_protector]

If you're worried about some of your money going to Planned Parenthood, you better not spend Any of it.

As any you spend can go to the Salary of a worker, who might Donate your % to Planed Parenthood or somewhere else.

How far down the chain do you wish to worry ?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Planned Parenthood is an enemy of mankind, an agent of Satan. History will regard them as simply an extension of the caretakers of the Nazi death camps.

Hyperbole much?

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

And birth control has, without fail, increased the spread of STD's wherever it is introduced. There are no exceptions.

Contraceptives have proven, without exception, to increase abortions, not prevent them, in a behavioral and social context. Your statement, Searcherkris, is just more Planned Parenthood propaganda. A big fat lie.

Can you back up that claim with evidence from well researched, respected, peer reviewed medical sources?

 

[Thaeoles]

As far as boycotting goes, I would ask this question: "Why boycott a secular organization for acting like a secular organization?"
Since I have roots in the Southern Baptist Denomination, I've seen my share of boycotting companies of the world for being too 'worldly'. It is not only antithetical, but ludicrous to try to impose Christian virtues upon the pagan.

 

[fated]

I don't know if this counts as a "debates on abortion" question-- if so, moderators, feel free to bump me to there. I also asked this on a different subforum, but I'd like to get a second opinion, as it were, so... here's the question.

Okay. So a while back I had heard a rumor that Starbucks "supported planned parenthood." I dug into this and in fact Starbucks is on planned parenthood's list of corporate givers, but it is not on the main companies-that-support-planned-parenthood list (called Life List, maybe?) that one of the major prolife orgs put out. It turns out that why this is is that Starbucks has a policy where they match any employee's gift to any registered 501(c)(3) charity. Some employees gave to PP, so Sbux gave some $ to PP. They also gave money to, among others, WorldVision International, and I am sure to many many individual churches and probably some specifically prolife organizations too, because I'm sure there are barista's out there who have donated to these orgs.

So it's not like Sbux has this corporate policy to give to planned parenthood. Buut I still feel guilty about getting coffee there-- haven't for months, now, except twice. Is this necessary? Is it wrong to buy starbucks if I know that there is a possibility that some of my money will go to support planned parenthood (presumably if baristas in the past have given, then they will give in the future as well), even if some other part of my money will go to WorldVision? What is the logic of boycotts here? Am I being irrational, overly scrupulous? I know that logically if I don't buy from Sbux for this reason I shouldn't be buying from any company that has a matching gifts policy that mmight end up benefitting PP, which is most companies with such a policy.

But I still feel like it's wrong-- like "my latte money might support an abortion."

Ideas? Responses? Can I have Starbucks with a clear conscience?

Thanks, guys.

Inklingchick

Wow, it seems like that would be punishing them for getting trapped by the culture, in the same way that some people have insurance that covers abortions, effectively subsidizing abortions for other people with that insurance.

Buying starbucks might not be sin-free... but the sin is very remote... Starbucks does not even intentionally give, but rather mechanically gives by reason of legal support for the abortion company.

I'll probably have Starbucks tomorrow.

 

[fated]

As far as boycotting goes, I would ask this question: "Why boycott a secular organization for acting like a secular organization?"
Since I have roots in the Southern Baptist Denomination, I've seen my share of boycotting companies of the world for being too 'worldly'. It is not only antithetical, but ludicrous to try to impose Christian virtues upon the pagan.

That isn't true, contemporary philosophy and atheist all recognize the value of traditional virtues. The personal effect of prayer and meditation is also partially proven, and thus, they will probably soon practice this as an acceptable norm too... probably as an anti-religious thing, but we know all prayer is good...

 

[fated]

Can you back up that claim with evidence from well researched, respected, peer reviewed medical sources?

The Catholic Church insists this is the case, they have the hospitals and clinics, the confessors, etc, to, at least be respected. I would say assume that that is the case unless you have good evidence to the contrary.

