Police officer hiring in US increases in 2023 after years of decline, survey shows

[rjs330]

US Park Police: requires 4 years of college or some combination of work and college

You know that's for wildlife and not policing right?

 

[Pommer]

There is no doubt that the way schools are funded is an issue.

Good. Let’s resolve to fund schools in a way that doesn’t look like they “holding-cells” until enough prisons can be built?
How’s about the same funding-mechanisms for schools as for police departments?
(Of course, if we funded police departments via property tax (like we do with schools), poorer areas would have less of a police presence instead of more.

 

[Pommer]

You know that's for wildlife and not policing right?

Right mainly dealing with animals.
Of course, dealing with the craftiest animal should require something more than a willingness to do the job.

 

[rjs330]

NY State Police requires ~4 years of college. MD State police requires a high school diploma.

I don't think going to college makes you any better of a cop. Criminal Justice training doesn't train you haw to be a police officer. You could go to school and get a biology degree and not learn a thing about being a cop.

For most local police forces, there is no outside auditor or inspector general. They're on the hook for investigating themselves. At the federal level, however, those IG's are everywhere.

I don't think these IGs are worth a fig. Most agencies do a good job of investigating internal issues.

I've spoken with quite a few chiefs and administration who's hands have been tied when it come to their officers. Tied by the unions. They can't discipline or suspend or fire bad cops. And when they try the union forbids it.

Yes, their purpose is to "commit war," yet they have more restrictive rules of engagement and more oversight of their use of force.

I don't think they do have more restrictive rules. That's baloney. The cops are bound by the courts, rhe constitution, the constitution of their state as well as the laws of their state.

I also don't think there is more oversight on the use of force either. The military code of justice is vastly different than civilian law and soldiers don't belong to unions. So the military has a LOT more leeway in how they handle a rogue soldier.

yep

How's that going?

 

[rjs330]

Good. Let’s resolve to fund schools in a way that doesn’t look like they “holding-cells” until enough prisons can be built?
How’s about the same funding-mechanisms for schools as for police departments?
(Of course, if we funded police departments via property tax (like we do with schools), poorer areas would have less of a police presence instead of more.

It might surprise you to know that property taxes do go toward police funding. People can vote for mil levies to spend more money on a schools and police if they want to.

It all comes down to tax dollars baby. And if you'd rather spend the money on schools then the money isn't going to the cops for training. You need to convince more people.to fork out more money if you want the cops to train more. You know firefighters train a lot. Police don't have the time. They are too busy running from call to call. Training comes with a serious cost for them because it's overtime and they have to have specialized instructors. Or you need a lot more cops so that you still have cops working the streets while others train. Firefighters all come into the station and train. Cops can't do that.

 

[rjs330]

Right mainly dealing with animals.
Of course, dealing with the craftiest animal should require something more than a willingness to do the job.

I don't disagree. Now if you can just convince the government of that and to fork out the money for it that would be great!

 

[A2SG]

But don't think that there will be no more people killed or injured by cops if they had more de-escalation training. I think there would be fewer uses of force with it. But I'm not convinced yet that the affect would be dramatic.

For comparisons sake, police officers in England and Wales have fatally shot less people in 24 years than US officers have killed in the first 24 DAYS of 2015:

By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years

The Guardian has built the most comprehensive database of US police killing ever published. Compare our findings to those from the UK, Australia, Iceland and beyond

www.theguardian.com

-- A2SG, dunno about you, but I'd call that a pretty dramatic difference....

 

[Pommer]

It might surprise you to know that property taxes do go toward police funding. People can vote for mil levies to spend more money on a schools and police if they want to.

It all comes down to tax dollars baby. And if you'd rather spend the money on schools then the money isn't going to the cops for training. You need to convince more people.to fork out more money if you want the cops to train more. You know firefighters train a lot. Police don't have the time. They are too busy running from call to call. Training comes with a serious cost for them because it's overtime and they have to have specialized instructors. Or you need a lot more cops so that you still have cops working the streets while others train. Firefighters all come into the station and train. Cops can't do that.

