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Why does God Resurect the Wicked?

reddogs

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After the millennium, why will the wicked be raised up, why arent they destroyed for infinity at the second coming?


  1. Revelation 20:5
    But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
  2. Revelation 20:6
    Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

reddogs

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Reddogs, you need to stop frequenting Heavenly Sanctuary.com. Marco and his compadres seem to be messing with your mind somewhat. :)

I think I roamed around to about 10 forums......too many questions, too many viewpoints, who is right/wrong?.........need a vacation to clear my mind......where can I go where there are no computers connected to the internet........CUBA!! Donkey carts and beaches, no wireless allowed....Tropical paradise....!;)
 
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NightEternal

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When I was in Africa, I actually managed to find an internet cafe in the small town I was visiting. No lie, it was this big straw hut with four, old, outdated, battered computers!

It took about half an hour to log on alone, but they worked! ^_^ My e-mail to my wife (then girlfriend) took forever. It was painful to hit send and wait while the stupid thing rattled and hummed for about twenty minutes before it finally said 'message sent'.

The owner and monitor of the cafe was this huge tribesman holding a machete. :eek: I kid you not. It's safe to say there was no porn surfing going on in that place!

Unreal.
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Reddogs, you need to stop frequenting Heavenly Sanctuary.com. Marco and his compadres seem to be messing with your mind somewhat. :)
Actually I started a thread I think on HeavenlySancturary.com that was asking the same question. As it is unnecessary for them to be raised to be punished no need to raise them so that they can cease to exist either. In fact even the only legitimate reason I have found does not serve much real purpose. That reason is that they are raised so that their questions about God and life and everything (as Douglas Adams might say) are answered. Since it is no problem for God to raise them once again to life and once they have been given the answer for that temporary life to cease it need not cause them any pain.

but that has always left the problem that why does it matter, once they cease to have life it matters not that their questions were answered or not. So I am left will only the idea that it is part of the character and love of God, but for many Adventists who see God as the one who destroys the wicked and some even taking longer then others to die, they don't even have that character of love to explain their views. So in many ways we see so poorly the future that it is often best not to pretend we understand what is going to happen, I don't think that Revelation as it was written was ever meant to lay out the future, certainly not the way so many have taken it. In general terms, the victory certainly, but not all the specifics we try to incorporate in to the symbolic language.
 
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reddogs

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When I was in Africa, I actually managed to find an internet cafe in the small town I was visiting. No lie, it was this big straw hut with four, old, outdated, battered computers!

It took about half an hour to log on alone, but they worked! ^_^ My e-mail to my wife (then girlfriend) took forever. It was painful to hit send and wait while the stupid thing rattled and hummed for about twenty minutes before it finally said 'message sent'.

The owner and monitor of the cafe was this huge tribesman holding a machete. :eek: I kid you not. It's safe to say there was no porn surfing going on in that place!

Unreal.

Wow, I bet you he had the shiny new Dell servers in the back........:cool:
Let the tourist use the old banged up PC JR's........ :o
 
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reddogs

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IMHO.....

After spending 1,000 years with Christ and seeing the books, I know there won't be any doubt in a righteous person's mind that our God is fair and just.

The 1,000 years of death for the wicked will feel like a split second to them.

I wanted to post more but I have a dr's appt and have to go! I'll post later.

But why wait a 1000 years, I think we could go through all the people we know that didnt make it in a much shorter time than that, I dont think I know more than a handful that took a fork in the road and are on the road with Castro to the infierno....
 
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Telaquapacky

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Are we asking does the Bible say the wicked will be resurrected, or are we asking whether or not we think it's a good idea?^_^

Like the second resurrection will show the wicked how wrong they were and they'll say, "Oh, I see! Okay, go ahead and throw me into the lake of fire- I deserve it, praise God!"

