Verses relating to Women

[PrNcSsChRmNg91]

There are some verses relating to women that I don't understand. Please clear them up for me, thanks!

Exodus:21:7-8
If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her.

I especially don't understand the next one, why are woman unpure longer if she gives birth to a girl than to a boy?:

Leviticus 12:1-8
The LORD said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites: 'A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over. If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.
" 'When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering. He shall offer them before the LORD to make atonement for her, and then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood.
" 'These are the regulations for the woman who gives birth to a boy or a girl. If she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.' "

Leviticus 15: 19-30, 33
" 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.
" 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.
" 'If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.
" 'When a woman has a discharge of blood for many days at a time other than her monthly period or has a discharge that continues beyond her period, she will be unclean as long as she has the discharge, just as in the days of her period. Any bed she lies on while her discharge continues will be unclean, as is her bed during her monthly period, and anything she sits on will be unclean, as during her period. Whoever touches them will be unclean; he must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 'When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.
for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who lies with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.

A question for this next verse, why are the women worth less than the men?

Leviticus 27:1-7
The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'If anyone makes a special vow to dedicate persons to the LORD by giving equivalent values, 3 set the value of a male between the ages of twenty and sixty at fifty shekels of silver, according to the sanctuary shekel ; and if it is a female, set her value at thirty shekels. If it is a person between the ages of five and twenty, set the value of a male at twenty shekels and of a female at ten shekels. If it is a person between one month and five years, set the value of a male at five shekels of silver and that of a female at three shekels of silver. If it is a person sixty years old or more, set the value of a male at fifteen shekels and of a female at ten shekels.

 

[d0c markus]

oh.... hmm i was hopin this would discuss the verses in 1 tim 2, and 1 cor 13-14.

Wasnt prepared for this.. i dunno how to answer your question..... DO you disagree with the lord most high?

 

[PrNcSsChRmNg91]

I never said I disagreed, I just do not understand the verses above and I was hoping for someone to clear it up for me.

 

[d0c markus]

RIGHT ON mE EITHER....

 

[Risen Tree]

Cultural context, perhaps?

 

[Serapha]

Hi there!


I'm sorry that no one has stepped up to answer your question. I saw several responses and didn't even read the question...


but now...

Exodus:21:7-8
If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her.

Hi there!

Well, a manservant could be marked as "free" by giving a tooth or by the loss of an eye (Read John Gill's commentary on Ex. 21). Perhaps, it is "mercy" that the law stipulate that a daugher not go free (which required a mark) in the same manner as men. I don't wany my daughter marked with teeth or eyes missing.


<gr*n> with a missing "i" ... er tooth.

~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

I especially don't understand the next one, why are woman unpure longer if she gives birth to a girl than to a boy?:

Leviticus 12:1-8
The LORD said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites: 'A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over. If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.
" 'When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering. He shall offer them before the LORD to make atonement for her, and then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood.
" 'These are the regulations for the woman who gives birth to a boy or a girl. If she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.' "

Hi there!



I am not "at home" for several day, but I will return later to post a lengthy response to this question if you wish. The difference between giving birth to a son or daughter and the time involved may appear as discriminatory to women, but the Jews viewed women as active participants in the giving and nurturing of life; therefore, when a woman gave birth to a daughter, which meant that a new participant in nurturing life was created, the time was doubled to accomodate for the ritual impurity of loss of blood of "two".


~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

eviticus 27:1-7
The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'If anyone makes a special vow to dedicate persons to the LORD by giving equivalent values, 3 set the value of a male between the ages of twenty and sixty at fifty shekels of silver, according to the sanctuary shekel ; and if it is a female, set her value at thirty shekels. If it is a person between the ages of five and twenty, set the value of a male at twenty shekels and of a female at ten shekels. If it is a person between one month and five years, set the value of a male at five shekels of silver and that of a female at three shekels of silver. If it is a person sixty years old or more, set the value of a male at fifteen shekels and of a female at ten shekels.

Hi there!



It is not that women are worth less than men, but that the work that the women and young girls performed was less costly to the household. If you filed a lawsuit today, the same similar guidelines would be followed, payment not being made by position, but by performance.

~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

Hi there!



this is interesting....

This is for my girls
All around the world
Who've come across a man
That don't respect your worth
Thinking all women should be seen not heard
So what do we do girls?
Shout louder
Letting 'em know we're gonna stand our ground
Lift your hands high and wave 'em proud
Take a deep breath and say it out loud
Never Can
Never Will
CAN'T HOLD US DOWN!
~Christina Aguilera "Can't Hold Us Down"

Hi there!



I don't know of a biblical text that tells women to "stand their ground" and to "shout louder".


I usually find that when women are busy "shouting" and "standing their ground" that their "work" is being neglected to do so.

I am a firm believer in "blooming where you are planted".... without regard to gender.





~serapha~


Be all God wants you to be and you won't have to "shout" and "stand ground" to do that. In any part of our life, it is our job to plant the seed, and let God provide the increase.... and for goodness sakes, if God doesn't tell you to stand up and shout.. If He doesn't open then door, then don't do it on your own.




~serapha~

 

[Worddancer]

Ouch . . those are almost painful to read . . I hope someone else has some reeeeeally good insights . . I almost have to think it's cultural influences, but . . I'm open to hearing differently.