If we’re going to allow money to come in between us having a just system, and having educated children, them we’ll likely get exactly what we’ve paid for.

 

[iluvatar5150]

You know that's for wildlife and not policing right?

No, that’s not correct.

United States Park Police (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

 

[hislegacy]

I tried, but could not find precise numbers

Thank you for your unsubstantiated claim.

This was the start - followed by police - followed by people living in cities. Regardless - ZERO gun regulations - lots and lots of guns - High poverty rates and no spike in crime.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Thank you for your unsubstantiated claim.

View attachment 346928

This was the start - followed by police - followed by people living in cities. Regardless - ZERO gun regulations - lots and lots of guns - High poverty rates and no spike in crime.

The Tommy gun was only in production for 13 years of "zero gun regulations", 1921-1934. It was expensive and sales were modest until the military adopted it in 1938.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | A Look Back at the Thompson Submachine Gun

There is only a limited supply of Thompsons left, and fewer yet that can be fired. Learn the history of this iconic submachine gun.

www.americanrifleman.org

Regardless of whether the overall crime rate went up, the nature of certain crimes was a big driver behind the imposition of high taxes on automatic weapons.

 

[hislegacy]

Regardless of whether the overall crime rate went up, the nature of certain crimes was a big driver behind the imposition of high taxes on automatic weapons.

ppssst - the conversation is not about taxes on machine guns, but the readily available weaponry combined with a high poverty rate of the depression that did NOT result in a rise in crime.

Which flies in the face of the claim

Poverty is the biggest driver of crime.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Thank you for your unsubstantiated claim.

View attachment 346928

This was the start - followed by police - followed by people living in cities. Regardless - ZERO gun regulations - lots and lots of guns - High poverty rates and no spike in crime.

I gave you the information I could find and I looked it up before posting the first time. If I had had exact numbers I would have used them. Your "counterevidence" is to post an *advertisement*. No one said that there weren't any Tommy guns in private hands or that they hadn't been acquired legally. They are iconic as the guns of the prohibition gangsters.

Your little ad doesn't say what they cost. So what did a Tommy gun cost to purchase? How does that compare to the cost of modern infantry rifles in civilian hands?

You make a counter-claim about "lots of guns" and don't provide any evidence of it. So don't give me that holier than thou nonsense about backing claims.

 

[iluvatar5150]

ppssst - the conversation is not about taxes on machine guns, but the readily available weaponry combined with a high poverty rate of the depression that did NOT result in a rise in crime.

Pssst, the gun wasn't "readily available" because it was so expensive, partly due to the tax imposed by the National Firearms Act of 1934. The $200 tax effectively doubled the already-high purchase price of the weapon itself.

National Firearms Act | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The NFA was originally enacted in 1934. Similar to the current NFA, the original Act imposed a tax on the making and transfer of firearms defined by the Act, as well as a special (occupational) tax on persons and entities engaged in the business of importing, manufacturing, and dealing in NFA...

www.atf.gov

Arguing that Tommy Guns were "readily available" is like arguing that Lamborghinis are readily available. Sure, they might be in some sense, but not a practical one.

 

[hislegacy]

Arguing that Tommy Guns were "readily available" is like arguing that Lamborghinis are readily available. Sure, they might be in some sense, but not a practical one.

Thank you for your opinion.

It does not change the FACT that there were NO gun regulations, guns were everywhere and the crime did not rise.

Proving that poverty is Not the biggest driver of crime.

 

[rjs330]

If we’re going to allow money to come in between us having a just system, and having educated children, them we’ll likely get exactly what we’ve paid for.

Well that's certainly true to a point. Money us needed for certain things. More money does not akeays equate to better things where government is concerned. Education is evidence of that. We spend more money on education in the US than the EU does oer child. Yet they constantly grade higher than we do. Chile spends a lot but has one of the lowest education systems. You could go state by state and see that more money does not a I ways equate to better education. There are things we could right now that wouldn't cost us more money. In fact it would save us money. And the savings could go into the teachers pockets. Also evening out the the expenditures would help certain areas.

