The 1 John test.

[Neostarwcc]

What are the basics to understanding exactly what John meant in his first letter to the Christians of his age? Are these points of John instantaneous upon regeneration and will ALL of them be a 100% requirement for salvation? In other words is 1 John a complete instant test and failing even one part of the test makes you unsaved or not?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I'm not sure what you're asking.

John himself tells Christian brethren to ask forgiveness for any sin.

Is there something in 1 John that is getting under your skin?

 

[Neostarwcc]

I'm not sure what you're asking.

John himself tells Christian brethren to ask forgiveness for any sin.

I apologize I haven't had the greatest amount of sleep the last few weeks. In John's letter to the Christians the apostle John gives between 6 and 8 ways to tell for sure of you are saved and are a true Christian. I really can only remember one for an example but one of them was "if you claim to walk in the light yet, walk in the darkness you lie and don't practice the truth". My question was are these evidences instantaneous immediately upon regeneration or does it take time like sanctification? Can you have 5 of the qualities and get a 6th one later? And are all 6 of these points that John brings up required for salvation? If I still don't make sense I apologize I'll reply to the topic when I'm more clear headed.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I apologize I haven't had the greatest amount of sleep the last few weeks. In John's letter to the Christians the apostle John gives between 6 and 8 ways to tell for sure of you are saved and are a true Christian. I really can only remember one for an example but one of them was "if you claim to walk in the light yet, walk in the darkness you lie and don't practice the truth". My question was are these evidences instantaneous immediately upon regeneration or does it take time like sanctification? Can you have 5 of the qualities and get a 6th one later? And are all 6 of these points that John brings up required for salvation? If I still don't make sense I apologize I'll reply to the topic when I'm more clear headed.

I John seems to be intended as a comfort to the Brethren.

If someone has or thinks they have the Holy Spirit, they can confirm it's the Holy Spirit in this way, and it goes through many things in order to confirm faith.

Certainly sanctification is a process and even at the end of a life spent walking with God a person will still find things they need to work on, even after 45 of years walking with Christ.

These are intended as general points, but John himself says that if we have points we need to work out, we can have confidence when going to God for forgiveness that we will be forgiven.

Read 1 John 3:19-24


If our hearts condemn us God is greater than our hearts. John said that so remember this. We are justified by faith in Him. Not by our works, though our works will be many.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I John seems to be intended as a comfort to the Brethren.

If someone has or thinks they have the Holy Spirit, they can confirm it's the Holy Spirit in this way, and it goes through many things in order to confirm faith.

Certainly sanctification is a process and even at the end of a life spent walking with God a person will still find things they need to work on, even after 45 of years walking with Christ.

These are intended as general points, but John himself says that if we have points we need to work out, we can have confidence when going to God for forgiveness that we will be forgiven.

Read 1 John 3:19-24


If our hearts condemn us God is greater than our hearts. John said that so remember this. We are justified by faith in Him. Not by our works, though our works will be many.

I was just wondering ive never considered it thag way before. I've lately been studying the book of 1 John and even our Elder uses 1 John as a test for regeneration. Well he likes the Sproul Method the best (if you have an ounce of love for the Biblical Jesus than that's a work of the HS)

There was a Steven Lawson clip I saw about 4 years ago that said if you lacked ANY of those points though that there is no way you can be saved.

I have to say, I've definitely seen the work of God in my lifetime and to me it's blatantly clear but even I lack some of the attributes of 1 John. 1 John imo is meant to convict but whether or not 1 John is a definitive proof text, idk. Especially when every Christian is being sanctified by God in different ways.

 

[d taylor]

What are the basics to understanding exactly what John meant in his first letter to the Christians of his age? Are these points of John instantaneous upon regeneration and will ALL of them be a 100% requirement for salvation? In other words is 1 John a complete instant test and failing even one part of the test makes you unsaved or not?

-

​

A person becomes a permanent born again child of God, the very moment they believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. There are no test to see if the believer has believed.

If a person does not know if they believe in something, then that person can not be helped.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I was just wondering ive never considered it thag way before. I've lately been studying the book of 1 John and even our Elder uses 1 John as a test for regeneration. Well he likes the Sproul Method the best (if you have an ounce of love for the Biblical Jesus than that's a work of the HS)

There was a Steven Lawson clip I saw about 4 years ago that said if you lacked ANY of those points though that there is no way you can be saved.

I have to say, I've definitely seen the work of God in my lifetime and to me it's blatantly clear but even I lack some of the attributes of 1 John. 1 John imo is meant to convict but whether or not 1 John is a definitive proof text, idk. Especially when every Christian is being sanctified by God in different ways.

I wouldn't use it as a proof text, no.

But it's not nothing either.

If you see work in you that God has done, but you see issues you still need to work on, then work on them.

Like Paul said, make your calling and election sure.

But even so, where we fail Jesus does not. That's why He's our Savior.

I go back and forth... I work, do my very best in Him, I see my every failing all the more, in tears I ask for forgiveness and hang on for dear life to His promises and then go back to work..

Over and over until we see Him face to face...

