What was wrong with Adam and Eve knowing good and evil?

[tonychanyt]

According to God, Genesis 2:

17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

This was not just knowledge but knowledge of good and evil, i.e., knowledge of morality. Before the fall, everything was good according to their conscience provided by God alone.

What was wrong with Adam and Eve knowing good and evil?

God did not want man to have this ability to decide on his own independently what was good and evil apart from God's standard. But the serpent had other ideas. It tempted Eve in Genesis 3:

5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Right, they would be like God, having this ability to decide morality. Only God was supposed to decide what was good and evil. Men are not supposed to decide on morality.

The Hebrew word for "knowing" was H3045. It was a common word that appeared 942 times.

Brown-Driver-Briggs:

know by experience

Adam and Eve would experience good and evil if they ate.

According to Eve:

6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food

There was an internal conflict: On the one hand, it looked good to eat. On the other hand, according to God, it was not good for her to eat that. But it looked delicious. Eve wanted to decide what was good or not by her own thinking process.

and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise,

for obtaining wisdom,
Strong's 7919: To be, circumspect, intelligent

Eve wanted to be wise to do her own thinking and make her own decisions. By eating, Adam and Eve would acquire their own abilities to decide what was good or bad, apart from God. And it happened right away:

she took of its fruit and ate,

Eve was deceived.

and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

Adam fell with her.

7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

At this point, they thought that it was bad to be naked, which they didn't think about before they ate. God didn't think that either. Their consciences were now independent of God due to their 1st disobedience.

But have no fear; God will make the reconnection by the Paraclete. The Paraclete is our spirit's legal counselor. He makes the judgment calls, advises us on good and bad, and guides us to walk in the Spirit.

 

[CoreyD]

According to God, Genesis 2:


This is not just knowledge but knowledge of good and evil, i.e., knowledge of morality. Before the fall, everything was good according to their conscience provided by God alone.

What was wrong with Adam and Eve knowing good and evil?

God did not want man to have this ability to decide on his own independently what was good and evil apart from God's standard. But the serpent had other ideas. It tempted Eve in Genesis 3:


Right, they would be like God, having this ability to decide morality. Only God was supposed to decide what was good and evil. Their standard is not the same as God's.

The Hebrew word for "knowing" is H3045. It is a common word that appears 942 times.

Brown-Driver-Briggs:


Adam and Eve would experience good and evil if they ate.

According to Eve:


There was an internal conflict: On the one hand, it looked good to eat. On the other hand, according to God, it was not good for her to eat that. But it looked delicious. Eve wanted to decide what was good or not by her own thinking process.


for obtaining wisdom,
Strong's 7919: To be, circumspect, intelligent

Eve wanted to be wise to do her own thinking and make her own decisions. By eating, Adam and Eve would acquire their own abilities to decide what is good or bad, apart from God. And it happened right away:


They could not overcome the temptation. Sure enough:


At this point, they thought that it was bad to be naked, which they didn't think about before they ate. God didn't think that either. Their consciences are now independent of God due to their 1st disobedience.

But have no fear; God will make the reconnection by the Paraclete. The Paraclete is our spirit's legal counselor. He makes the judgment calls, advises us on good and bad, and guides us to walk in the Spirit.

I was going to agree, except for one thing.
Perhaps, it's that I don't understand what you mean.
Could you please clarify what you mean by, "They could not overcome the temptation. Sure enough:"?
Thanks.

 

[tonychanyt]

Could you please clarify what you mean by, "They could not overcome the temptation. Sure enough:"?

Good point. I will modify

 

[CoreyD]

According to God, Genesis 2:


This was not just knowledge but knowledge of good and evil, i.e., knowledge of morality. Before the fall, everything was good according to their conscience provided by God alone.

What was wrong with Adam and Eve knowing good and evil?

God did not want man to have this ability to decide on his own independently what was good and evil apart from God's standard. But the serpent had other ideas. It tempted Eve in Genesis 3:


Right, they would be like God, having this ability to decide morality. Only God was supposed to decide what was good and evil. Men are not supposed to decide on morality.

The Hebrew word for "knowing" was H3045. It was a common word that appeared 942 times.

Brown-Driver-Briggs:


Adam and Eve would experience good and evil if they ate.

According to Eve:


There was an internal conflict: On the one hand, it looked good to eat. On the other hand, according to God, it was not good for her to eat that. But it looked delicious. Eve wanted to decide what was good or not by her own thinking process.


for obtaining wisdom,
Strong's 7919: To be, circumspect, intelligent

Eve wanted to be wise to do her own thinking and make her own decisions. By eating, Adam and Eve would acquire their own abilities to decide what was good or bad, apart from God. And it happened right away:

They did not overcome the temptation.

