Not under the law?
- Thread starter SAAN
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So you are sinning by transgressing law that you are no longer under. Got it.
You are no longer under the curse of the law, that is what being under the law means. You would never say it is okay to murder or commuting sexual immorality which are laws of God. Like it or not as a Christan you are required to follow Gods laws and the bible is very clear of this, from the front of the bible top the back of the bible.
-Do not worship other Gods or idols, graven images or take his name in vain
-Set aside a day of rest for God for worship
-Dont lie, steal, kill, covet, commit adultery, disrespect your parents.
-Dont commit Sexual Immorality, Lev 18, 1 Cor 6:9-11, Gal 5, Rev 21
-Love one another the same way Jesus Love us John 13, 14, 15
-Believe in the name of Jesus, 1 John 3:23
This is what God commands of you and it is NOT putting you under the law by trying to live your life by honoring these commands.
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ChristsSoldier115
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Sheesh I take a break from it and look at this! it doubles in thread length. I'm not even going to read the other pages.
Let me respond again to this one. The underlined part mostly.
You are not required to do it. You just do it. If you think you have to do it, then you need to re-evaluate whether you are truly saved to begin with. You don't have to pray to God. You don't have to do good works. You don't have to witness to people. You WANT to, as a Christian.
Thats what the grace guys are trying to explain to you.
Edit:
The Law is so demanding of perfection because it is designed to point you to your wretched sinful nature and to Christ, who blood washes it away. You now sin because of the enticement of the sin to you. Your sinful nature should be diminished to gone due to the Holy Spirit now.
Double edit:
Case in point, your heart and mind should be on Christ, not the Law....period.
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I really pray for you on judgement day , if you think that following Gods commands in putting yourself under the law.
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And I pray for you if you think your dirty filthy works of the flesh will be rewarded by God.
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In regards to your comment:
You are not required to do it. You just do it.I can tell you that you are 100% wrong on this, Jesus himself says if you love him you will keep his commands, that is why we do it and should want to do it because we Love him. You do it because Jesus told you to do it, not becuase you just want to do it, which usually leads to picking and choosing how you will do it rather than what Jesus himself commands of you.
My mind is fully on Christ, that is why Im obeying his instructions to keep his commands.
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You are inverting the truth by thinking, "if I keep His commands, then I am loving Him". That's not what it says or means. If you love Him you "will" keep "His" commands. Not you might, sometimes...but that you "will". Why? Keep reading. Because He and the Father have made their home in us. The Law-Giver who is also the Law-Keeper has come to dwell in those who are His. It is Christ in you who lives the life you cannot, because the Christian life IS Christ and only He can live it.
Our job is to let Him...and that only by our continued faith in Him.
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ChristsSoldier115
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All these replies sound really great on this forum, but since we keep the law through Christ, lets take a look at real life and how Christianity as a whole now keeping Gods commands.
Since we are keeping his commands through Christ everything is okay and all is well and none of the follow is going currently on.
-50% divorce rate among believers
-False doctrines of taking scriptures of out context of extort money form people ( PROSPERITY GOSPEL)
38,000 denominations with constant bickering amongst believers in the church and here some examples:
-Sabbath vs Sunday
-What you are allowed to do on the Sabbath
-Holy Feast Days vs Holidays
-Using Sacred Hebrew Names vs using the English names in our bibles now
-Keeping the Dietary Laws vs eat whatever you want
-Keep Torah vs The Law is fulfilled
-The Trinity
-Communion as to how often it should be taken
-Tithing vs Offerings
-Head Coverings
-Hell for eternity
-The Rapture
-Baptism
-Dress Attire for church (dressy vs com as you are)
-Women should not wear pants
-Styles of worship (hooting and hollering vs conservative vs sit in silence)
-Women being able to preach
-Views on Homosexuality
This is why I say we can say all day long we are not under the law and we keep the commands through Christ, but Christianity is a complete joke to anyone from the outside looking in at the religion that says they love Jesus and follow his commands.
Since we are keeping his commands through Christ everything is okay and all is well and none of the follow is going currently on.