The closer we are to Christ, the more we see our own sin. The more we see our own sin the more we hang on for dear life to His promises, the more we know of Him the harder we desire to work to be and do what is pleasing to Him.

It's circular, or seems so to me, and it's for the rest of our natural lives.

But in the end, we are still left hanging on to Him alone, because we never added anything to Salvation... Salvation is of the Lord... It's why we can have such confidence in it.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

What are the basics to understanding exactly what John meant in his first letter to the Christians of his age? Are these points of John instantaneous upon regeneration and will ALL of them be a 100% requirement for salvation? In other words is 1 John a complete instant test and failing even one part of the test makes you unsaved or not?

Studied 1 John for many years. I even wrote a more literal version with annotations.
The book is written specifically for born-again believers, and it should be read in that context throughout.
Trying to use this for evangelism may not bear the fruits you want... but of course, it can be done. It is all good!
Consider doing this. Read all 5 chapters in the context that it is referencing born again believers. Especially chapter 1, 3, and 5.
Some of it will not make sense if you do not hold in your mind he is talking to regenerates about regenerates.
Thanks for the thread!

 

[AlexB23]

What are the basics to understanding exactly what John meant in his first letter to the Christians of his age? Are these points of John instantaneous upon regeneration and will ALL of them be a 100% requirement for salvation? In other words is 1 John a complete instant test and failing even one part of the test makes you unsaved or not?

Man, this question of yours was difficult to decipher, but I will try my best.


Alright, here is the Cliffs Notes (Cliffs Notes is an expression by the way, as these were a brand of online study guides I used to decipher Shakespeare back in 7th grade) rundown of John's teachings in his first letter to the early Christians, as recorded in the New Testament book of 1 John. However, it is essential to clarify that I cannot definitively answer whether John's teachings are instantaneous upon regeneration or a complete test for salvation, as that is a matter of theological interpretation. Here are some biblical verses from 1 John that can help provide context and understanding:

1. Love and obedience to God (1 John 2:3-6): "We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, 'I know him,' but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God and obedience to him are proven right."

2. Avoiding sin (1 John 3:4-9): "Whoever sins is lawless, sinning not against God but against the Lord Christ. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."

3. Believing in Jesus Christ (1 John 2:22-23): "Who is the liar but whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ? Whoever denies the Father and the Son is a liar and has not seen the truth. And this is the truth: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

4. Living in fellowship with other believers (1 John 1:6-7): "If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."

These verses touch on the themes of love for God, obedience to His commands, avoiding sin, belief in Jesus Christ, and living in fellowship with other believers. While these teachings can be essential aspects of the Christian life, it is important to remember that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross. The specifics of how John's teachings apply to salvation and the Christian life are matters of ongoing theological debate among scholars and believers.

 

[BobRyan]

What are the basics to understanding exactly what John meant in his first letter to the Christians of his age? Are these points of John instantaneous upon regeneration and will ALL of them be a 100% requirement for salvation? In other words is 1 John a complete instant test and failing even one part of the test makes you unsaved or not?

How did you get TULIP out of John 1 or 1 John ??

 

[BobRyan]

I apologize I haven't had the greatest amount of sleep the last few weeks. In John's letter to the Christians the apostle John gives between 6 and 8 ways to tell for sure of you are saved and are a true Christian. I really can only remember one for an example but one of them was "if you claim to walk in the light yet, walk in the darkness you lie and don't practice the truth". My question was are these evidences instantaneous immediately upon regeneration or does it take time like sanctification? Can you have 5 of the qualities and get a 6th one later? And are all 6 of these points that John brings up required for salvation? If I still don't make sense I apologize I'll reply to the topic when I'm more clear headed.

None of which shows irresistible grace or limited-gospel

1 John 2:2 "He is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only - but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"
John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave"... not just-the-Jews
1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD" -- not "just the Jews)
John 1:11 "He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not"

Is 5:4 WHAT MORE was there to do that I have not already done? WHY then when I expected GOOD did it produce bad?

2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING for ANY to perish but rather for ALL the come to repentance"
Rom 2:11 "God is not partial"

And yes - Matt 7 - God knows that only the few will be saved.

 

[Neostarwcc]

How did you get TULIP out of John 1 or 1 John ??

Umm that's slightly off topic but I can answer. Many reformed theologians claim that the Greek word for "world" can and likely means people from around the world. So they claim a more accurate translation of that John says in 1 John 2:2 would be "God is the precipitation for our sins and not just our sins (the Jewish people) but for everybody from around the world (the gentiles).

I can't defend this because i don't know Greek but for those who can read it that's what I've heard as the typical defense as to how John taught limited atonement. I'm curious as to where you got your question though. At first I thought it was from my signature but my signature doesn't list 1 John as a verse that teaches limited atonement. Had I made the signature I probably would have added it.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Man, this question of yours was difficult to decipher, but I will try my best.