I could see myself after a thousand years of reading about the rebellion of a certain lost person I knew in life, and after it all, still thinking to myself, "But this person wasn't really any worse than I was. Why aren't they saved?" That could hinder my sense of peace in eternity. But if I looked down from the jeweled walls and saw that person coming with the mob, following Satan, with a face seething with hatred, coming to attack us, that might ease my mind about their final end. It might take a scene like that to convince me.
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Like the second resurrection will show the wicked how wrong they were and they'll say, "Oh, I see! Okay, go ahead and throw me into the lake of fire- I deserve it, praise God!"

I could see myself after a thousand years of reading about the rebellion of a certain lost person I knew in life, and after it all, still thinking to myself, "But this person wasn't really any worse than I was. Why aren't they saved?" That could hinder my sense of peace in eternity. But if I looked down from the jeweled walls and saw that person coming with the mob, following Satan, with a face seething with hatred, coming to attack us, that might ease my mind about their final end. It might take a scene like that to convince me.

So you mean even after a 1000 years with God you would not really trust God's actions and still want some more demonstrations. If faith in God is really the determining factor why would I be wondering if that guy was really any worse then I was.

I won't even go into the absurdity of believing that we will spend that 1000 years going over the books of other peoples lives.
 
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Telaquapacky

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So you mean even after a 1000 years with God you would not really trust God's actions and still want some more demonstrations. If faith in God is really the determining factor why would I be wondering if that guy was really any worse then I was.

I won't even go into the absurdity of believing that we will spend that 1000 years going over the books of other peoples lives.
Trust is only my job. God has a part to play too. His part is being open and revealing- which he has spent the past 6,000 years doing for His people. Wanting more demonstrations may not be too much to ask for so irrevocable and eternally permanent a job as destroying the wicked.

Do you really know how you will feel about the destruction of the wicked? I have found that I am not a very good predictor of how I will feel under more potentially familiar situations than that.

And I'm with you, I don't think I would spend much time poring over the records of others. All the more reason why a final, definitive demonstration would be reassuring.

We're talking about the permanent destruction of people. I think this is something the Christian world (sometimes SDA's too) tends to take uncharacteristically lightly for people who claim to have love and compassion for others.
 
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djconklin

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Why does God Resurect the Wicked?


After the millennium, why will the wicked be raised up, why arent they destroyed for infinity at the second coming?

Excellant question, no matter where you got it from!

Who was it that said the unexamined life is not worth living? Some would disapprove tho'.
 
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djconklin

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I won't even go into the absurdity of believing that we will spend that 1000 years going over the books of other peoples lives.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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1 Corinthians 6:2-3 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Yes, if a person does not look too hard at the subject that there are a few verses that people have taken to make them think that they actually judge people in the millennial kingdom. The Adventist version is that we we are checking to see why certain people are not there.

We actually judge the world all the time and in fact we have to judge angels (messengers) also. As in do not trust every spirit but test them. So is Paul exaggerating to make a point? Possibly or he may be referencing one of the eschatological beliefs of the Jews at that time. Whichever way he acknowledges that it is less important then making good judgments in this life.

Still the more likely explanation is that these are the ways the people at that time thought about life in heaven where they were to rule and reign with Christ. And that to them was acting as the authority of judges but in a world of followers of Christ who really needs rulers, as there the first shall be last and the last shall be first. Yet the expression of reigning is used to express just how much better their reward is then the sacrifices in this life:
Matthew 19:28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. MT 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother* or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. MT 19:30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.
 
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Dedication

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Yes, if a person does not look too hard at the subject that there are a few verses that people have taken to make them think that they actually judge people in the millennial kingdom. The Adventist version is that we we are checking to see why certain people are not there.

We actually judge the world all the time and in fact we have to judge angels (messengers) also. As in do not trust every spirit but test them. So is Paul exaggerating to make a point? Possibly or he may be referencing one of the eschatological beliefs of the Jews at that time. Whichever way he acknowledges that it is less important then making good judgments in this life.