-50% divorce rate among believers
-False doctrines of taking scriptures of out context of extort money form people ( PROSPERITY GOSPEL)
38,000 denominations with constant bickering amongst believers in the church and here some examples:
-Sabbath vs Sunday
-What you are allowed to do on the Sabbath
-Holy Feast Days vs Holidays
-Using Sacred Hebrew Names vs using the English names in our bibles now
-Keeping the Dietary Laws vs eat whatever you want
-Keep Torah vs The Law is fulfilled
-The Trinity
-Communion as to how often it should be taken
-Tithing vs Offerings
-Head Coverings
-Hell for eternity
-The Rapture
-Baptism
-Dress Attire for church (dressy vs com as you are)
-Women should not wear pants
-Styles of worship (hooting and hollering vs conservative vs sit in silence)
-Women being able to preach
-Views on Homosexuality
This is why I say we can say all day long we are not under the law and we keep the commands through Christ, but Christianity is a complete joke to anyone from the outside looking in at the religion that says they love Jesus and follow his commands.
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No, no, no. Christ keeps the law through you. You keep getting it backwards.
If you were truly concerned about all those "others" who you think are doing so much worse than yourself, you would not be trying to put them under the law. It is the law that stirs up sin. Law is not the solution, it is the problem. What they need is grace, just as you do.
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F
from scratch
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Personally I think they have plenty justification for such an opinion. Just read the forums. No more evidence is needed. You talk about religion and I talk about a personal relationship with my Savior. The 2 are vastly different.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
I equate Christ kept the Law FOR you so you would focus on loving God and others instead of rules and regulations. In Christ the Law is done..... we can't keep it any better than he already did ON OUR BEHALF.
The Law is irrelevant to Christians nothing more than a history lesson to us if we walk in the spirit we have no need for commandments.
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Are you serious???
-Do not worship other Gods or idols, graven images or take his name in vain
-Set aside a day of rest for God for worship
-Dont lie, steal, kill, covet, commit adultery, disrespect your parents.
-Dont commit Sexual Immorality, Lev 18, 1 Cor 6:9-11, Gal 5, Rev 21
That is irrelevant to a Christian? The bible says quite the opposite
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Convince me that those who love God and their neighbor do any of these things you list..... I dare you.
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-Do not worship other Gods or idols, graven images or take his name in vain & Set aside a day of rest for God for worship
I agree no one who loves God will do any of the following and they do set aside a day or worship.
-Dont lie, steal, kill, covet, commit adultery, disrespect your parents. & Dont commit Sexual Immorality, Lev 18, 1 Cor 6:9-11, Gal 5, Rev 21
Lets look at the rest since many many believers have confessed with their mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in their heart and they are saved yet:
-It has been proven that 70-80% of believers engage in premarital sex
-Many believers are shacking up
-Many believers get drunk all the time
-Many believers curse and curse others out in a finger snap when they are upset.
-Adultery is a problem among believers too and constant remarrying as well.
-Pornography is a huge problem that close 50% of believers view porn.
- I wont even go into detail with all the coveting and disrespect of parents by Christians.
-Stealing by prosperity Gospel preachers extorting members into giving them all their money or else they are robbing God.
-Bible say to obey the laws of the land, yet most Christians have no regards to road rules and drive 20+ over the speed limit just like the rest of the world.
-Dont steal, but many Christians download illegal copies of software, music, and movies just like the rest of the world
Yet like you said, no one would Love God and their Neignbor and do any of what I listed above, but yet its rapant among Christians right now.
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F
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Are talking about your church? Such things never took place at my church. When such things did occur they (including the preacher) no longer attended for some reason.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Christians don't need to set aside a day they worship all the time every day.
They shouldn't be doing such, but then the Law hasn't proven to be a better option for preventing sin without its death penalty people are breaking it just the same but at least those who don't keep it aren't pretending they are righteous by doing so they just accept their righteousness in Christ and try to do better.
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1 John 3:4 "Sin is transgression of the Law"
1Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
So that brings us to the quote for this thread - in Romans 6.
============== Romans 6
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
Of course in Romans 6 this is all from Paul -- so unless someone isn't reading Paul at all - they will not miss this.
1Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
So that brings us to the quote for this thread - in Romans 6.
============== Romans 6
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
Of course in Romans 6 this is all from Paul -- so unless someone isn't reading Paul at all - they will not miss this.
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