If Boston had a single collection point for it's school funding and passed that Money out evenly across all districts you could obtain a clear picture of which districts perform the worst. Then use problem-solving to fix the issues in the worst districts. If the other districts are doing well why isn't this one.

With cops more money is required for more training. Simply due to the job they do. You could have longer academies. Say one year before hitting the street. The continue into a Field Training Program that lasts a full year.
.that's two full years if training before a cop is left alone.
.
Then there is on going specialized training for police in ethics, use of force de_escalation, dealing with people in crisis. The changes in the law, active shooters and the list goes on, such as physical defense. All of that takes a lot of money to pay for instructors taking people off the street to train. This will require more Cops as well. In the case of police it's already been shown that you get what you pay for. Low pay gets you a lesser quality of candidate.

I seriously would like the academy be at least a full year of training. With communications including de-escalation traing getting as many hours as physical skills and firearms skills. Many more hours on law. Officers when ygey I eave tge academy ought to kniw tge law backward and forward including arrest and search and seizure. All if that will build profesionalism into the profession. But getting communities to pay for it is another matter entirely.
.

 

[rjs330]

No, that’s not correct.

United States Park Police (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

It is for Fish Wildlife and Park people. How do I know? We have a university here where people go four years foe education and it's for wildlife.

It sounds like you are talking about a different type of parks department. Here is what I found regarding Park Rangers.
If you look at the types of degrees they want it's mostly all wildlife and environmental degrees, biology ecology etc. Just like I said.

How to Become a Park Ranger | State and Federal Park Ranger Education

Park rangers are often said to be the keepers of our nation’s natural resources and protected public lands. Their mission it is to preserve and protect our nation’s local, state and national parks for public use and enjoyment today, and for many years to come. Park rangers are there to educate...

www.parkrangeredu.org

Now if you are talking about national monuments, landmarks etc then they don't need any education. Previous experience as a law enforcement officer is enough. Without experience they so need some college credits but it's not four years and it's not LE education.

U.S. Park Police Officer Job Description: Salary, Skills, & More

Learn about being a United States Park Police Officers, including job duties, salary outlook, education requirements, and more.

www.liveabout.com

• Education and Experience: Applicants must have either 60 hours of college credit or two years of relevant work history. Prior law enforcement employment, military experience or a job in which you progressed in responsibility and authority may be considered as relevant work history.
• Background Check: A thorough background check is completed on all applicants. Common background check disqualifiers include past drug use and previous arrests and convictions, especially felony arrests.
• Training: Members of the U.S. Park Police force are fully sworn police officers. Candidates who are selected are sent to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Brunswick, Georgia for an 18-week police academy.

So it looks like they don't have much more training requirements than a lot of le agencies.

So I don't think you were correct here. 60 hours is an associates degree. And it doesn't have to be LE related. It could be bio Chem. So you could be a federal cop with a bio Chem associates degree and then 18 weeks of academy.

Not as much training requirements as you made it out to be.

 

[iluvatar5150]

It is for Fish Wildlife and Park people. How do I know? We have a university here where people go four years foe education and it's for wildlife.

It sounds like you are talking about a different type of parks department. Here is what I found regarding Park Rangers.
If you look at the types of degrees they want it's mostly all wildlife and environmental degrees, biology ecology etc. Just like I said.

That’s nice. I already linked to the Park Police website, which clearly shows them as being different than park rangers, unless there’s a big mountain lion problem in DC.

How to Become a Park Ranger | State and Federal Park Ranger Education

Park rangers are often said to be the keepers of our nation’s natural resources and protected public lands. Their mission it is to preserve and protect our nation’s local, state and national parks for public use and enjoyment today, and for many years to come. Park rangers are there to educate...

www.parkrangeredu.org

Now if you are talking about national monuments, landmarks etc then they don't need any education.

Yes, that’s what I’m talking about.

Previous experience as a law enforcement officer is enough. Without experience they so need some college credits but it's not four years and it's not LE education.

Welp, you’re right. 60 hours is 4 semesters, not 4 years. My mistake.