I hope you don't mind picky.
Since Eve, as you correctly said, "wanted to be wise to do her own thinking and make her own decisions", as well as Adam... they deliberately, gave in.
To say they did not overcome, to my mind, makes it appear as though they were struggling to win out.

However, the Bible says, "Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived..." 1 Timothy 2:14
The thought of being independent, and making their own decisions, and setting their own standards - being their own God, was appealing. They wanted that.

Eve was deceived into thinking that this willy serpent was offering her the best life ever.
How wrong she was.

Don't mind my picking at your words though. Excellent research.

At this point, they thought that it was bad to be naked, which they didn't think about before they ate. God didn't think that either. Their consciences were now independent of God due to their 1st disobedience.

But have no fear; God will make the reconnection by the Paraclete. The Paraclete is our spirit's legal counselor. He makes the judgment calls, advises us on good and bad, and guides us to walk in the Spirit.

I like how the Bible describes disconnecting oneself from the "Paraclete" - basically, form God.
Their "consciences have been seared as with a hot iron" 1 Timothy 4:2
Adam's and Eve's consciences became seared with thier own "wisdom", and no doubt Satan's spirit began to be at work in them.

Similar to what Judas experienced. Satan entered Judas, the one called Iscariot, who belonged to the number of the twelve. Luke 22:3

Yes, when the holy spirit makes one complete, it is an eternal guide.
One would become like Jesus.
Imagine what it would be like to be full of wisdom, far surpassing Solomon's!

 

[tonychanyt]

To say they did not overcome, to my mind, makes it appear as though they were struggling to win out.

Good point again. I will make further modification

 

[Mark Quayle]

According to God, Genesis 2:


This was not just knowledge but knowledge of good and evil, i.e., knowledge of morality. Before the fall, everything was good according to their conscience provided by God alone.

What was wrong with Adam and Eve knowing good and evil?

God did not want man to have this ability to decide on his own independently what was good and evil apart from God's standard. But the serpent had other ideas. It tempted Eve in Genesis 3:


Right, they would be like God, having this ability to decide morality. Only God was supposed to decide what was good and evil. Men are not supposed to decide on morality.

The Hebrew word for "knowing" was H3045. It was a common word that appeared 942 times.

Brown-Driver-Briggs:


Adam and Eve would experience good and evil if they ate.

According to Eve:


There was an internal conflict: On the one hand, it looked good to eat. On the other hand, according to God, it was not good for her to eat that. But it looked delicious. Eve wanted to decide what was good or not by her own thinking process.


for obtaining wisdom,
Strong's 7919: To be, circumspect, intelligent

Eve wanted to be wise to do her own thinking and make her own decisions. By eating, Adam and Eve would acquire their own abilities to decide what was good or bad, apart from God. And it happened right away:


Eve was deceived.


Adam fell with her.


At this point, they thought that it was bad to be naked, which they didn't think about before they ate. God didn't think that either. Their consciences were now independent of God due to their 1st disobedience.

But have no fear; God will make the reconnection by the Paraclete. The Paraclete is our spirit's legal counselor. He makes the judgment calls, advises us on good and bad, and guides us to walk in the Spirit.

Within this discussion is a good starting point, or, at least, a good adjoining point, for a proper treatment on the meaning of sin.

Here we see Adam and Eve wanting-to-know-for-themselves (which is a quality endemic to humanity, and not of itself sinful), kind of like how kids want to learn about whatever they are curious about, and want to grow up.

But where does this propensity for self-determination become rebellion against God?

 

[tonychanyt]

But where does this propensity for self-determination become rebellion against God?

When we say to God, "We don't want you to tell us what we should do."

 

[fhansen]

According to God, Genesis 2:


This was not just knowledge but knowledge of good and evil, i.e., knowledge of morality. Before the fall, everything was good according to their conscience provided by God alone.

What was wrong with Adam and Eve knowing good and evil?

God did not want man to have this ability to decide on his own independently what was good and evil apart from God's standard. But the serpent had other ideas. It tempted Eve in Genesis 3:


Right, they would be like God, having this ability to decide morality. Only God was supposed to decide what was good and evil. Men are not supposed to decide on morality.

The Hebrew word for "knowing" was H3045. It was a common word that appeared 942 times.

Brown-Driver-Briggs:


Adam and Eve would experience good and evil if they ate.