Still the more likely explanation is that these are the ways the people at that time thought about life in heaven where they were to rule and reign with Christ. And that to them was acting as the authority of judges but in a world of followers of Christ who really needs rulers, as there the first shall be last and the last shall be first. Yet the expression of reigning is used to express just how much better their reward is then the sacrifices in this life:

Yes, you are right, Adventists do believe the redeemed will "judge" -- God giving a thousands years to show them the mysteries of His redeeming love, in contrast to the deceptions of sin.
And if you look at that verse in 1 Cor. 6:3 closely you will see that Paul is contrasting the saints future judging with the need to judge certain things pretaining to THIS LIFE. He's referring to a judging outside of THIS LIFE and comparing it to the need to judge certain things in THIS LIFE.

Why this "judgment" in the future? People today have questions, BIG questions, why, why why??? If God is love WHY? These questions pour forth from even committed Christians of every faith.

Surely God didn't allow this sin situation with all it's misery to continue for no good reason.

One must understand that sin hurled a challenge against God. A challenge that says, it's a better and more fun and exciting life to live in sin rather than abide in the ways of the Lord. A challenge that says God's ways are boring and burdensome, while sin makes life challenging and exciting.

Sadly millions are buying into that illusion and still hurling that challenge against God. God is patiently trying to teach all who have an heart to learn, not only of His redeeming love, but also that sin is destructive, cruel and leaves one empty.
Most of us really don't have any real understanding of the terribleness of sin -- especially when it comes to the more "acceptable sins".

Mankind was not created as a robot, but as a rational being, and God deals with His created creatures as rational being who sadly are very slow learners.

When the redeemed meet in heaven there will be some shocking things -- People will be there who we thought shouldn't be there. Let's say, a woman is in heaven and there she sees a man who abused her as a child. This same woman then looks around for a kind friend who helped her so much while she was child, but that friend is no where to be found in heaven. Questions questions questions, the rational mind is NOT turned off once we get to heaven.

But Christ says, "come, I'll show you what happened". And he does....
But like one poster already shared, it may be hard to believe that this friend's seemingly mild sins, (compared to the sins of the forgiven and redeemed abuser) weren't really that bad, why wasn't he also forgiven?


So we have the resurrection of the wicked after the thousand years. Some believe this time period is not just a day or two, but that these people are alive again for quite a few years....
Long enough for Satan to go forth and deceive them into thinking the kingdom is really his and get them to plan and prepare for a war of all wars.

What will these "wicked" do? And I believe this is the crucial question. Rev. 22. 14-15 show the redeemed inside the city and the lost outside. What will the wicked do? It sounds like they keep right on sinning.

In this final drama they show exactly what they want to do. Nowhere in these verses do we see them repenting instead they form a vaste army, like the sands of the sea and match against God's Holy City, they would tear Christ Himself from the throne and capture the city as in the bloody conquests of the history of this world. Yes, they want the city, but they also want their sins. But after being arrested before the Great White throne and shown how they despised God's mercy, the fires consume them and all trace of sin.

The universe (not just the redeemed) but all will know that every single person who could be redeemed was redeemed. The rebellious characters of the rest had been allowed to fully reveal themselves beyond all shadow of any lingering doubts.
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Why this "judgment" in the future? People today have questions, BIG questions, why, why why??? If God is love WHY? These questions pour forth from even committed Christians of every faith.

That is the biggest problem of the Adventist judgment scenario, it assumes our feeling today are the same feeling we would have after being changed in the twinkling of an eye. It assumes that now seeing through a glass darkly will be the same as seeing eye to eye. It assumes our lack of trust now will be our lack of trust then in a heavenly kingdom. The reason the rest of the Christian church still holds to this idea of a millennial judgment is because their belief is that the wicked will go into eternal torment in hell. So it is more reasonable to see this as something the righteous judge and declare yes you deserve to burn in hell forever.

I don't see anyone in heaven who lived on earth still asking the question why did x not get saved. Because it is by grace you are saved through faith and they will have the complete knowledge that God's grace saves and that can only leave one answer as to why someone is not there. Faith and looking at their lives and actions will never reveal their faith as it is a matter of the heart. And of course all of this already assumes a trustworthiness of God that He reveals to you the accurate history of someone which means that the person trusts God to reveal the history. So in practicality none of this even comes close to being a judgment either of people who are already lost because they were not subject to the first resurrection or of God who the people plainly must be trusting to either be in heaven or to believe that the history of others is even accurate.
 