 

[Serapha]

Ouch . . those are almost painful to read . . I hope someone else has some reeeeeally good insights . . I almost have to think it's cultural influences, but . . I'm open to hearing differently.

Hi there!




I would invite you to share your insights, but it is an exposition forum.


~serapha~

 

[PrNcSsChRmNg91]

I don't know of a biblical text that tells women to "stand their ground" and to "shout louder".


I usually find that when women are busy "shouting" and "standing their ground" that their "work" is being neglected to do so.

I am a firm believer in "blooming where you are planted".... without regard to gender.

I think you misunderstand what those words mean in the song LOL! =)

What it means to "stand your ground" in the song is that when someone pushes you around or takes advantage of you, you need to stand up for yourself. I'm not sure if in the Bible it states to women to stand up for yourslef, but I doubt God would want to see His daughters always getting pushed around but now standing up for themselves.

Also with "shout louder". If your views or ideas are constantly being disregarded by men just because your a woman, you shouldn't be quiet and just flow along with that man. You need to express your views even "louder" so that you can get your message across.

Anyways back on the verses subject - Serapha, you make excellent points and I understand those verses now from a different angle. When I first read those verses I was thinking that they were sexist, but now I realize that they aren't sexist and I just misinterpreted (sp?) them.

 

[Crazy Liz]

There are some verses relating to women that I don't understand. Please clear them up for me, thanks!

Exodus:21:7-8
If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her.

Actually, I think this means that a female slave must be treated as a wife, rather than as property if her master has had sex with her. He can let her father buy her back, or he can divorce her with all the dignity of a divorced women (not the mutilation that might go with freeing a male slave) allowing her to marry anyone she might choose, but he can't sell her. I think the point of this verse is to prohibit female sexual slavery. If a man sells his daughter as a slave to pay his debt (ugh!) this does not mean she is being sold into sexual slavery. She will either work as a household servant (who may be married to a male slave of the same master) or if she has sex with the master or his son, she is no longer to be treated as a slave, but as a wife or, at worst, as a virgin who was raped in the countryside. Female slaves also can't be sold to foreigners, again, to prevent sexual slavery.

 

[Cara J]

I think Serapha cleared up all the questions about the cultural context of these verses.
So, I just have to point out that:
These old laws do not apply to Christians.

Romans 7: 4-6
So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

 

[lands21]

Need to understand the context this was written in. Also remember, this was much closer to Adam and Eve.

 

[Entropy]

Exodus:21:7-8 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her."

v10 continues the section above, and says "if he takes himself another [wife] ... her conjugal rights shall not diminish," which would indicate this section is talking about marriage. So, if a man paid a dowry for a wife, but breached the contract, then the girl's family can buy (redeem) her back, and she can't be sold to someone else by the would-be husband, because he breached the contract.

Lev 12:1-8.
The ceremonial uncleaness would mean several things ... it would mean she couldn't do her normal work (cooking, running the house, etc.) and so would have time to recuperate from childbirth. She would be able to have a month or two where her only duty was her child. I don't know why the time of uncleanness would be different for having a boy or girl though ... to take a wild shot, perhaps to allow the mother and daughter extra bonding time to establish their future relationship, that sons wouldn't need with their mom?

Lev 15:19-30, 33
For the first part (19-24), being unclean would allow for being less busy, which would help for cramps. And while perhaps strange to our thinking, the first part of the chapter deals with male discharges, and the uncleanness and sacrifices described are very similar to those for the women (compare Lev 15:14-15 to Lev 15:29-30) so I don't see this as being unfair or anything like that.
For 25-33, the woman has something unnnatural, most likely a disease, and being unclean would help as a quarantine. Uncleanness rules for female diseases are similar to those for males.


Leviticus 27:1-7
In this passage, women are worth less than men because of the importance of physical labour in their society. Note also that the young (<20) and the old (>60) were worth less than those of moderate age, which would support this conclusion. Even today, physical labour jobs have far more men than women, which is at least partially due to the fact that men are, on average, bigger and stronger. Go back a few thousand years to when there's few non-physical labour jobs available, and it might be easier to see that the work output of a man would be greater than that of a woman, and so a man, as a labourer, would be worth more.


Just some thoughts, perhaps they will help.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Exodus:21:7-8 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her."

v10 continues the section above, and says "if he takes himself another [wife] ... her conjugal rights shall not diminish," which would indicate this section is talking about marriage. So, if a man paid a dowry for a wife, but breached the contract, then the girl's family can buy (redeem) her back, and she can't be sold to someone else by the would-be husband, because he breached the contract.

Selling his daughter as a servant does not seem to be the same as giving her as a wife, although money changes hands in both transactions. However, if either the master or his son has sex with her, she changes from the status of a slave to the status of a wife or daughter. If he wants to divorce her, her family can buy her back, but if they don't, he still has to free her, not sell her.

Lev 12:1-8.
The ceremonial uncleaness would mean several things ... it would mean she couldn't do her normal work (cooking, running the house, etc.) and so would have time to recuperate from childbirth. She would be able to have a month or two where her only duty was her child. I don't know why the time of uncleanness would be different for having a boy or girl though ... to take a wild shot, perhaps to allow the mother and daughter extra bonding time to establish their future relationship, that sons wouldn't need with their mom?

In this one I think you are very close. It is not that the sons wouldn't need their mom, but they would need to be introduced into the company of men, while a daughter wouldn't. She could stay with her mother and the other women for a longer bonding period.