Israel-Hamas Thread II

[JosephZ]

Fighting Flares Anew in Gaza as Hamas Regroups

The U.S. secretary of state warned that Israel’s victories over Hamas may not be “sustainable.”

As the Israeli military stepped up pressure on what it calls Hamas’s last stronghold in Gaza, fighting elsewhere in the Palestinian enclave on Sunday led to warnings that the militants might remain a force for a long time to come.

Close-quarters ground combat between Hamas fighters and Israeli troops raged in parts of northern Gaza over the weekend.

It has become a familiar scenario in the Gaza Strip over the course of the seven-month war: After pitched battles, Israel declares an area clear of Hamas, only to return after the militants reconstitute their forces.

On Sunday, Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken said he was concerned that Israel’s failure to lay down a template for the governance of Gaza meant that its victories might not be “sustainable” and would be followed by “chaos, by anarchy and ultimately by Hamas again.”

Palestine TV, a network affiliated with the Palestinian Authority, a rival to Hamas based in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, broadcast footage that it said showed civilians, many of them women and children, fleeing northern Gaza. Some were on foot, while others were on bicycles, in cars or piled onto carts drawn by donkeys.

“I am deeply distressed by the fast-deteriorating conditions in Gaza,” the United Nations’ human rights chief, Volker Türk, said in a statement about the fighting in the north.

 

[Philip_B]

Are you trying to tell us rhat Israel would have invaded Gaza to destroy Hamas when they did even if the invasion on October 7 wouldn't have occurred?

I made no such assertion or assumption, and that is certainly not what I think.

 

[ralliann]

I am going to presume you mean Israel. I have never questioned whether they were attacked or not. Aside from that I am not sure you understood the point I was making.

Yep, Sorry Israel. Ana mentioned land also won by war.

 

[Valletta]

United Nations cuts estimates of women, children deaths in Gaza war in half​

United Nations cuts estimates of women, children deaths in Gaza war in half

The United Nations reduced by half the number of women and children estimated to have been killed during Israel's war in Gaza.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Valletta]

United Nations cuts estimates of women, children deaths in Gaza war in half​

United Nations cuts estimates of women, children deaths in Gaza war in half

The United Nations reduced by half the number of women and children estimated to have been killed during Israel's war in Gaza.

www.yahoo.com

That's a start. It's sad so many just parrot Hamas propaganda.

 

[Valletta]

Fighting Flares Anew in Gaza as Hamas Regroups

The U.S. secretary of state warned that Israel’s victories over Hamas may not be “sustainable.”

As the Israeli military stepped up pressure on what it calls Hamas’s last stronghold in Gaza, fighting elsewhere in the Palestinian enclave on Sunday led to warnings that the militants might remain a force for a long time to come.

Close-quarters ground combat between Hamas fighters and Israeli troops raged in parts of northern Gaza over the weekend.

It has become a familiar scenario in the Gaza Strip over the course of the seven-month war: After pitched battles, Israel declares an area clear of Hamas, only to return after the militants reconstitute their forces.

On Sunday, Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken said he was concerned that Israel’s failure to lay down a template for the governance of Gaza meant that its victories might not be “sustainable” and would be followed by “chaos, by anarchy and ultimately by Hamas again.”

Palestine TV, a network affiliated with the Palestinian Authority, a rival to Hamas based in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, broadcast footage that it said showed civilians, many of them women and children, fleeing northern Gaza. Some were on foot, while others were on bicycles, in cars or piled onto carts drawn by donkeys.

“I am deeply distressed by the fast-deteriorating conditions in Gaza,” the United Nations’ human rights chief, Volker Türk, said in a statement about the fighting in the north.

Biden and Blinken have bought precious time for Hamas to regroup.

 

[JosephZ]

United Nations cuts estimates of women, children deaths in Gaza war in half​

United Nations cuts estimates of women, children deaths in Gaza war in half

The United Nations reduced by half the number of women and children estimated to have been killed during Israel's war in Gaza.

www.yahoo.com

That's a start. It's sad so many just parrot Hamas propaganda.