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StormyOne

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That is the biggest problem of the Adventist judgment scenario, it assumes our feeling today are the same feeling we would have after being changed in the twinkling of an eye. It assumes that now seeing through a glass darkly will be the same as seeing eye to eye. It assumes our lack of trust now will be our lack of trust then in a heavenly kingdom. The reason the rest of the Christian church still holds to this idea of a millennial judgment is because their belief is that the wicked will go into eternal torment in hell. So it is more reasonable to see this as something the righteous judge and declare yes you deserve to burn in hell forever.

I don't see anyone in heaven who lived on earth still asking the question why did x not get saved. Because it is by grace you are saved through faith and they will have the complete knowledge that God's grace saves and that can only leave one answer as to why someone is not there. Faith and looking at their lives and actions will never reveal their faith as it is a matter of the heart. And of course all of this already assumes a trustworthiness of God that He reveals to you the accurate history of someone which means that the person trusts God to reveal the history. So in practicality none of this even comes close to being a judgment either of people who are already lost because they were not subject to the first resurrection or of God who the people plainly must be trusting to either be in heaven or to believe that the history of others is even accurate.
true.... your comment raised another thought... if the righteous saved believed that God is just, then why would they need to review the records for 1000 years? Reviewing suggests a lack of trust that the right thing was done. Additionally if you go down that road, it spawns other questions, like, how do we actually know that the records we are reviewing are what really happened? How do we know that the records haven't been tampered with or altered? If we trust that the records are accurate, then why can't we trust that God has done the right thing?
 
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Dedication

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Trust we must -- trust and faith in God, I fully agree with emphases on trust. Yet, trust doesn't remove all doubts. Trust believes in spite of doubts.

God will remove all doubts, the redeemed will not only trust THEY WILL KNOW.

As to your question of doubt as to "are the records accurate"? Yes, even that doubt would be forever removed when the wicked are ressurrected for their characters will be allowed to fully reveal themselves in the final drama.

One thing more, I don't believe that when the redeemed are changed in a twinkling of an eye, that their characters and focus in life are changed, they are still the same person they were. Those who refuse to have their characters transformed and become "new creatures in Christ" by God's grace in this life can not expect to have their characters transformed in that "twinkling of an eye" at the resurrection. Yes, the human corruptable flesh will put on incorruptable glorious bodies, we won't have these ailing earthly bodies any more, we will have glorious incorruptable ones as Cor. 15 says. But the rational mind will still be very much part of the eternal existance -- God does not turn people into robots.
 
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djconklin

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Yes, if a person does not look too hard at the subject that there are a few verses that people have taken to make them think that they actually judge people in the millennial kingdom.

Yada, yada propaganda. The reason you didn't produce any texts to the contrary is because you don't have any--because they don't exist.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

We actually judge the world all the time and in fact we have to judge angels (messengers) also. As in do not trust every spirit but test them. So is Paul exaggerating to make a point?

The word for judge is future tense--not present--are you implying that Paul couldn't tell the difference? I have no evidence that Paul was exaggerating.

Possibly or he may be referencing one of the eschatological beliefs of the Jews at that time.

This is called speculation. No facts are presented to make it a viable option.

Whichever way he acknowledges that it is less important then making good judgments in this life.

It is not that the future judging will be "less important." Rather, his point is that because we WILL be doing that we should therefore make better judgments here and now.

Still the more likely explanation is that these are the ways the people at that time thought about life in heaven where they were to rule and reign with Christ.

Yet another explanation? Can't make up your moind what it is saying?

"at that time"? As compared to now when we supposedly know so much better? Is that really the way God works--He who never changes? Are we really to believe that God inspired Paul to write what would be an antiquated idea and pass it off as being from God? What kind of Goid is that that plays games with out head? What God of God would tell you that He gave this book for your instruction--but, by the way, ignore anything you don't like--conjecture at will what the truth is--I don't treally mean any of this--everyone is okay and nothing will hit the fan? At this rate we might as well just chuck the whole book. There is no God.
 
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