Alright, here is the Cliffs Notes (Cliffs Notes is an expression by the way, as these were a brand of online study guides I used to decipher Shakespeare back in 7th grade) rundown of John's teachings in his first letter to the early Christians, as recorded in the New Testament book of 1 John. However, it is essential to clarify that I cannot definitively answer whether John's teachings are instantaneous upon regeneration or a complete test for salvation, as that is a matter of theological interpretation. Here are some biblical verses from 1 John that can help provide context and understanding:

1. Love and obedience to God (1 John 2:3-6): "We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, 'I know him,' but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God and obedience to him are proven right."

2. Avoiding sin (1 John 3:4-9): "Whoever sins is lawless, sinning not against God but against the Lord Christ. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."

3. Believing in Jesus Christ (1 John 2:22-23): "Who is the liar but whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ? Whoever denies the Father and the Son is a liar and has not seen the truth. And this is the truth: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

4. Living in fellowship with other believers (1 John 1:6-7): "If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."

These verses touch on the themes of love for God, obedience to His commands, avoiding sin, belief in Jesus Christ, and living in fellowship with other believers. While these teachings can be essential aspects of the Christian life, it is important to remember that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross. The specifics of how John's teachings apply to salvation and the Christian life are matters of ongoing theological debate among scholars and believers.

I apologize for being unclear I'm recovering from a episode so I'm having a harder time than normal making complete sense. I probably should be avoiding religion right now but i love talking about it. Anyway, I was just mostly wondering because there are a lot of Pastors and Theologians that will use 1 John as a Salvation test because it apparently proves whether or not a person is regenerated and if they lack any of those points than they're not generated.

Just about the only major reformed Theologian that I've heard not talk about 1 John was Sproul. It's kind of everywhere and 1 John can be a reality check and it can guide us on our Journey with God but to downright say you have to have all of the qualities to be regenerated? Nah. I think Paul made a good self test about regeneration when he described the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[AlexB23]

I apologize for being unclear I'm recovering from a episode so I'm having a harder time than normal making complete sense. I probably should be avoiding religion right now but i love talking about it. Anyway, I was just mostly wondering because there are a lot of Pastors and Theologians that will use 1 John as a Salvation test because it apparently proves whether or not a person is regenerated and if they lack any of those points than they're not generated.

Just about the only major reformed Theologian that I've heard not talk about 1 John was Sproul. It's kind of everywhere and 1 John can be a reality check and it can guide us on our Journey with God but to downright say you have to have all of the qualities to be regenerated? Nah. I think Paul made a good self test about regeneration when he described the fruits of the Spirit.

Well, I hope you are getting better and I will pray that you will never have an episode again. I am not in any position to answer this question, as I am not a theologian. We should just focus on regular John, verse 3:16. Jesus was sent here to save us. We will be regenerated in heaven.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Well, I hope you are getting better and I will pray that you will never have an episode again. I am not in any position to answer this question, as I am not a theologian. We should just focus on regular John, verse 3:16. Jesus was sent here to save us. We will be regenerated in heaven.

Thank you! I appreciate the support from CF that i've gotten all the years i've been posting here. I more than likely will have more episodes but im hoping the med switch will make them less frequent and make the 40 pound weight gain that ive suffered the last few weeks worth it lol.

Haven't you heard from Sproul? Everyone that believes in God is a theologian lol. No but really, it doesn't take a doctoral degree to figure out the basics of theology and to figure out John's point in 1 John. John could have meant it as a test to see if one has the Holy Spirit but honestly I somehow don't think so.

 

[AlexB23]

Thank you! I appreciate the support from CF that i've gotten all the years i've been posting here. I more than likely will have more episodes but im hoping the med switch will make them less frequent and make the 40 pound weight gain that ive suffered the last few weeks worth it lol.

Haven't you heard from Sproul? Everyone that believes in God is a theologian lol. No but really, it doesn't take a doctoral degree to figure out the basics of theology and to figure out John's point in 1 John. John could have meant it as a test to see if one has the Holy Spirit but honestly I somehow don't think so.

You are welcome bro. Hopefully the new medication works out for you. I have not heard much from Sproul. I go to a Catholic church, and his wiki says that he is Presbyterian. But hey, I will check him out, after I watch a PBS documentary on Julius Caesar that someone on CF recommended.

 

[Lukaris]

I believe 1 John is a faith commitment in living by faith in which we are to keep the Lord’s commandments. The commandments that are within the overall commandment to love God & neighbor. The apostle tells us to love our neighbor but not this fallen world. Much of this is covered in 1 John 2:1-29.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I apologize I haven't had the greatest amount of sleep the last few weeks. In John's letter to the Christians the apostle John gives between 6 and 8 ways to tell for sure of you are saved and are a true Christian. I really can only remember one for an example but one of them was "if you claim to walk in the light yet, walk in the darkness you lie and don't practice the truth". My question was are these evidences instantaneous immediately upon regeneration or does it take time like sanctification? Can you have 5 of the qualities and get a 6th one later? And are all 6 of these points that John brings up required for salvation? If I still don't make sense I apologize I'll reply to the topic when I'm more clear headed.

I think when it comes to 1 John it's probably best to take a more Orthodox view of salvation being a process. And what you're more inclined towards. Like are you more inclined to walk in the dark or the light. And is it your desire to walk in the light instead of the dark.

You might find this lecture going through 1 John helpful.