The numbers haven't actually changed. Before they were just reporting unverified numbers, the lower numbers are those that are verified with names attached. We won’t know the actual number and demographics of those killed in Gaza until they are able to count and verify the identity of all the dead bodies. Once that is done, we will likely find the numbers very close to what the Gaza Health Ministry reports, as has been the case in past conflicts.

The UN changed a graphic from 34,735 reported fatalities, of which 9,500 were women and 14,500 were children, to 34,844 reported fatalities, of which 24,686 have been positively identified, with 4,959 being women and 7,797 being children. Since women and especially children in Gaza are less likely to have birth certificates or some type of government ID, this would explain why they are underrepresented in the verified count of fatalities for now.

 

[essentialsaltes]

That's a start. It's sad so many just parrot Hamas propaganda.

The UN was quoting the Gazan medical authorities in both cases. One shows reported deaths, and the other shows deaths for which full identification is available.

 

[Valletta]

The UN was quoting the Gazan medical authorities in both cases. One shows reported deaths, and the other shows deaths for which full identification is available.

View attachment 347778
View attachment 347779

If any of Hamas survive those numbers can used against them in international war crime trials.

 

[ralliann]

Biden and Blinken have bought precious time for Hamas to regroup.

And given much encouragement to do so.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The earlier treaty, signed in 1920, was later rejected by the Turkish National Movement which actively opposed its terms. As a result of the Greco-Turkish War, İzmir was reclaimed, and the Armistice of Mudanya was signed in October 1922. This armistice provided for the exchange of Greek-Turkish populations and allowed unrestricted civilian, non-military passage through the Turkish Straits.​

Perhaps that might help

I cut out the irrelevant stuff....

Read that remaining part really closely. This is why I referred to the Lausanne treaty.

Do you understand who the Turkish National Movement was?

See, the Ottomans had already agreed to cede that territory to the British and French after their defeat....but there were remnants of the Ottomans who didn't agree to the loss of territory and the treaty that the Ottoman government had signed giving it up. The Turkish National Movement were the remnants of the Ottoman Empire (an empire formed by a tribe of Turks under Osman the Great).

The Lausanne agreement would have been the last formal legal challenge to British authority over any of the lands they controlled post Ottoman collapse.

The question now to you is....do you understand this? Do you agree that the region of Palestine was rightfully, lawfully, legally British at this point right up to the day they relinquished control of the region?

If not...why? I understand that the people of Palestine may not have liked the arrangement but it's hardly one they can dispute since they accepted Ottoman rule/authority/sovereignty over the region....and the Ottoman Empire was not a democracy. At no point did they ask the people of Palestine to vote on matters of the empire.

 

[Philip_B]

I cut out the irrelevant stuff....

Your filters either determine the outcome of your views, OR your views determine the filters you apply.

Your view appears to purport that the Palestinian People are an irrelevant vassal minority or no import. My view is that all people are made in the image and after to likeness of God, and matter enough to God that he would send his Son into the world ...

 

[stevevw]

The numbers haven't actually changed. Before they were just reporting unverified numbers, the lower numbers are those that are verified with names attached. We won’t know the actual number and demographics of those killed in Gaza until they are able to count and verify the identity of all the dead bodies. Once that is done, we will likely find the numbers very close to what the Gaza Health Ministry reports, as has been the case in past conflicts.

The UN changed a graphic from 34,735 reported fatalities, of which 9,500 were women and 14,500 were children, to 34,844 reported fatalities, of which 24,686 have been positively identified, with 4,959 being women and 7,797 being children. Since women and especially children in Gaza are less likely to have birth certificates or some type of government ID, this would explain why they are underrepresented in the verified count of fatalities for now.

View attachment 347776

I think this is misrepresenting the numbers. From what I understand around half of those killed were Hamas terrorists which seems to make sense considering that its Hamas that the Isrealis are mostly seeking out to kill and any civilians are those caught in the cross fire in trying to target Hamas.

Another factor that is not being destinguished is that many of the so called children killed are actually young males mostly under 18 or 16 years who are classed as children. They have been killed in combat fighting for Hamas as Hamas make kids into terrorists.

 

[ralliann]

Your filters either determine the outcome of your views, OR your views determine the filters you apply.

Your view appears to purport that the Palestinian People are an irrelevant vassal minority or no import.

What???