 

[Thaeoles]

That isn't true, contemporary philosophy and atheist all recognize the value of traditional virtues. The personal effect of prayer and meditation is also partially proven, and thus, they will probably soon practice this as an acceptable norm too... probably as an anti-religious thing, but we know all prayer is good...

What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

My point was that it is imprudent to boycott an organization with no religious affiliation for a religious view that is only obligatory for the one who holds the view.

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

The Catholic Church insists this is the case, they have the hospitals and clinics, the confessors, etc, to, at least be respected. I would say assume that that is the case unless you have good evidence to the contrary.

The Catholic Church has a huge bias against condoms. Because of that extreme bias, I cannot trust what the Church says about them unless it is backed up by another source. Just because they have hospitals(and many of them are very good ones), that doesn't mean that the people setting the policy are medical people, and even if they are, their personal beliefs may cloud their medical judgement.

To be fair, things like medical journals can have biases to, but I still trust those studies more.

There is proof that condoms are effective in preventing the spread of at least some STDs and are very effective in preventing the spread of HIV, which is the greatest concern.
This paper from the CDC says that condoms are very effective against HIV at least.

For HIV
infection, unlike other STDs, a number of carefully conducted studies, employing more
rigorous methods and measures, have demonstrated that consistent condom use is a
highly effective means of preventing HIV transmission.
Another type of epidemiologic study involves examination of STD rates in populations
rather than individuals. Such studies have demonstrated that when condom use
increases within population groups, rates of STDs decline in these groups. Other studies
have examined the relationship between condom use and the complications of sexually
transmitted infections. For example, condom use has been associated with a decreased
risk of cervical cancer – an HPV associated disease.
​

​

http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/od/condoms.pdf

From the Journal of the American Medical Association

Only 7% of the women reported ever trying condoms before the intervention,
but 22% reported condom use with good compliance 1 year later.
Women who were HIV-positive were more likely to adopt condom use than HIV
negative women (36% vs 16%; P<.05). Independent predictors of condom use,
both in HIV-positive and in HIV-negative women, included HIV testing and counseling
of the male partner, having a nonmonogamous relationship, and believing
condoms were not dangerous. Human immunodeficiency virus seroconversion
rates decreased significantly (from 4.1 to 1.8 per 100 person-years; P<.04) in
women whose partners were tested and counseled. The prevalence of gonorrhea
decreased substantially (13% to 6%; P<.05) among HIV-positive women, with the
greatest reduction among condom users (16% to 4%; P<.05).

Confidential HIV Testing and Condom Promotion in Africa: Impact on HIV and Gonorrhea Rates -- Allen et al. 268 (23): 3338 -- JAMA

​

 

[liss34]

I don't care what anyone say's giving money to pp is wrong even if abortion is just a small part of what they do its ..... so bad what they do its wrong there kiling baby's and some people are saying it wouldnt be good to get rid of pp. i have seen pictures of what the baby's look like after it made me cry. And some people say they do good right well did u know there tell kids its ok to have sex as long as u are protection just so they can get more money . Why would u tell kids that? i am only 14 i can see this is wrong what they do. I know a lot about abortion more then i wish i did. I can not tell u what to do what i can tell u is to pray about it talk to God he will help. You say u fill guilty about buying there well that's your sine. i have never been to sarbucks so i cant say there coffee isn't good but is cant be so good to where u cant live with out it........ Hope i help

God Bless

 

[liss34]

I don't care what anyone say's giving money to pp is wrong even if abortion is just a small part of what they do its ..... so bad what they do its wrong there killing baby's and some people are saying it wouldn't be good to get rid of pp. i have seen pictures of what the baby's look like after it made me cry. And some people say they do good right well did u know there tell kids its ok to have sex as long as u are protection just so they can get more money . Why would u tell kids that? i am only 14 i can see this is wrong what they do. I know a lot about abortion more then i wish i did. I can not tell u what to do what i can tell u is to pray about it talk to God he will help. You say u fill guilty about buying there well that's your sine. i have never been to sarbucks so i cant say there coffee isn't good but is cant be so good to where u cant live with out it........ Hope i help God Bless