According to Eve:


There was an internal conflict: On the one hand, it looked good to eat. On the other hand, according to God, it was not good for her to eat that. But it looked delicious. Eve wanted to decide what was good or not by her own thinking process.


for obtaining wisdom,
Strong's 7919: To be, circumspect, intelligent

Eve wanted to be wise to do her own thinking and make her own decisions. By eating, Adam and Eve would acquire their own abilities to decide what was good or bad, apart from God. And it happened right away:


Eve was deceived.


Adam fell with her.


At this point, they thought that it was bad to be naked, which they didn't think about before they ate. God didn't think that either. Their consciences were now independent of God due to their 1st disobedience.

But have no fear; God will make the reconnection by the Paraclete. The Paraclete is our spirit's legal counselor. He makes the judgment calls, advises us on good and bad, and guides us to walk in the Spirit.

The only thing good about evil is that, by coming to know it, we might learn to hate and shun it and finally turn-or turn back- to God when He calls us. That is the ultimate choice for good over evil. And that's the only reason that He'd allow evil to have its day, for a season, until He no longer allows it to coexist with good.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The only thing good about evil is that, by coming to know it, we might learn to hate and shun it and finally turn-or turn back- to God when He calls us. That is the ultimate choice for good over evil. And that's the only reason that He'd allow evil to have its day, for a season, until He no longer allows it to coexist with good.

You don't consider it good that he used it to produce the need for redemption and for us to know his character all the better? Consider that if he had not used evil we would not become the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, nor the Dwelling Place of God. We would not become that particular thing for which he made us.

 

[fhansen]

You don't consider it good that he used it to produce the need for redemption and for us to know his character all the better? Consider that if he had not used evil we would not become the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, nor the Dwelling Place of God. We would not become that particular thing for which he made us.

To choose God is to be redeemed. That's why Jesus came, so that we may know a God truly worth choosing, a God who's opposed to evil by His nature.

 

[Mark Quayle]

To choose God is to be redeemed. That's why Jesus came, so that we may know a God truly worth choosing, a God who's opposed to evil by His nature.

Non-responsive. You proposed that evil was not necessary for anything except for us to hate it and shun it.

 

[fhansen]

Non-responsive. You proposed that evil was not necessary for anything except for us to hate it and shun it.

Non-responsive... . I said this: "The only thing good about evil is that, by coming to know it, we might learn to hate and shun it and finally turn-or turn back- to God when He calls us."

 

[Mark Quayle]

Non-responsive... . I said this: "The only thing good about evil is that, by coming to know it, we might learn to hate and shun it and finally turn-or turn back- to God when He calls us."

That implies nothing about that with which you responded to me.

 

[fhansen]

That implies nothing about that with which you responded to me.

Um...no.
Post #8: We choose God as we come to hate evil and He calls us.
Post #9: You objected to that as being something other than redemption as far as I could tell
Post #10: To choose God is redemption.

So there's a connection between it all. God uses the evil that He opposes but allows so that we may come to hate it, to hate a godless world where man's will reigns instead and evil results- and so to choose Him. Everything Jesus did was directed towards that aim.

There's a sound reason why evil is allowed, for a time, IOW. But maybe I'm just not understanding your point-and maybe you can explain it better to me.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Um...no.
Post #8: We choose God as we come to hate evil and He calls us.
Post #9: You objected to that as being something other than redemption as far as I could tell
Post #10: To choose God is redemption.

So there's a connection between it all. God uses the evil that He opposes but allows so that we may come to hate it, to hate a godless world where man's will reigns instead and evil results- and so to choose Him. Everything Jesus did was directed towards that aim.

There's a sound reason why evil is allowed, for a time, IOW. But maybe I'm just not understanding your point-and maybe you can explain it better to me.

Demonstrate #10 from scripture.

 

[fhansen]

Demonstrate #10 from scripture.

Christ paid the price for the redemption of all humankind. And yet no benefit comes to the individual unless and until they answer the call and enter union with God: until they're reborn, regenerated, made new creations, etc, and remain in that state of sonship. This is all a matter of grace and yet grace can be resisted at any point-man can always say "no".

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned." John 15:5-6

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” Matt 7:24-27

"The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." Matt 13:20-21

"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning." 2 Pet 2:20

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." Heb 6:4-6

"He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”" Rev 21:6-8

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Rev 22:14-15

"Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." Matt 24:12-13

"Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me." Matt 16:24

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me." Rev 3:20

All of these and many more speak of the need for us to do our part in response to grace, and continue to do so until the end in order to enter and remain in God's family.