My view is that all people are made in the image and after to likeness of God, and matter enough to God that he would send his Son into the world ...

That is why Hamas needs to be defeated...

 

[JosephZ]

I think this is misrepresenting the numbers. From what I understand around half of those killed were Hamas terrorists which seems to make sense considering that its Hamas that the Isrealis are mostly seeking out to kill and any civilians are those caught in the cross fire in trying to target Hamas.

Another factor that is not being destinguished is that many of the so called children killed are actually young males mostly under 18 or 16 years who are classed as children. They have been killed in combat fighting for Hamas as Hamas make kids into terrorists.

We really won't know the answers to how many innocent civilians have been killed vs. terrorists until the conflict is over and investigators get into Gaza, but indications are that the number of women and children being killed is disproportional and, in my opinion, unacceptable.

Below is a portion of an interview with Dr. Adam Hamaway, a US Army veteran who's in Gaza right now, as he talks about what he is seeing.

 

[stevevw]

We really won't know the answers to how many innocent civilians have been killed vs. terrorists until the conflict is over and investigators get into Gaza, but indications are that the number of women and children being killed is disproportional and, in my opinion, unacceptable.

Below is a portion of an interview with Dr. Adam Hamaway, a US Army veteran who's in Gaza right now, as he talks about what he is seeing.

Any war is not good and any innocent death especially children is not good. In checking data on modern day warfare it seems that child deaths because of war and conflicts have dramatically increased all over the world. But especially in Islamist nations. Now around 1/5 of all children is affected by conflicts.

What I am interested in is why people are so hyper about the Gaza war and not other conflicts that have killed many more women and children and often their own. Like say Syria which is just next door to Isreal 20,000 children have been killed during the conflicts. I don't see Uni students as passionate as these other conflicts that kill more children and women.

I don't see the same passion about how these Islamist nations have been brutally murdering their own people let alone anyone who dares oppose their ideology. Women have been denies rights and raped for years and childrens rights have been denied as they brainwash them as children to hate the west and anyone who opposes them and then sent out to war or as a marty to then blow up other women and children indiscriminately.

Yes the Gaza war is horrible and should not be happening. But we have to remember who is causing all this. Its the same radicals that have been displaying this mentality for some time now and were at one stage targeting us. Remember Twin Towers, the Bali nightclub suicide bombings and the many random acts on innocent people just going about their life.

Hamas have within their power to stop all this, to stop holding innocent people as hostages and human targets. Because that is what they are like, evil that they would put a child in front of them and be willing to let them die for their deranged ideology. No we don't want people like that having any power and the sooner they are gone completely the better.

 

[Robban]

Any war is not good and any innocent death especially children is not good. In checking data on modern day warfare it seems that child deaths because of war and conflicts have dramatically increased all over the world. But especially in Islamist nations. Now around 1/5 of all children is affected by conflicts.

What I am interested in is why people are so hyper about the Gaza war and not other conflicts that have killed many more women and children and often their own. Like say Syria which is just next door to Isreal 20,000 children have been killed during the conflicts. I don't see Uni students as passionate as these other conflicts that kill more children and women.

I don't see the same passion about how these Islamist nations have been brutally murdering their own people let alone anyone who dares oppose their ideology. Women have been denies rights and raped for years and childrens rights have been denied as they brainwash them as children to hate the west and anyone who opposes them and then sent out to war or as a marty to then blow up other women and children indiscriminately.

Yes the Gaza war is horrible and should not be happening. But we have to remember who is causing all this. Its the same radicals that have been displaying this mentality for some time now and were at one stage targeting us. Remember Twin Towers, the Bali nightclub suicide bombings and the many random acts on innocent people just going about their life.

Hamas have within their power to stop all this, to stop holding innocent people as hostages and human targets. Because that is what they are like, evil that they would put a child in front of them and be willing to let them die for their deranged ideology. No we don't want people like that having any power and the sooner they are gone completely the better.

Nothing has changed since Kain murdered his brother,

other than weaponry,
lies, corruption, greed and jealousy abound.

Yes, finding some form of consolation does help but it does not change this worlds falseness.

Truth cannot die ,
therefore anyone who is one with truth cannot die, they pass on, still active in the world but even moreso.